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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Why I Left The Pre-Trib Position


Ukulelemike

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Sorry to "disappoint you", but I went to the Bible Institute of Los Angeles, (associated with J. Vernon McGee)

There were no corrupted versions of the Bible used at the Bible Institute of Los Angeles

The only other "versions" that I was aware of at that time was the (old) American Standard Version and the Revised Version ("reversed version"). 

I never even heard the mention of any "Geneva" Bible while at the Bible Institute of Los Angeles.

All my memorization of Scripture was in the King James, which the Holy Spirit uses to bring verses to my attention

to this very day, so I can find them on my hyper-linked on-line BLB.

 

Please answer #185 - "Do you think Acts 2:38 is a 'different' salvation than ours? I bet you think the 'Jews' had to be baptized in order to have 'remission' for their sins.

I do know people that believe your way, and that is what they believe."

 

Do you? And anyone else think this?

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Please answer #185 - "Do you think Acts 2:38 is a 'different' salvation than ours? I bet you think the 'Jews' had to be baptized in order to have 'remission' for their sins.

I do know people that believe your way, and that is what they believe."

 

Do you? And anyone else think this?

NATIONAL repentence is necessary for Israel to inherit the Kingdom on earth

That's what the 2nd coming is all about - to save the "remnant" of Israel from total annihilation.

The Gospel of the Kingdom was preached in Israel (by Jews) up until the destruction of the Temple.

The Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached by Jews (genetic Israel) during the Tribulation.

Here is an example of the preaching of the Kingdom (note: "times of refreshing" and "times of restitution" refer to the Millennium).

 

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,

when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 

And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Peter - Acts 3:19-21

 

I would advise careful reading of Romans chapter 11

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer,
and shall turn away ungodliness from JacOB:
Note: "JacOB" is used specifically to emphasize that these are genetically pure Hebrews and not some "spiritual Israel" gOBbly-gook.

 

 

Any Jew, at any time - as an individual - can accept Christ as their personal savior, thus granting them a heavenly reward.

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NATIONAL repentence is necessary for Israel to inherit the Kingdom on earth.
That's what the 2nd coming is all about - to save the "remnant" of Israel from total annilation.
The Gospel of the Kingdom was preached in Israel (by Jews) up until the destruction of the Temple.
The Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached by Jews (genetic Israel) during the Tribulation.
Here is an example of the preaching of the Kingdom (note: "times of refreshing" and "times of restitution" refer to the Millennium).


Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Peter - Acts 3:19-21

I would advise careful reading of Romans chapter 11
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer,
and shall turn away ungodliness from JacOB:
Note: "JacOB" is used specifically to emphasize that these are genetically pure Hebrews and not some "spiritual Israel" gOBbly-gook.


Any Jew, at any time - as an individual - can accept Christ as their personal savior, thus granting them a heavenly reward.

This is not one single shred of a hint of Scriptural Evidence, that Jews will be preaching Jesus during the Great Tribulation.

Anishinaabe

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Is there a correlation between the Kingdom of Heaven, Kingdom of God and the Gospel of the Circumcision, Gospel of the Uncircumcision?  

 

Schwenke, Beameup, what say you fellas?

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I wanted to start this post so as not to hijack another, and because some seem genuinely confused as to why an IFB pastor, particularly, would hold to what to them, (and to me once, as well) comes close to perhaps heresy or a departure of the faith.

 

Let me first say that despite how strongly we hold to such a doctrine, one way or the other, it is not what we might consider a fundamental, or it shouldn't be IMHO, and so, I have never seen it as a separation issue, though I know of some who do. I won't judge them-its between them and the Lord.

 

I was not raised IFB-it is something I turned to in my 20's. However, saved in a C&MA church and raised in various churches in my youth, one things they all agreed on was a pre-tribulation rapture position. So, since my youth this is what I believed.

 

Shorlty after I was married to my wife, back in about 2005-ish, my wife began to seriously question me concerning  the various positions on the timing of the catching away/rapture, whatever you want to call it. I explained to her all that I had ever been taught on the subject: The entire tribulation is the outpouring of God's wrath., so we won't go through it; it is for the Jews, the time of JacOB's trouble, so the church won't be there; Rev 4:1 seems to suggest the rapture as John sees a door open in heaven, (isn't Jesus called 'the door'?) and a voice that says "Come up hither", ( voice of the archangel?), so this must depict the rapture JUST before the tribulation is seen to begin; 1Thes 4  says, concerning the rapture, "Comfort one another with this', how can we find comfort in knowing we will go through great tribulation? And so on.

