Members Eric Stahl Posted May 29, 2014 Members Share Posted May 29, 2014 Revelation 16:8-9,10-11 8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. How hot will the sun become? Isaiah 30:25-26 25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall. 26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, (WHEN) in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound. (SOON) If the sun is 7 times stronger then now and the reflection off the moon is as bright as the sun today, why would darkness be a judgment? Where will it be dark? Daniel 11:36,45 36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him. During the tribulation the antichrist will have his seat of power in Israel. How will God cause darkness on Israel? Habakkuk 3:11-13 11The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear. 12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger. 13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah. Isaiah 60:1-2 1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. 2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. When the sun becomes 7 times stronger God will cause a permanent solar eclipse over the people of Israel to save them from the sun. The eclipse will last during the kingdom age. Isaiah 60:19-22 19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. 20Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. 21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. When the sun and moon stand still over Israel for over 1000 years, America will become an ice cap. America is prOBably the kingdom of antichrist since it is judged with darkness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Arbo Posted May 29, 2014 Members Share Posted May 29, 2014 When the sun and moon stand still over Israel for over 1000 years, America will become an ice cap. America is prOBably the kingdom of antichrist since it is judged with darkness! Are the other countries of North and South America also his kingdom, or does the U.S. need to conquer them first? People have been trying to fit the U.S. into Biblical prophecy for years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Salyan Posted May 29, 2014 Moderators Share Posted May 29, 2014 Isaiah 60:1-2 1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. 2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. When the sun becomes 7 times stronger God will cause a permanent solar eclipse over the people of Israel to save them from the sun. The eclipse will last during the kingdom age. Isaiah 60:19-22 19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. 20Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. 21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. Isaiah 60:1-3 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. This passage speaks of Gentiles coming to the light - 'thy light'. Whose light is it? The light of the Lord? Or the light of the people of God reflecting His light? (Matt. 5:14-16) It doesn't make sense that 'thy light' is the physical sun when it is spoken of as relating to a person or people. One doesn't speak of the light of the sun as 'thy light'. The verses immediately prior say: "And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in JacOB, saith the LORD. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever." Thus, we see that the context is speaking of the Redeemer, Who is spoken of later by Simeon under the influence of the Holy Spirit as being "A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel." Luke 2:32 The clear reading of this passage would appear to be that the light spoken of in Isaiah 60 is a spiritual light - specifically, the Messiah. It should not be applied to the literal sun, and therefore is not speaking of a literal eclipse. During the tribulation the antichrist will have his seat of power in Israel. When the sun and moon stand still over Israel for over 1000 years, America will become an ice cap. America is prOBably the kingdom of antichrist since it is judged with darkness! How can there be a kingdom of antichrist during the Millennium, when he has already been cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20)? Satan is bound for 1000 years in the bottomless pit and will later be loosed only to be thrown finally into the lake of fire (Rev. 20); there appears to be no release from the lake of fire - it is a final destination. There is also no mention of an 'alternate kingdom' to that of the Lord during the Millennium - the rebellion is at the end, not throughout - as far as we are told. Eric, we're not told much about the end time - at least not as much as we'd sometimes like to know! We can think on what God has told us, but we don't know everything and aren't told everything. We need to be content with what He has revealed, and not try to scry details out of the text that just aren't there. (2 Peter 1:20) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted May 29, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 29, 2014 Isaiah 60:1-3 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. This passage speaks of Gentiles coming to the light - 'thy light'. Whose light is it? The light of the Lord? Or the light of the people of God reflecting His light? (Matt. 5:14-16) It doesn't make sense that 'thy light' is the physical sun when it is spoken of as relating to a person or people. One doesn't speak of the light of the sun as 'thy light'. The verses immediately prior say: "And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in JacOB, saith the LORD. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever." Thus, we see that the context is speaking of the Redeemer, Who is spoken of later by Simeon under the influence of the Holy Spirit as being "A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel." Luke 2:32 The clear reading of this passage would appear to be that the light spoken of in Isaiah 60 is a spiritual light - specifically, the Messiah. It should not be applied to the literal sun, and therefore is not speaking of a literal eclipse. How can there be a kingdom of antichrist during the Millennium, when he has already been cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20)? Satan is bound for 1000 years in the bottomless pit and will later be loosed only to be thrown finally into the lake of fire (Rev. 20); there appears to be no release from the lake of fire - it is a final destination. There is also no mention of an 'alternate kingdom' to that of the Lord during the Millennium - the rebellion is at the end, not throughout - as far as we are told. Eric, we're not told much about the end time - at least not as much as we'd sometimes like to know! We can think on what God has told us, but we don't know everything and aren't told everything. We need to be content with what He has revealed, and not try to scry details out of the text that just aren't there. (2 Peter 1:20) Salyan, When the sun and moon stay over Israel in the tribulation and the kingdom age they won't give light because the sun is hidden behind the moon in a permanent solar eclipse. Israel will see the light of Jesus coming to save them with the anointed saints. During the kingdom it will be the light of Jesus that shines down on Israel. The kingdom of antichrist will form at the beginning of the tribulation when God cause everyone that heard the gospel truth but rejected Jesus to believe the lie of antichrist 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted May 29, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 29, 2014 Are the other countries of North and South America also his kingdom, or does the U.S. need to conquer them first? People have been trying to fit the U.S. into Biblical prophecy for years... Arbo, The kingdom of antichrist will form at the beginning of