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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Why I Left The Pre-Trib Position


Ukulelemike

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The Gospels were not written to "the church", they were written to Israel.

If you want to read what is specifically written to "the church", read Paul's Epistles.

This is where the 4th Century Catholic church "went wrong" and continue to this very day.

Replacement Theology "remnants" are found throughout the Protestant demoninations as well.

There will be God's servants of the house of Israel (genetic Israelites) preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom during the Tribulation.

 

Invicta:


So we should tear the gospels out of our bibles?

 

 

you still don't get it do you?  There are more than one type of Gospel one for the kingdom and one for the body of Christ.

 

here is a link to an Independent Bible Believing Baptist there are three of these to listen to but they are not very long.

 

http://davereese.onwtw.net/ondemand/bible/index.html

If there were a possible link to Scripture, explaining the various types of Gospels, then I would look them up. I'm not interested in links to sermons.

 

Peter & Paul agreed on the Law of Moses - Jews are welcome to OBey it, but NOT for salvation. Of course the Jewish Christians continued to circumcise their children, OBey the commandments, etc, so that they would give no offence to the unconverted Jews.

Acts 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 and they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they OBserve no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

 

After Paul's arrest he was able to say:

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disOBedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. 21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. 22 Having therefore OBtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: 23 that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

 

Paul's Gospel preached to the Jews & Gentiles was exactlythe same.

 

But while you are making assertions about different Gospels, I looked up references to "gospel of" to find 31 exact matches.   - the gospel of the kingdom; the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; the gospel of the grace of God; the gospel of his Son; the gospel of Christ; the gospel of peace; the glorious gospel of Christ; the gospel of the uncircumcision ..... the gospel of the circumcision; the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ; the glorious gospel of the blessed God. How does "right division" carve up that lot?

 

You "right dividers" need to study the unity of Scripture - or just the Scripture - with a paradigm centred on Jesus, Lord & Christ. There is no other gospel for the Jews who rejected the Gospel, not were the Jews who welcomed the Gospel saved by another gospel. 

 

Paul's "offence" was preaching Jesus Christ as Lord to Jew & Gentile. 

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You are full of balony, mischaricterizing my post.

You should be rebuked on this forum by the moderators for using the term "heresy"  in this context.

You OBviously no nothing whatsoever about John's baptism in the context of Judiasm.

 

==================================================================================

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the

name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Gospel of the Circumcision

 

 

Actually I know everything about John's baptism, and it has NOTHING to do with Judaism!

To say that baptism was a 'washing' for Jews, is absolute ridiculous, and I am SURE others will 'back-u-up' with your 'learnin''.

Baptism in the context of Acts 2:38 is VERY easy to distinguish from any ceremonial 'washings'.

 

First off, the word 'remission' has nothing to do with the word 'forgiveness'. Luke, who OBviously wrote Acts, was a 'physician'.

He understood medical terminology as one. Remission being the 'putting away of sin' in one's life, and decreasing the acts of sinning. Just like modern day cancer going into remission, it's not gone but decreasing in power.

He wrote the word 'remission', and every born-again child of God since has understood it as such.

The baptism of John is very explicitly NOT as you claim, for the verses of scripture clearly, (without 'rightly dividing') explain that the people were confessing their sins that they had STOPPED doing before, to receive such public proclaiming of following God, because of Johns preaching of repentance. Look it up and read what John was asked by the soldiers and others who asked about baptism. They were to stop doing 'sins', in testimony of a change of heart on 'who' was REALLY God. 

 

So do not accuse me of using 'heresy' wrongly and that I should be 'disciplined' by the moderators.

It is you who have introduced the heretical belief of baptismal regeneration in a Baptist forum as if Baptists should believe this junk!   :amen:

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Actually I know everything about John's baptism, and it has NOTHING to do with Judaism!

To say that baptism was a 'washing' for Jews, is absolute ridiculous, and I am SURE others will 'back-u-up' with your 'learnin''.

Baptism in the context of Acts 2:38 is VERY easy to distinguish from any ceremonial 'washings'.

 

First off, the word 'remission' has nothing to do with the word 'forgiveness'. Luke, who OBviously wrote Acts, was a 'physician'.

He understood medical terminology as one. Remission being the 'putting away of sin' in one's life, and decreasing the acts of sinning. Just like modern day cancer going into remission, it's not gone but decreasing in power.