 

So, she began to lay out a pretty extensive argument both against the PreTR and for the PostT/PreWR Trib.  To go into it all, I haven't time. But I told her that, to make her happy, and because I want to please God before man, OR her, I would take what we have both said, and prayerfully study it out for myself. I took about a year looking it over in scripture and praying over it before I was finally willing to say that I had to agree with her. I knew I was taking a stand considerably different than 99% of other IFB's and might lost friends and associates over it, but I believed, as I do now, that pleasing God was more important. 

 

Some of what I found was, yes, Israel is the focus of the tribulation time. However, nowhere do we see that this must mean the church is not in existence. Jew have continued to live and thrive during the 'church age', and even with Israel being re-established as a nation, here we still are. The focus on them doesn't necessarily mean we can't be here any more-it is assumption, no more.

 

I have yet to hear anyone give a good explanation of what occurs in Rev 14:14. No, it isn't Jesus sitting on the church-we see Jesus in the clouds with a sickle, reaping His harvest. This takes place shortly after the seventh trumpet sounds, the last trumpet mentioned in scripture. We also see an angel shout to Him that the time has come.  Last trumpet, Jesus in the clouds, voice of an angel from the temple, (an archangel?). sounds like about all that is needed to match what occurs in 1Thes 4 return of Christ. NO, we don't see those who sleep in Christ coming with Him, but that doesn't mean they aren't there-it is the ONLY specific example we are given of Jesus reaping His harvest, and it is followed immediately by the outpouring of God's wrath. Apparently the entire tribulation is NOT God's wrath, because we see a specific time the wrath falls.  

 

I will continue when I have time. There's more! Please read, comment if you like, but again, this is not comprehensive, so no fights just yet.

 

I've reaped with a sickle and everything is cut. The wheat and the bull nettles, grass, etc is cut. The trash plants are cast aside by the followers who are gathering the wheat. The rapture only picks out a person here and a person there its not like reaping. Its like going into the tomato patch and only picking a few and leaving the rest. You can't do that with a sickle.

When we are raptured we don't need the Angels to fly us to heaven. We will have that wonderful Jesus' body (you know like his). We can fly away on a cloud, eat fish, walk through doors, and be touched or handled. That's one of the reasons why we are called the "Body of Christ" by Paul.

The Jews will need transportation in a destroyed world. So during the reaping Angels will fly them to Jesus' kingdom. (wheat to the barn) They are still human and need to live physically to enter this kingdom. That's why in Matthew 24:13 they have to be alive to enter the kingdom. It doesn't matter to us Christians because dead or alive we will be changed in a moment and we return with Jesus.

So I think this points to the second coming.

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Prophet
You have been poisoned by someone who wants you to think ONE THING about dispensationalism. Scofield is not the be-all/end-all of dispensationalism. If you had done your homework you would have known that. But you have not, and you will not. You simply have no idea as to what you are talking about in this matter. Not all dispensationalists believe in a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. I posted elsewhere some basic tenets of the mildest forms of dispensationalism - and you hold to those tenets.
Dispensationalism covers a huge range of varying beliefs just as the term "independent Baptist does." Yet you try to lump everything under one umbrella, when it simply does not fit. Your OBsession with Scofield has blinded you to broader aspects of what basic dispensationalism really is. Of course, if you were really honest with yourself, and did that homework, you would end up having to admit that, Yes, in fact, you are a dispensationalist. (Horrors!)

Moving on!

If dispensationalism has no strict definition, to you, then why defend it at all?
If it has no boundaries, and it isn't definable, then it doesn't exist.

Just say you are a Bible believer.

I am.

I don't hold to any Theological system.

I hold to the Scriptures.

This is easy logic to get......
If there are beliefs that are held by disps, that happen to line up with the Scriptures....guess what?
They may be believed by others who aren't disps.
They aren't then become "closet disps", or "partial disps", or anything else.
I don't believe all dispensational teaching is wrong, or I'd have to chuck my Bible.
I amen where you're right.
I don't go along where you're wrong.

I don't go along with any known Bible correctors. You understand this.

I love God's Word, and reserve the right to have him reveal it to me, without the restrictions placed on it by any system of men.

Anishinaabe

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HHmmmmm....

Wondering how we can have a rational discussion about dispensationalism when the people who are so decidedly against it don't even really know what it is????

 

I did not say that it does not have any "strict" definition or boundaries.  What I did say is that YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS, yet you keep ranting against it.  All you know about dispensationalism is what someone has poisoned you against it with, and they themselves don't know what it REALLY is. 

