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Why I Left The Pre-Trib Position


Ukulelemike

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The Gospels were not written to "the church", they were written to Israel.

If you want to read what is specifically written to "the church", read Paul's Epistles.

This is where the 4th Century Catholic church "went wrong" and continue to this very day.

Replacement Theology "remnants" are found throughout the Protestant demoninations as well.

There will be God's servants of the house of Israel (genetic Israelites) preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom during the Tribulation.

 

Invicta:


So we should tear the gospels out of our bibles?

 

 

you still don't get it do you?  There are more than one type of Gospel one for the kingdom and one for the body of Christ.

 

here is a link to an Independent Bible Believing Baptist there are three of these to listen to but they are not very long.

 

http://davereese.onwtw.net/ondemand/bible/index.html

If there were a possible link to Scripture, explaining the various types of Gospels, then I would look them up. I'm not interested in links to sermons.

 

Peter & Paul agreed on the Law of Moses - Jews are welcome to OBey it, but NOT for salvation. Of course the Jewish Christians continued to circumcise their children, OBey the commandments, etc, so that they would give no offence to the unconverted Jews.

Acts 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 and they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they OBserve no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

 

After Paul's arrest he was able to say:

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disOBedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. 21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. 22 Having therefore OBtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: 23 that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

 

Paul's Gospel preached to the Jews & Gentiles was exactlythe same.

 

But while you are making assertions about different Gospels, I looked up references to "gospel of" to find 31 exact matches.   - the gospel of the kingdom; the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; the gospel of the grace of God; the gospel of his Son; the gospel of Christ; the gospel of peace; the glorious gospel of Christ; the gospel of the uncircumcision ..... the gospel of the circumcision; the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ; the glorious gospel of the blessed God. How does "right division" carve up that lot?

 

You "right dividers" need to study the unity of Scripture - or just the Scripture - with a paradigm centred on Jesus, Lord & Christ. There is no other gospel for the Jews who rejected the Gospel, not were the Jews who welcomed the Gospel saved by another gospel. 

 

Paul's "offence" was preaching Jesus Christ as Lord to Jew & Gentile. 

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You are full of balony, mischaricterizing my post.

You should be rebuked on this forum by the moderators for using the term "heresy"  in this context.

You OBviously no nothing whatsoever about John's baptism in the context of Judiasm.

 

==================================================================================

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the

name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Gospel of the Circumcision

 

 

Actually I know everything about John's baptism, and it has NOTHING to do with Judaism!

To say that baptism was a 'washing' for Jews, is absolute ridiculous, and I am SURE others will 'back-u-up' with your 'learnin''.

Baptism in the context of Acts 2:38 is VERY easy to distinguish from any ceremonial 'washings'.

 

First off, the word 'remission' has nothing to do with the word 'forgiveness'. Luke, who OBviously wrote Acts, was a 'physician'.

He understood medical terminology as one. Remission being the 'putting away of sin' in one's life, and decreasing the acts of sinning. Just like modern day cancer going into remission, it's not gone but decreasing in power.

He wrote the word 'remission', and every born-again child of God since has understood it as such.

The baptism of John is very explicitly NOT as you claim, for the verses of scripture clearly, (without 'rightly dividing') explain that the people were confessing their sins that they had STOPPED doing before, to receive such public proclaiming of following God, because of Johns preaching of repentance. Look it up and read what John was asked by the soldiers and others who asked about baptism. They were to stop doing 'sins', in testimony of a change of heart on 'who' was REALLY God. 

 

So do not accuse me of using 'heresy' wrongly and that I should be 'disciplined' by the moderators.

It is you who have introduced the heretical belief of baptismal regeneration in a Baptist forum as if Baptists should believe this junk!   :amen:

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Actually I know everything about John's baptism, and it has NOTHING to do with Judaism!

To say that baptism was a 'washing' for Jews, is absolute ridiculous, and I am SURE others will 'back-u-up' with your 'learnin''.

Baptism in the context of Acts 2:38 is VERY easy to distinguish from any ceremonial 'washings'.

 

First off, the word 'remission' has nothing to do with the word 'forgiveness'. Luke, who OBviously wrote Acts, was a 'physician'.