He wrote the word 'remission', and every born-again child of God since has understood it as such.

The baptism of John is very explicitly NOT as you claim, for the verses of scripture clearly, (without 'rightly dividing') explain that the people were confessing their sins that they had STOPPED doing before, to receive such public proclaiming of following God, because of Johns preaching of repentance. Look it up and read what John was asked by the soldiers and others who asked about baptism. They were to stop doing 'sins', in testimony of a change of heart on 'who' was REALLY God. 

So do not accuse me of using 'heresy' wrongly and that I should be 'disciplined' by the moderators. It is you who have introduced the heretical belief of baptismal regeneration in a Baptist forum, like the 'cults of christ'. :amen:

 

I could be wrong, but I think Beam is referring to the Jews at the time.  We know that it was the Jews, in that day, that were saved.  

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those brethren were a bit over board and extreme find the middel Biblical ground not their extreme interpretation.

 

Their teaching was if anything less extreme thgan some on here.  They invented the teaching so they should know best, anyways.

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I could be wrong, but I think Beam is referring to the Jews at the time.  We know that it was the Jews, in that day, that were saved.  

He knows what I mean, but prefers to throw the "heresy" word at me.  He should be rebuked.  Moderators?

 

Clearly these "remnants" of Replacement Theology confuse one's ability to think clearly and rightly-divide.

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If there were a possible link to Scripture, explaining the various types of Gospels, then I would look them up. I'm not interested in links to sermons.

 

Peter & Paul agreed on the Law of Moses - Jews are welcome to OBey it, but NOT for salvation. Of course the Jewish Christians continued to circumcise their children, OBey the commandments, etc, so that they would give no offence to the unconverted Jews.

Acts 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 and they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they OBserve no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

 

After Paul's arrest he was able to say:

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disOBedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. 21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. 22 Having therefore OBtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: 23 that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

 

Paul's Gospel preached to the Jews & Gentiles was exactlythe same.

 

But while you are making assertions about different Gospels, I looked up references to "gospel of" to find 31 exact matches.   - the gospel of the kingdom; the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; the gospel of the grace of God; the gospel of his Son; the gospel of Christ; the gospel of peace; the glorious gospel of Christ; the gospel of the uncircumcision ..... the gospel of the circumcision; the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ; the glorious gospel of the blessed God. How does "right division" carve up that lot?

 

You "right dividers" need to study the unity of Scripture - or just the Scripture - with a paradigm centred on Jesus, Lord & Christ. There is no other gospel for the Jews who rejected the Gospel, not were the Jews who welcomed the Gospel saved by another gospel.

 

Paul's "offence" was preaching Jesus Christ as Lord to Jew & Gentile. 

 

A very big AMEN Covenanter!

 

Maybe some here ought to look up the word 'church' in Acts? Saul was wreaking havoc on the church, was he not?

Now, if you believe the word of God, that means the Jews. I agree! 

Jews and the church!! Both one and the same instrument and tool of God! NOT Judaism and the church!!

 

No disrespect to Jewish descendants, but Judaism is a false doctrine invented by lost people, they just happened to be Jews.

 

I grew up with Jews, and they are the same as every other human, but lost is lost, no matter what race.

I went to one of their elementary schools.

I, as a child was treated very cruel by some of them, but loved extremely by others of them in my classes. 

They treated me the same as other schools I attended, and they are very human. (My multiple schools are a history in themselves.)

But, lost is lost, and when they get saved, they become the church!

Then, and now!

THAT is when they become the 'chosen people'!!

Israel was in the wilderness, but only the believing followers of God were allowed to survive!

THAT is the true Israel that the Lord God lead through the wilderness, not those who were rebellious and despised God and his authority!

Judaism is not of Christ Jesus, and he was not one of them.

Jesus was, is, and always shall be God in human form, and not capable of being a religious follower of Judaism.

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What should be rebuked is all this false teaching of differing gospels and wrongly dividing of the Word that seems to have become habitual.

 

What could have been a nice thread on the possible timing of a rapture or catching away as Mike put forth instead turned into a choice between reading jabs at Mike, false teachings and yet another thread where unscriptural dispensational nonsense takes over the topic.