And like I said, you are not really willing to go find out for yourself either.

 

Yes, Scofield was wrong in some places...but he was right more often than he was wrong.  So why throw the baby out with the bathwater?  You already believe many of the things that Scofield taught!  Why not identify how close you are to what he taught, and then do what so many others of us have done, which is praise the Lord for where Scofield (or anyone else for that matter!) was right, and warn where he was wrong? 

 

This is nothing more than a childish, knee-jerk reaction to something that you have no idea as to what it really is.  You perceive it to be a threat.  It is not. 

HYPER- dispensationalism?  Yes.  That is a prOBlem.  I am against that.  It is taking a good thing too far. 

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NATIONAL repentence is necessary for Israel to inherit the Kingdom on earth

That's what the 2nd coming is all about - to save the "remnant" of Israel from total annilation.

The Gospel of the Kingdom was preached in Israel (by Jews) up until the destruction of the Temple.

The Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached by Jews (genetic Israel) during the Tribulation.

Here is an example of the preaching of the Kingdom (note: "times of refreshing" and "times of restitution" refer to the Millennium).

 

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,

when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 

And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Peter - Acts 3:19-21

 

I would advise careful reading of Romans chapter 11

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer,
and shall turn away ungodliness from JacOB:
Note: "JacOB" is used specifically to emphasize that these are genetically pure Hebrews and not some "spiritual Israel" gOBbly-gook.

 

 

Any Jew, at any time - as an individual - can accept Christ as their personal savior, thus granting them a heavenly reward.

 

When are you gonna answer my previous question? Surely this is not it.

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Is there a correlation between the Kingdom of Heaven, Kingdom of God and the Gospel of the Circumcision, Gospel of the Uncircumcision?

I think you meant the Gospel of the Kingdom vs. the Gospel of Grace

and the Gospel of the Circumcision vs. the Gospel of the Uncircumcision.

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When are you gonna answer my previous question? Surely this is not it.

Ceremonial washing has always been an integral part of Judiasm.  John the Baptist call his kinsmen to repent and be baptized.

Believers in Jesus also were ceremonially washed as a sign of repentence.  This was done to prepare the way for the Lord.

The ideal would have been for the whole nation to be baptized and receive their Messiah to sit on David's Throne.

Jesus will rule the world from Jerusalem and his kinsmen (genetic Jews) will serve him in Israel in the future.

 

We, as Gentile believers are not bound by Judiasm, we are "baptized" in the Holy Spirit.  When we see ourselves as sinful

in the presence of God the Holy Spirit, then the "self-ego" must die and we will be filled with God's Spirit be born-again and sealed.

Our King is in heaven, and we will be "changed" and taken up into heaven at the rapture (harpazo).

 

We will return from heaven with Jesus when his kinsmen (genetic Jews) repent of their National sin of rejecting their Messiah.

Meantime, we remain in the heavenly kingdom waiting for the fulfillment of Enoch's prophecy from Jude 1:14:

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
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HHmmmmm....
Wondering how we can have a rational discussion about dispensationalism when the people who are so decidedly against it don't even really know what it is????

I did not say that it does not have any "strict" definition or boundaries. What I did say is that YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS, yet you keep ranting against it. All you know about dispensationalism is what someone has poisoned you against it with, and they themselves don't know what it REALLY is.
And like I said, you are not really willing to go find out for yourself either.

Yes, Scofield was wrong in some places...but he was right more often than he was wrong. So why throw the baby out with the bathwater? You already believe many of the things that Scofield taught! Why not identify how close you are to what he taught, and then do what so many others of us have done, which is praise the Lord for where Scofield (or anyone else for that matter!) was right, and warn where he was wrong?

This is nothing more than a childish, knee-jerk reaction to something that you have no idea as to what it really is. You perceive it to be a threat. It is not.
HYPER- dispensationalism? Yes. That is a prOBlem. I am against that. It is taking a good thing too far.

You don't have any idea what I know. I don't have any idea what you know. Don't pretend omniscience, or E.S.P.

I don't want to be identified with the crowd that hangs on to the Bible molesting done by textual criticsike Darby and Scofield.

Pro 18:1
1 Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh
and intermeddleth with all wisdom.


Anishinaabe

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Ceremonial washing has always been an integral part of Judiasm.  John the Baptist call his kinsmen to repent and be baptized.

Believers in Jesus also were ceremonially washed as a sign of repentence.  This was done to prepare the way for the Lord.