He understood medical terminology as one. Remission being the 'putting away of sin' in one's life, and decreasing the acts of sinning. Just like modern day cancer going into remission, it's not gone but decreasing in power.

He wrote the word 'remission', and every born-again child of God since has understood it as such.

The baptism of John is very explicitly NOT as you claim, for the verses of scripture clearly, (without 'rightly dividing') explain that the people were confessing their sins that they had STOPPED doing before, to receive such public proclaiming of following God, because of Johns preaching of repentance. Look it up and read what John was asked by the soldiers and others who asked about baptism. They were to stop doing 'sins', in testimony of a change of heart on 'who' was REALLY God. 

So do not accuse me of using 'heresy' wrongly and that I should be 'disciplined' by the moderators. It is you who have introduced the heretical belief of baptismal regeneration in a Baptist forum, like the 'cults of christ'. :amen:

 

I could be wrong, but I think Beam is referring to the Jews at the time.  We know that it was the Jews, in that day, that were saved.  

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those brethren were a bit over board and extreme find the middel Biblical ground not their extreme interpretation.

 

Their teaching was if anything less extreme thgan some on here.  They invented the teaching so they should know best, anyways.

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I could be wrong, but I think Beam is referring to the Jews at the time.  We know that it was the Jews, in that day, that were saved.  

He knows what I mean, but prefers to throw the "heresy" word at me.  He should be rebuked.  Moderators?

 

Clearly these "remnants" of Replacement Theology confuse one's ability to think clearly and rightly-divide.

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If there were a possible link to Scripture, explaining the various types of Gospels, then I would look them up. I'm not interested in links to sermons.

 

Peter & Paul agreed on the Law of Moses - Jews are welcome to OBey it, but NOT for salvation. Of course the Jewish Christians continued to circumcise their children, OBey the commandments, etc, so that they would give no offence to the unconverted Jews.

Acts 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 and they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they OBserve no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

 

After Paul's arrest he was able to say:

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disOBedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. 21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. 22 Having therefore OBtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: 23 that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

 

Paul's Gospel preached to the Jews & Gentiles was exactlythe same.

 

But while you are making assertions about different Gospels, I looked up references to "gospel of" to find 31 exact matches.   - the gospel of the kingdom; the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; the gospel of the grace of God; the gospel of his Son; the gospel of Christ; the gospel of peace; the glorious gospel of Christ; the gospel of the uncircumcision ..... the gospel of the circumcision; the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ; the glorious gospel of the blessed God. How does "right division" carve up that lot?

 

You "right dividers" need to study the unity of Scripture - or just the Scripture - with a paradigm centred on Jesus, Lord & Christ. There is no other gospel for the Jews who rejected the Gospel, not were the Jews who welcomed the Gospel saved by another gospel.

 

Paul's "offence" was preaching Jesus Christ as Lord to Jew & Gentile. 

 

A very big AMEN Covenanter!

 

Maybe some here ought to look up the word 'church' in Acts? Saul was wreaking havoc on the church, was he not?

Now, if you believe the word of God, that means the Jews. I agree! 

Jews and the church!! Both one and the same instrument and tool of God! NOT Judaism and the church!!

 

No disrespect to Jewish descendants, but Judaism is a false doctrine invented by lost people, they just happened to be Jews.

 

I grew up with Jews, and they are the same as every other human, but lost is lost, no matter what race.

I went to one of their elementary schools.

I, as a child was treated very cruel by some of them, but loved extremely by others of them in my classes. 

They treated me the same as other schools I attended, and they are very human. (My multiple schools are a history in themselves.)

But, lost is lost, and when they get saved, they become the church!

Then, and now!

THAT is when they become the 'chosen people'!!

Israel was in the wilderness, but only the believing followers of God were allowed to survive!

THAT is the true Israel that the Lord God lead through the wilderness, not those who were rebellious and despised God and his authority!

Judaism is not of Christ Jesus, and he was not one of them.

Jesus was, is, and always shall be God in human form, and not capable of being a religious follower of Judaism.

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What should be rebuked is all this false teaching of differing gospels and wrongly dividing of the Word that seems to have become habitual.