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He knows what I mean, but prefers to throw the "heresy" word at me.  He should be rebuked.  Moderators?

 

Clearly these "remnants" of Replacement Theology confuse one's ability to think clearly and rightly-divide.

 

They are in a fix aren't they?

Not rebuke me, and it looks like they agree with me.

Rebuke me and it looks like they support baptismal regeneration.

 

I am not asking them to do anything to you.

 

I understand this is a forum.

You seem to think we should be following the 'church of christ' cult, and believe 'another gospel'.

Sorry bout your issue with just believing what you believe.

 

I am not telling you to believe me - 'or else!'.

 

I will do as they say, if they are going to get involved in a negative way towards me.

 

It's up to them, it is their forum.

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They are in a fix aren't they?

Not rebuke me, and it looks like they agree with me.

Rebuke me and it looks like they support baptismal regeneration.

 

 

"Baptismal Regeneration" is a phrase you seem stuck-on-repeating in an attempt to label me a "heretic".

even though you know that I never used that phrase.

If you don't like the verses that I posted then, simply change the words.  I'm sure the Geneva "translation"

reads differently than the King James and countless "other" translations.

You know full well  that I never used the term "baptismal regeneration", yet you continue to attach that label. 

Some might characterize such things as slanderous.

 

Now run along and try to find more "dirt" to throw at me

For example, so far: 

Since I simply mentioned "J. Vernon McGee", perhaps you can continue digging into statements made by J. Vernon McGee a half-century ago to somehow "attach" these to me.

Or perhaps try to "find dirt" about a "Biola University" that I did not attend, but you seem to insist that I did, in an attempt to back-up your accusations of "heresy".

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So you don't see heaven as perfect? Isaiah 14:12 You see the devil and his third not cast out of God's heaven? And what about when the devil went up to heaven and talked to God in JOB?

 

I must say, I've always assumed  the "good" in Genesis was the same as perfect. This is a new one to me. I need to think about that for awhile.

The abode of God known as the third heaven is perfect.  while the devil is cast out of God's abode he is in the universe and the earth.

 

Gods abode is separated from the universe by the firmament, also known as a heaven.  I do not see the universe nor our atmosphere, both known as heavens, as perfect, No.

 

Holy means perfect

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Their teaching was if anything less extreme thgan some on here.  They invented the teaching so they should know best, anyways.

No I don't think they invented dispensationalism they exploited it.

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If there were a possible link to Scripture, explaining the various types of Gospels, then I would look them up. I'm not interested in links to sermons.

 

Peter & Paul agreed on the Law of Moses - Jews are welcome to OBey it, but NOT for salvation. Of course the Jewish Christians continued to circumcise their children, OBey the commandments, etc, so that they would give no offence to the unconverted Jews.

Acts 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 and they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they OBserve no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

 

After Paul's arrest he was able to say:

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disOBedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. 21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. 22 Having therefore OBtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: 23 that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

 

Paul's Gospel preached to the Jews & Gentiles was exactlythe same.

 

But while you are making assertions about different Gospels, I looked up references to "gospel of" to find 31 exact matches.   - the gospel of the kingdom; the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; the gospel of the grace of God; the gospel of his Son; the gospel of Christ; the gospel of peace; the glorious gospel of Christ; the gospel of the uncircumcision ..... the gospel of the circumcision; the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ; the glorious gospel of the blessed God. How does "right division" carve up that lot?

 

You "right dividers" need to study the unity of Scripture - or just the Scripture - with a paradigm centred on Jesus, Lord & Christ. There is no other gospel for the Jews who rejected the Gospel, not were the Jews who welcomed the Gospel saved by another gospel.

 

Paul's "offence" was preaching Jesus Christ as Lord to Jew & Gentile. 

The gospel of grace is to be preached to both Jew and gentile alike.

 

The gospel of the kingdom was to be taught to Israel only.

 

Look up the term church of the wilderness or of the first born and let's see if you can identify them.

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What should be rebuked is all this false teaching of differing gospels and wrongly dividing of the Word that seems to have become habitual.

 

What could have been a nice thread on the possible timing of a rapture or catching away as Mike put forth instead turned into a choice between reading jabs at Mike, false teachings and yet another thread where unscriptural dispensational nonsense takes over the topic.