the tribulation when God cause everyone that heard the gospel truth but rejected Jesus to believe the lie of antichrist 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Salyan Posted May 29, 2014 Moderators Share Posted May 29, 2014 Salyan, When the sun and moon stay over Israel in the tribulation and the kingdom age they won't give light because the sun is hidden behind the moon in a permanent solar eclipse. Israel will see the light of Jesus coming to save them with the anointed saints. During the kingdom it will be the light of Jesus that shines down on Israel. The kingdom of antichrist will form at the beginning of the tribulation when God cause everyone that heard the gospel truth but rejected Jesus to believe the lie of antichrist 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Eric, the verses you used to prove that idea are referring to spiritual light, and there is no mention of physical light therein. You're adding to Scriptures to try to prove an eclipse out of it. There is no mention in Scripture of the kingdom of antichrist surviving the Tribulation. It will die with him, and with it. I know this is an old hOBby horse of yours, and I'm unlikely to change your mind. I just wanted to do some Scriptural straightening for the sake of our newer folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Genevanpreacher Posted May 29, 2014 Members Share Posted May 29, 2014 Are the other countries of North and South America also his kingdom, or does the U.S. need to conquer them first? People have been trying to fit the U.S. into Biblical prophecy for years... JerUSAlem? There it is! I am sure that is not the answer you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted May 30, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 30, 2014 Eric, the verses you used to prove that idea are referring to spiritual light, and there is no mention of physical light therein. You're adding to Scriptures to try to prove an eclipse out of it. There is no mention in Scripture of the kingdom of antichrist surviving the Tribulation. It will die with him, and with it. I know this is an old hOBby horse of yours, and I'm unlikely to change your mind. I just wanted to do some Scriptural straightening for the sake of our newer folk. Salyan, The kingdom of antichrist called Babylon is destroyed at the end of the tribulation when a great earthquake causes all the islands to sink in the sea and the mountains to go away. Revelation 16:18-19 What makes you think the light spoken of in Isaiah 60 is not actual light? Matthew 24:27 tells us Jesus light will shine as lightning when he comes. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Genevanpreacher Posted May 30, 2014 Members Share Posted May 30, 2014 Salyan, The kingdom of antichrist called Babylon is destroyed at the end of the tribulation when a great earthquake causes all the islands to sink in the sea and the mountains to go away. Revelation 16:18-19 What makes you think the light spoken of in Isaiah 60 is not actual light? Matthew 24:27 tells us Jesus light will shine as lightning when he comes. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Remember this - 'every eye shall behold him'. I think that is in reference to the quickness of the Lords appearing, not anything to do with light, but that 'all at once' or 'in the twinkling of an eye'. I could be wrong. But that is what I always thought about that verse. And Luke 21:28 - 'Look up'. That is where our redemption is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted May 30, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 30, 2014 Remember this - 'every eye shall behold him'. I think that is in reference to the quickness of the Lords appearing, not anything to do with light, but that 'all at once' or 'in the twinkling of an eye'. I could be wrong. But that is what I always thought about that verse. And Luke 21:28 - 'Look up'. That is where our redemption is! Genevanpreacher, 2 Timothy 4:1 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; The world will see the light of Jesus when he comes at the rapture because he shines as the sun in its strength Revelation 1:16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Genevanpreacher Posted May 30, 2014 Members Share Posted May 30, 2014 Genevanpreacher, 2 Timothy 4:1 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; The world will see the light of Jesus when he comes at the rapture because he shines as the sun in its strength Revelation 1:16. I do not agree that he will be shining when he comes, just because it does not say it, nor imply it, in the scriptures.(I know, 'the brightness of his coming', please. That is not about Jesus 'glow'.) UNLESS there is a scripture verse that says it and I can't remember it, of course. Do you have one? I do agree with Salyan with regards to Isaiah 60 though. It is not in reference to a 'real' light, but a 'view of Gods righteousness' from witnesses of the world, that Gods blessings are upon his people, and that those that are in 'darkness' will notice them. I don't think it is a lack of the sunshine that is the darkness either. Remember Luke 1:79? And Luke 2:30-32? John 12:35,36? I know, I know, those are from the Gospels, and that is only to the Jews... maybe it is and maybe it ain't, yet there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted May 31, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2014 I do not agree that he will be shining when he comes, just because it does not say it, nor imply it, in the scriptures.(I know, 'the brightness of his coming', please. That is not about Jesus 'glow'.) UNLESS there is a scripture verse that says it and I can't remember it, of course. Do you have one? I do agree with Salyan with regards to Isaiah 60 though. It is not in reference to a 'real' light, but a 'view of Gods righteousness' from witnesses of the world, that Gods blessings are upon his people, and that those that are in 'darkness' will notice them. I don't think it is a lack of the sunshine that is the darkness either. Remember Luke 1:79? And Luke 2:30-32? John 12:35,36? I know, I know, those are from the Gospels, and that is only to the Jews... maybe it is and maybe it ain't, yet there it is. Matthew 24:27 tells us Jesus light will shine as lightning when he comes. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Malachi 4:1-3 1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. Revelation 1:7-8,14-16 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beameup Posted May 31, 2014 Members Share Posted May 31, 2014 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. Matthew 17:1-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MountainChristian Posted May 31, 2014 Members Share Posted May 31, 2014 Eric you think the earth will stop rotating and the moon will halt its orbit? Will the earth halt its orbit of the sun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted May 31, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 31, 2014 Eric you think the earth will stop rotating and the moon will halt its orbit? Will the earth halt its orbit of the sun? MountainChristian, No, the moon and earth will continue to orbit the sun in the same orbit with the New Jerusalem between the moon and the earth in the shadow of the moon. On earth when you look up from Israel you will see the New Jerusalem lighted by the glory of Jesus. That is why the Gentiles will come to Israel and look up to see Jesus Isaiah 60:3. Isaiah 60:1-4 1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. 2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. 3And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. 4Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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