 

What could have been a nice thread on the possible timing of a rapture or catching away as Mike put forth instead turned into a choice between reading jabs at Mike, false teachings and yet another thread where unscriptural dispensational nonsense takes over the topic.

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He knows what I mean, but prefers to throw the "heresy" word at me.  He should be rebuked.  Moderators?

 

Clearly these "remnants" of Replacement Theology confuse one's ability to think clearly and rightly-divide.

 

They are in a fix aren't they?

Not rebuke me, and it looks like they agree with me.

Rebuke me and it looks like they support baptismal regeneration.

 

I am not asking them to do anything to you.

 

I understand this is a forum.

You seem to think we should be following the 'church of christ' cult, and believe 'another gospel'.

Sorry bout your issue with just believing what you believe.

 

I am not telling you to believe me - 'or else!'.

 

I will do as they say, if they are going to get involved in a negative way towards me.

 

It's up to them, it is their forum.

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They are in a fix aren't they?

Not rebuke me, and it looks like they agree with me.

Rebuke me and it looks like they support baptismal regeneration.

 

 

"Baptismal Regeneration" is a phrase you seem stuck-on-repeating in an attempt to label me a "heretic".

even though you know that I never used that phrase.

If you don't like the verses that I posted then, simply change the words.  I'm sure the Geneva "translation"

reads differently than the King James and countless "other" translations.

You know full well  that I never used the term "baptismal regeneration", yet you continue to attach that label. 

Some might characterize such things as slanderous.

 

Now run along and try to find more "dirt" to throw at me

For example, so far: 

Since I simply mentioned "J. Vernon McGee", perhaps you can continue digging into statements made by J. Vernon McGee a half-century ago to somehow "attach" these to me.

Or perhaps try to "find dirt" about a "Biola University" that I did not attend, but you seem to insist that I did, in an attempt to back-up your accusations of "heresy".

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So you don't see heaven as perfect? Isaiah 14:12 You see the devil and his third not cast out of God's heaven? And what about when the devil went up to heaven and talked to God in JOB?

 

I must say, I've always assumed  the "good" in Genesis was the same as perfect. This is a new one to me. I need to think about that for awhile.

The abode of God known as the third heaven is perfect.  while the devil is cast out of God's abode he is in the universe and the earth.

 

Gods abode is separated from the universe by the firmament, also known as a heaven.  I do not see the universe nor our atmosphere, both known as heavens, as perfect, No.

 

Holy means perfect

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Their teaching was if anything less extreme thgan some on here.  They invented the teaching so they should know best, anyways.

No I don't think they invented dispensationalism they exploited it.

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If there were a possible link to Scripture, explaining the various types of Gospels, then I would look them up. I'm not interested in links to sermons.

 

Peter & Paul agreed on the Law of Moses - Jews are welcome to OBey it, but NOT for salvation. Of course the Jewish Christians continued to circumcise their children, OBey the commandments, etc, so that they would give no offence to the unconverted Jews.

Acts 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 and they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they OBserve no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

 

After Paul's arrest he was able to say:

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disOBedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. 21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me. 22 Having therefore OBtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: 23 that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

 

Paul's Gospel preached to the Jews & Gentiles was exactlythe same.

 

But while you are making assertions about different Gospels, I looked up references to "gospel of" to find 31 exact matches.   - the gospel of the kingdom; the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; the gospel of the grace of God; the gospel of his Son; the gospel of Christ; the gospel of peace; the glorious gospel of Christ; the gospel of the uncircumcision ..... the gospel of the circumcision; the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ; the glorious gospel of the blessed God. How does "right division" carve up that lot?

 

You "right dividers" need to study the unity of Scripture - or just the Scripture - with a paradigm centred on Jesus, Lord & Christ. There is no other gospel for the Jews who rejected the Gospel, not were the Jews who welcomed the Gospel saved by another gospel.

 

Paul's "offence" was preaching Jesus Christ as Lord to Jew & Gentile. 

The gospel of grace is to be preached to both Jew and gentile alike.

 

The gospel of the kingdom was to be taught to Israel only.

 

Look up the term church of the wilderness or of the first born and let's see if you can identify them.