The ideal would have been for the whole nation to be baptized and receive their Messiah to sit on David's Throne.

Jesus will rule the world from Jerusalem and his kinsmen (genetic Jews) will serve him in Israel in the future.

 

We, as Gentile believers are not bound by Judiasm, we are "baptized" in the Holy Spirit.  

 

 

Not me, my Baptism follows John the Baptist, same as Christ, not the Holy Spirit.  

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I think you meant the Gospel of the Kingdom vs. the Gospel of Grace

and the Gospel of the Circumcision vs. the Gospel of the Uncircumcision.

 

No, but I'll read what you write on either.

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There are no "raptures", there are resurrections.
Are you claiming that the dead won't rise at our gathering in the clouds?
Even your pet verses, that gives NO timeline, IThes., tells us it is a resurrection, not a rapture.

Rapture is a euphoric feeling, Resurrection is an event.

Anishinaabe

 

Tribulation saints are not mentioned in scripture, either.

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Ceremonial washing has always been an integral part of Judiasm.  John the Baptist call his kinsmen to repent and be baptized.

Believers in Jesus also were ceremonially washed as a sign of repentence.  This was done to prepare the way for the Lord.

The ideal would have been for the whole nation to be baptized and receive their Messiah to sit on David's Throne.

Jesus will rule the world from Jerusalem and his kinsmen (genetic Jews) will serve him in Israel in the future.

 

We, as Gentile believers are not bound by Judiasm, we are "baptized" in the Holy Spirit.  When we see ourselves as sinful

in the presence of God the Holy Spirit, then the "self-ego" must die and we will be filled with God's Spirit be born-again and sealed.

Our King is in heaven, and we will be "changed" and taken up into heaven at the rapture (harpazo).

 

We will return from heaven with Jesus when his kinsmen (genetic Jews) repent of their National sin of rejecting their Messiah.

Meantime, we remain in the heavenly kingdom waiting for the fulfillment of Enoch's prophecy from Jude 1:14:

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

 

 

Wow, back to the two bride question...

 

:umno:

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Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

 

Where do you see the rapture occurring before the wrath in chapter 6?

 

1Thess 2:16  Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

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The Gospels were not written to "the church", they were written to Israel.

If you want to read what is specifically written to "the church", read Paul's Epistles.

This is where the 4th Century Catholic church "went wrong" and continue to this very day.

Replacement Theology "remnants" are found throughout the Protestant demoninations as well.

There will be God's servants of the house of Israel (genetic Israelites) preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom during the Tribulation.

 

So we should tear the gospels out of our bibles?

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Sorry to "disappoint you", but I went to the Bible Institute of Los Angeles, (associated with J. Vernon McGee)

There were no corrupted versions of the Bible used at the Bible Institute of Los Angeles

The only other "versions" that I was aware of at that time was the (old) American Standard Version and the Revised Version ("reversed version"). 

I never even heard the mention of any "Geneva" Bible while at the Bible Institute of Los Angeles.

All my memorization of Scripture was in the King James, which the Holy Spirit uses to bring verses to my attention

to this very day, so I can find them on my hyper-linked on-line BLB.

 

Sorry to "disappoint you", but I went to the Bible Institute of Los Angeles, (associated with J. Vernon McGee)

There were no corrupted versions of the Bible used at the Bible Institute of Los Angeles

The only other "versions" that I was aware of at that time was the (old) American Standard Version and the Revised Version ("reversed version"). 

I never even heard the mention of any "Geneva" Bible while at the Bible Institute of Los Angeles.

All my memorization of Scripture was in the King James, which the Holy Spirit uses to bring verses to my attention

to this very day, so I can find them on my hyper-linked on-line BLB.

 

Was that the same McGee who said he was looking forward to the Revelation when there will be no more sea, as he was looking forward to parking his car where the pacific ocean now is?  (McGee on the Prophecies.)

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Acts 10, 11, 13. Peter preached the gospel to Cornelius and his crew (Gentiles), then Paul introduced and preached the gospel to a mix of Jews and Gentiles?

 

Key verses from Peter: Acts 10:34-45

Key verses from Paul: Acts 13:26-39.

 

You will notice that God by the Holy ghost cut off Peter from telling them they must repent and be baptized.  Before he got to that part, they were filled with the Holy Ghost and away they went.  They were not filled by the laying on of hands but through faith alone just as you and I are today.

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    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
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        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
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    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
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      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
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      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
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      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
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      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
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      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
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      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
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      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

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