HEH. Mike's a big boy, though and he can handle a few jabs. Its actually been friendlier toward me than some I have experienced in the context. Hopefully I can get a bit of time in this evening and put out some more.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

"Baptismal Regeneration" is a phrase you seem stuck-on-repeating in an attempt to label me a "heretic".

even though you know that I never used that phrase.

If you don't like the verses that I posted then, simply change the words.  I'm sure the Geneva "translation"

reads differently than the King James and countless "other" translations.

You know full well  that I never used the term "baptismal regeneration", yet you continue to attach that label. 

Some might characterize such things as slanderous.

 

Now run along and try to find more "dirt" to throw at me

For example, so far: 

Since I simply mentioned "J. Vernon McGee", perhaps you can continue digging into statements made by J. Vernon McGee a half-century ago to somehow "attach" these to me.

Or perhaps try to "find dirt" about a "Biola University" that I did not attend, but you seem to insist that I did, in an attempt to back-up your accusations of "heresy".

 

So what!

You never used the phrase? What difference does that make?

 

Do you believe the 'Bible'? That word is not in the scriptures. Do you attend a 'Baptist Church'? That church name is not in the scriptures.

 

Do you comprehend terminology? Do you understand what baptismal regeneration is? I think you do. 

 

So what's your prOBlem? 

You don't have to use the 'name' of the false doctrine to believe it or teach it.

 

If you truly believe the stuff you said about 'washings' then you condemn yourself to this definition.

 

Alex Campbell and you agree. That is something I would not wish upon my worst enemy! Nor you. (you are not my enemy, and I do not think that.)

 

Alex 'converted' thousands of Baptists (in name only, OBviously!) church members to 'his' way of 'washing' for forgiveness of sins.

 

That was and still is heresy against the Baptist faith of the Holy Scriptures being our only rule and guide of faith, and Jesus Christ's death, burial, and resurrection being the fulfillment

of God's love for the whole world! 

 

One salvation for all!!

 

"One Lord, one faith, one baptism..." - Sound familiar??

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

A very big AMEN Covenanter!

Maybe some here ought to look up the word 'church' in Acts? Saul was wreaking havoc on the church, was he not?
Now, if you believe the word of God, that means the Jews. I agree!
Jews and the church!! Both one and the same instrument and tool of God! NOT Judaism and the church!!

No disrespect to Jewish descendants, but Judaism is a false doctrine invented by lost people, they just happened to be Jews.

I grew up with Jews, and they are the same as every other human, but lost is lost, no matter what race.
I went to one of their elementary schools.
I, as a child was treated very cruel by some of them, but loved extremely by others of them in my classes.
They treated me the same as other schools I attended, and they are very human. (My multiple schools are a history in themselves.)
But, lost is lost, and when they get saved, they become the church!
Then, and now!
THAT is when they become the 'chosen people'!!
Israel was in the wilderness, but only the believing followers of God were allowed to survive!
THAT is the true Israel that the Lord God lead through the wilderness, not those who were rebellious and despised God and his authority!
Judaism is not of Christ Jesus, and he was not one of them.
Jesus was, is, and always shall be God in human form, and not capable of being a religious follower of Judaism.

You are wrong, my friend, some are more lost than others....the Jews.

Mat 23:15
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.



Anishinaabe

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

You are wrong, my friend, some are more lost than others....the Jews.

Mat 23:15
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.



Anishinaabe

 

Yes, I hadn't thought of that. Good point!

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

So what!

You never used the phrase? What difference does that make?

 

Do you believe the 'Bible'? That word is not in the scriptures. Do you attend a 'Baptist Church'? That church name is not in the scriptures.

 

Do you comprehend terminology? Do you understand what baptismal regeneration is? I think you do. 

 

So what's your prOBlem? 

You don't have to use the 'name' of the false doctrine to believe it or teach it.

 

If you truly believe the stuff you said about 'washings' then you condemn yourself to this definition.

 

Alex Campbell and you agree. That is something I would not wish upon my worst enemy! Nor you. (you are not my enemy, and I do not think that.)

 

Alex 'converted' thousands of Baptists (in name only, OBviously!) church members to 'his' way of 'washing' for forgiveness of sins.

 

That was and still is heresy against the Baptist faith of the Holy Scriptures being our only rule and guide of faith, and Jesus Christ's death, burial, and resurrection being the fulfillment

of God's love for the whole world! 