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What should be rebuked is all this false teaching of differing gospels and wrongly dividing of the Word that seems to have become habitual.

 

What could have been a nice thread on the possible timing of a rapture or catching away as Mike put forth instead turned into a choice between reading jabs at Mike, false teachings and yet another thread where unscriptural dispensational nonsense takes over the topic.

HEH. Mike's a big boy, though and he can handle a few jabs. Its actually been friendlier toward me than some I have experienced in the context. Hopefully I can get a bit of time in this evening and put out some more.

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"Baptismal Regeneration" is a phrase you seem stuck-on-repeating in an attempt to label me a "heretic".

even though you know that I never used that phrase.

If you don't like the verses that I posted then, simply change the words.  I'm sure the Geneva "translation"

reads differently than the King James and countless "other" translations.

You know full well  that I never used the term "baptismal regeneration", yet you continue to attach that label. 

Some might characterize such things as slanderous.

 

Now run along and try to find more "dirt" to throw at me

For example, so far: 

Since I simply mentioned "J. Vernon McGee", perhaps you can continue digging into statements made by J. Vernon McGee a half-century ago to somehow "attach" these to me.

Or perhaps try to "find dirt" about a "Biola University" that I did not attend, but you seem to insist that I did, in an attempt to back-up your accusations of "heresy".

 

So what!

You never used the phrase? What difference does that make?

 

Do you believe the 'Bible'? That word is not in the scriptures. Do you attend a 'Baptist Church'? That church name is not in the scriptures.

 

Do you comprehend terminology? Do you understand what baptismal regeneration is? I think you do. 

 

So what's your prOBlem? 

You don't have to use the 'name' of the false doctrine to believe it or teach it.

 

If you truly believe the stuff you said about 'washings' then you condemn yourself to this definition.

 

Alex Campbell and you agree. That is something I would not wish upon my worst enemy! Nor you. (you are not my enemy, and I do not think that.)

 

Alex 'converted' thousands of Baptists (in name only, OBviously!) church members to 'his' way of 'washing' for forgiveness of sins.

 

That was and still is heresy against the Baptist faith of the Holy Scriptures being our only rule and guide of faith, and Jesus Christ's death, burial, and resurrection being the fulfillment

of God's love for the whole world! 

 

One salvation for all!!

 

"One Lord, one faith, one baptism..." - Sound familiar??

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A very big AMEN Covenanter!

Maybe some here ought to look up the word 'church' in Acts? Saul was wreaking havoc on the church, was he not?
Now, if you believe the word of God, that means the Jews. I agree!
Jews and the church!! Both one and the same instrument and tool of God! NOT Judaism and the church!!

No disrespect to Jewish descendants, but Judaism is a false doctrine invented by lost people, they just happened to be Jews.

I grew up with Jews, and they are the same as every other human, but lost is lost, no matter what race.
I went to one of their elementary schools.
I, as a child was treated very cruel by some of them, but loved extremely by others of them in my classes.
They treated me the same as other schools I attended, and they are very human. (My multiple schools are a history in themselves.)
But, lost is lost, and when they get saved, they become the church!
Then, and now!
THAT is when they become the 'chosen people'!!
Israel was in the wilderness, but only the believing followers of God were allowed to survive!
THAT is the true Israel that the Lord God lead through the wilderness, not those who were rebellious and despised God and his authority!
Judaism is not of Christ Jesus, and he was not one of them.
Jesus was, is, and always shall be God in human form, and not capable of being a religious follower of Judaism.

You are wrong, my friend, some are more lost than others....the Jews.

Mat 23:15
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.



Anishinaabe

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You are wrong, my friend, some are more lost than others....the Jews.

Mat 23:15
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.



Anishinaabe

 

Yes, I hadn't thought of that. Good point!

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So what!

You never used the phrase? What difference does that make?

 

Do you believe the 'Bible'? That word is not in the scriptures. Do you attend a 'Baptist Church'? That church name is not in the scriptures.

 

Do you comprehend terminology? Do you understand what baptismal regeneration is? I think you do. 

 

So what's your prOBlem? 

You don't have to use the 'name' of the false doctrine to believe it or teach it.

