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Why I Left The Pre-Trib Position


Ukulelemike

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Was that the same McGee who said he was looking forward to the Revelation when there will be no more sea, as he was looking forward to parking his car where the pacific ocean now is?  (McGee on the Prophecies.)

I have no idea.  Why don't you listen to him yourself?  He has been on the radio since the mid-'60s.

His teachings are still being rebroadcast to this very day on "Through the Bible", even though he

passed away in 1988. 

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When things moved from perfect to fallen what do you call it or when everything moved from "the Law" to "Grace"? I've heard it called a dispensation is there another name?

Yea, you would at least  think that the word "dispensation" would be in the New Testament, if it was an important "concept".

Oh wait.... it is in the New Testament :bigshock:

 

For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
 
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ,
both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
 
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
 
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
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Oh I know what dispensationalism is, I was taught it for many years in the Brethren.  I now believe the teaching to be false.   I have had friends who taught it in my current church and I disagreed with them and said why I disagreed with them.

those brethren were a bit over board and extreme find the middel Biblical ground not their extreme interpretation.

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No, in this case it's OK to read someone else's "mail".  Feel free to read Jonah (for example).

 

And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee
that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. Mt 5:30
I haven't seen very many "one-handed" Christians lately.

 

I know a few men who made themselves eunuchs following Matt 5:30

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When things moved from perfect to fallen what do you call it or when everything moved from "the Law" to "Grace"? I've heard it called a dispensation is there another name?

There are many terms one could use for example: Economies, Ages, Periods. Quantums etc etc etc but dispensations fits best.

 

The use of dispensation in Ephesians 1:10 fits a time period and Ephesians 3:2 fits a charge or duty of information dispensed to others.

 

I understand and it is considered that the Garden of Eden was a perfect state for man but really it was not.

 

 The first day after the six days of the work of God and the Seventh day of rest, though God says everything is good, he does not say it is perfect.  The flood of Gen1:2 was because of judgement on Satan and his angels, though God made the earth habitable for his next greatest creation Man, it was not perfect because the effects of Satan's sin were still upon the earth and the heavens (the atmosphere and the Universe ((not God's abode)).  That is why Satan disguised as a serpent was able to deceive Eve and cause her to fall into transgression.  Perfection (holiness) would have kept sin out but because it was not perfect sin was able to come. 

 

Only after the Revelation 21 new heavens and new earth will it be perfect again.

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wathdiver, on 04 May 2014 - 3:43 PM, said:snapback.png

Is there a correlation between the Kingdom of Heaven, Kingdom of God and the Gospel of the Circumcision, Gospel of the Uncircumcision? 

Heaven is a Created thing and God is not. 

 

Kingdom of Heaven is the created heaven which is to be a kingdom for Christ. 

 

Kingdom of God is an uncreated place that is the abode of God where all is to exist and will one sin is dealt with.

 

Gospel of the circumcision is the Gospel of the kingdom first preached by John the Baptist, Jesus and the twelve

 

Gospel of the uncircumcision is the Gospel of Grace preached by Paul, Silas and later explained to by Paul to Peter and the others in Jerusalem on one of Paul's returned trips.  See if you can locate that trip?  Paul had five trips (if I am not mistaken) to Jerusalem you will only be able to identify it by the term "up", I think Paul described it as being a private time with them.

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Ceremonial washing has always been an integral part of Judiasm.  John the Baptist call his kinsmen to repent and be baptized.

Believers in Jesus also were ceremonially washed as a sign of repentence.  This was done to prepare the way for the Lord.

The ideal would have been for the whole nation to be baptized and receive their Messiah to sit on David's Throne.

Jesus will rule the world from Jerusalem and his kinsmen (genetic Jews) will serve him in Israel in the future.

 

We, as Gentile believers are not bound by Judiasm, we are "baptized" in the Holy Spirit.  When we see ourselves as sinful

in the presence of God the Holy Spirit, then the "self-ego" must die and we will be filled with God's Spirit be born-again and sealed.

Our King is in heaven, and we will be "changed" and taken up into heaven at the rapture (harpazo).

 

We will return from heaven with Jesus when his kinsmen (genetic Jews) repent of their National sin of rejecting their Messiah.

Meantime, we remain in the heavenly kingdom waiting for the fulfillment of Enoch's prophecy from Jude 1:14:

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

 

 

So you believe, like the church of christ cult, that baptism washes away sin? That, my friend is heresy in a nutshell. And Jesus died to shed his 'baptism' for our sins? NO.

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Tribulation saints are not mentioned in scripture, either.

Yes they are.

Rev 7:14
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their rOBes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Anishinaabe

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They are called elect, as well...

Mat 24:21-22
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


Anishinaabe

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So you believe, like the church of christ cult, that baptism washes away sin? That, my friend is heresy in a nutshell. And Jesus died to shed his 'baptism' for our sins? NO.

You are full of balony, mischaricterizing my post.

You should be rebuked on this forum by the moderators for using the term "heresy"  in this context.

You OBviously no nothing whatsoever about John's baptism in the context of Judiasm.

 

==================================================================================

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the

name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Gospel of the Circumcision
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There are many terms one could use for example: Economies, Ages, Periods. Quantums etc etc etc but dispensations fits best.

 

The use of dispensation in Ephesians 1:10 fits a time period and Ephesians 3:2 fits a charge or duty of information dispensed to others.

 

I understand and it is considered that the Garden of Eden was a perfect state for man but really it was not.

 

 The first day after the six days of the work of God and the Seventh day of rest, though God says everything is good, he does not say it is perfect.  The flood of Gen1:2 was because of judgement on Satan and his angels, though God made the earth habitable for his next greatest creation Man, it was not perfect because the effects of Satan's sin were still upon the earth and the heavens (the atmosphere and the Universe ((not God's abode)).  That is why Satan disguised as a serpent was able to deceive Eve and cause her to fall into transgression.  Perfection (holiness) would have kept sin out but because it was not perfect sin was able to come. 

 

Only after the Revelation 21 new heavens and new earth will it be perfect again.

 

So you don't see heaven as perfect? Isaiah 14:12 You see the devil and his third not cast out of God's heaven? And what about when the devil went up to heaven and talked to God in JOB?

 

I must say, I've always assumed  the "good" in Genesis was the same as perfect. This is a new one to me. I need to think about that for awhile.

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You OBviously no nothing whatsoever about John's baptism in the context of Judiasm.

 

 

John's Baptism has nothing to do with the Judaism, it's Christian.  

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John's Baptism has nothing to do with the Judaism, it's Christian.  

Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him,
We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people,
that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them;
and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve.
Acts 19:1b-7
 
==============================================================================================
 
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
1 John 4:17-18
 
 
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Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him,
We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people,
that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them;
and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve.
Acts 19:1b-7
 

 

I'm sorry, this simply shows men who had been taught wrong and were not saved the bible's way.

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