 

One salvation for all!!

 

"One Lord, one faith, one baptism..." - Sound familiar??

Seriously, nothing you say "sounds familiar" or "makes sense" to me.  You have a vivid wild imagination, and blurt out all sorts of accusations.

On a more liberal forum, I might inquire what you were smoking, and suggest you put it down and "just say no". :)

Aparently it is a great effort on your part to read of John's Baptism in the River Jordan and Jesus' baptism by John.  It would appear that it is a great effort yielding small results in comprehension.

Perhaps the real prOBlem likes in you lack of proper research and understanding into the subject of Baptism used throughout the Bible.  Rather than having a clear understanding of it yourself, you seem project your confusion and misunderstanding onto others?

 

Perhaps the Geneva Bible that you use does not have a concordance where you can do a word-search.  That would be a shame, but understandable.  The King James has a plethora of free helps.

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You are wrong, my friend, some are more lost than others....the Jews.

Mat 23:15
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.



Anishinaabe

Wrong - Jesus denounced the Jewish leaders who heard his teaching, saw his miracles & understood who he was, yet rejected him. He warned "this generation" repeatedly of their lost state, & warned them that all they trusted in would be destroyed - Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

The self curse the Jews called on themselves - Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children -  was cancelled for those who repented by the Gospel preached at Pentecost - For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

God's wrath against "this generation" that rejected him AND the Gospel of salvation ended with the AD 70 destruction he prophesied at Olivet. Paul asserts - Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. Stephen declares them uncircumcised - Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

 

John in Rev. 7 sees God's Jewish servants (144,000) sealed before the wrath of God falls & later sees them as "firstfruits." Believing Jews were delivered from Jerusalem before the AD 70 destruction. He also sees Jews numbered with believers in glory.  Every kindred is a tribal relationship. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

The Jews are welcomed by the Gospel. Many thousands were saved before the destruction, in Israel and around the Roman world & beyond - including Babylon & Ethiopia. How many millions of believers of Jewish ancestry is impossible to calculate - they are generally rejected by their family & community & are absorbed into the church. And in the church they are numbered as one people of God - a relationship established in the OT promises, claimed for the church & seen gloriously in the NH&NE where ALL the promises of God to Israel are fulfilled for Abraham's seed & all families on earth. 

 

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.    

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Wrong - Jesus denounced the Jewish leaders who heard his teaching, saw his miracles & understood who he was, yet rejected him. He warned "this generation" repeatedly of their lost state, & warned them that all they trusted in would be destroyed - Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The self curse the Jews called on themselves - Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children - was cancelled for those who repented by the Gospel preached at Pentecost - For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

God's wrath against "this generation" that rejected him AND the Gospel of salvation ended with the AD 70 destruction he prophesied at Olivet. Paul asserts - Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. Stephen declares them uncircumcised - Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

John in Rev. 7 sees God's Jewish servants (144,000) sealed before the wrath of God falls & later sees them as "firstfruits." Believing Jews were delivered from Jerusalem before the AD 70 destruction. He also sees Jews numbered with believers in glory. Every kindred is a tribal relationship. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The Jews are welcomed by the Gospel. Many thousands were saved before the destruction, in Israel and around the Roman world & beyond - including Babylon & Ethiopia. How many millions of believers of Jewish ancestry is impossible to calculate - they are generally rejected by their family & community & are absorbed into the church. And in the church they are numbered as one people of God - a relationship established in the OT promises, claimed for the church & seen gloriously in the NH&NE where ALL the promises of God to Israel are fulfilled for Abraham's seed & all families on earth.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

There is no such thing as "Jewish Ancestry"
There are Hebrews.


Anishinaabe

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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
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      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
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    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
      Peter could have had a ham sandwich in Acts 2, but he did not know it till later, by revelation. But this has nothing to do with 1John 2;23 and those 10 added words in italics. Where did they get them? Did the violate Pro. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Where did they get this advance revelation? Was it from man, God or the devil?
        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
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    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
      BUT THE LAW OF MOSES DID DEMAND MY LIFE
      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
      BUT A DREAM HE RECEIVED ENDED ALL FEARS
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
      BUT HEROD THAT DEVIL SOUGHT FOR HIS SOUL
      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
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