 

If you truly believe the stuff you said about 'washings' then you condemn yourself to this definition.

 

Alex Campbell and you agree. That is something I would not wish upon my worst enemy! Nor you. (you are not my enemy, and I do not think that.)

 

Alex 'converted' thousands of Baptists (in name only, OBviously!) church members to 'his' way of 'washing' for forgiveness of sins.

 

That was and still is heresy against the Baptist faith of the Holy Scriptures being our only rule and guide of faith, and Jesus Christ's death, burial, and resurrection being the fulfillment

of God's love for the whole world! 

 

One salvation for all!!

 

"One Lord, one faith, one baptism..." - Sound familiar??

Seriously, nothing you say "sounds familiar" or "makes sense" to me.  You have a vivid wild imagination, and blurt out all sorts of accusations.

On a more liberal forum, I might inquire what you were smoking, and suggest you put it down and "just say no". :)

Aparently it is a great effort on your part to read of John's Baptism in the River Jordan and Jesus' baptism by John.  It would appear that it is a great effort yielding small results in comprehension.

Perhaps the real prOBlem likes in you lack of proper research and understanding into the subject of Baptism used throughout the Bible.  Rather than having a clear understanding of it yourself, you seem project your confusion and misunderstanding onto others?

 

Perhaps the Geneva Bible that you use does not have a concordance where you can do a word-search.  That would be a shame, but understandable.  The King James has a plethora of free helps.

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You are wrong, my friend, some are more lost than others....the Jews.

Mat 23:15
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.



Anishinaabe

Wrong - Jesus denounced the Jewish leaders who heard his teaching, saw his miracles & understood who he was, yet rejected him. He warned "this generation" repeatedly of their lost state, & warned them that all they trusted in would be destroyed - Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

The self curse the Jews called on themselves - Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children -  was cancelled for those who repented by the Gospel preached at Pentecost - For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

God's wrath against "this generation" that rejected him AND the Gospel of salvation ended with the AD 70 destruction he prophesied at Olivet. Paul asserts - Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. Stephen declares them uncircumcised - Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

 

John in Rev. 7 sees God's Jewish servants (144,000) sealed before the wrath of God falls & later sees them as "firstfruits." Believing Jews were delivered from Jerusalem before the AD 70 destruction. He also sees Jews numbered with believers in glory.  Every kindred is a tribal relationship. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

The Jews are welcomed by the Gospel. Many thousands were saved before the destruction, in Israel and around the Roman world & beyond - including Babylon & Ethiopia. How many millions of believers of Jewish ancestry is impossible to calculate - they are generally rejected by their family & community & are absorbed into the church. And in the church they are numbered as one people of God - a relationship established in the OT promises, claimed for the church & seen gloriously in the NH&NE where ALL the promises of God to Israel are fulfilled for Abraham's seed & all families on earth. 

 

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.    

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Wrong - Jesus denounced the Jewish leaders who heard his teaching, saw his miracles & understood who he was, yet rejected him. He warned "this generation" repeatedly of their lost state, & warned them that all they trusted in would be destroyed - Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The self curse the Jews called on themselves - Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children - was cancelled for those who repented by the Gospel preached at Pentecost - For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

God's wrath against "this generation" that rejected him AND the Gospel of salvation ended with the AD 70 destruction he prophesied at Olivet. Paul asserts - Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. Stephen declares them uncircumcised - Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

John in Rev. 7 sees God's Jewish servants (144,000) sealed before the wrath of God falls & later sees them as "firstfruits." Believing Jews were delivered from Jerusalem before the AD 70 destruction. He also sees Jews numbered with believers in glory. Every kindred is a tribal relationship. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The Jews are welcomed by the Gospel. Many thousands were saved before the destruction, in Israel and around the Roman world & beyond - including Babylon & Ethiopia. How many millions of believers of Jewish ancestry is impossible to calculate - they are generally rejected by their family & community & are absorbed into the church. And in the church they are numbered as one people of God - a relationship established in the OT promises, claimed for the church & seen gloriously in the NH&NE where ALL the promises of God to Israel are fulfilled for Abraham's seed & all families on earth.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

There is no such thing as "Jewish Ancestry"
There are Hebrews.


Anishinaabe

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