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Baptist?


DaveW

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Personally, I have just about had enough.

Being a Baptist doesn't make you saved, nor does it automatically make you 100% right doctrinally.

But Baptist have traditional positions on doctrines.
Yes, I used that word - traditional.
But that doesn't make those positions wrong.

Baptists are traditionally not Calvinistic.
Baptists are traditionally premillenial.
Baptists traditionally hold to a literal reading of God's Word.
Baptists traditionally use the KJV in English speaking nations.
Baptists traditionally do not hold to double inspiration.
Baptists traditionally are not hyper dispensational.

I am sure there are other things that Baptists traditionally hold to that do not come quickly to mind at this moment.

Traditional they may be, but these positions endure mainly because they are Biblical.

I am disgusted that there are so many presently allowed to dwell not only on this site, but particularly within the IFB section, when they defy the traditional, biblical models.

I fully expect to viciously attacked over this post, but you will have noticed that I am posting less and less anyway, so I don't care.
This needs to be said.

And no, I will not nominate those to whom I am referring - everyone knows who they are, including themselves.

Finally, there is no point discussing with these people, for ridicule and verbal Belittlement is what results.
Time and again discussion has degenerated in this manner due to an unwillingness to discuss and a propensity to push their own positions.
And these positions are not Baptist no matter how much they twist history.
And they are not Bible no matter how much they twist Scripture.

Unlike a previous thread of mine, I will not hide this one no matter how much abuse is directed at me.
I will leave any decision on that to the mods.

I don't even care if the mods immediately lock, hide, or delete this as soon as it is posted.

I have said my piece.

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Here's an excerpt from Laurence Vance's book "The Other Side of Calvinism".  It's a portion of the chapter called "Calvinism and the Baptists"....

 

Calvinism and the Baptists

 

The following is from Dr. Laurence M. Vance's excellent recently updated and revised work entitled, "The Other Side of Calvinism." This definitive work is a 800-page treatment of the theological system known as Calvinism. It is extensively footnoted. Please direct any questions or comments for the author to Vance Publications. Placed on the Internet by permission of the author. Dr. Laurence M. Vance's e-mail address is: vancepub@vancepublications.com

 

The controversy over Calvinism among the Baptists calls for special attention. Not only has this debate raged among the Baptists for hundreds of years, the greatest exponents of Calvinism today are not the Presbyterian or Reformed but the Baptists. The fact that a Baptist says he is not a Calvinist means nothing, for the Baptists, more than any other Calvinists, when seeking to draw attention away from the name of Calvin, use the phrase "Doctrines of Grace" as a metaphor for Calvinism.105 Another term used by Baptists is "Sovereign Grace."106 The term "grace" by itself is also used to stand for the doctrines of Calvinism.107 One Calvinistic Baptist even wrote a book called Grace Not Calvinism.108 But just as was pointed out previously, if Calvinism is the doctrine of grace found in the Bible then this implies that if you disagree with Calvinism then you are denying salvation by grace. Some Calvinistic Baptists get downright offended when they are accused of being Calvinists. Joseph Wilson, the former editor of a Calvinistic Baptist newspaper, went on record as saying:

 

    We are Sovereign Grace Landmark Missionary Baptists. That's what we are. That's how we advertise ourselves. That's what we desire to be known as, and to be called by others. Call us this, and you will get no argument. We are not ashamed of this. We are glad to wear this label. Call us "Calvinists" and you offend us.109

 

The attempt of these "Sovereign Grace Baptists" to distance themselves from John Calvin by claiming to maintain the "Doctrines of Grace" and denying that they are Calvinists is not only insulting to all adherents and recipients of the doctrine of God's free grace in salvation, but has further OBscured their true identity and therefore made necessary more diligent study of Calvinism and the Baptists.

 

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Here's an excerpt from Laurence Vance's book "The Other Side of Calvinism".  It's a portion of the chapter called "Calvinism and the Baptists"....

You better stay away from Vance! He's a Ruckmanite  (yes, he's a graduate from Ruckman's bible institute and a friend of his) and that's not traditional.

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How dare we go against tradition!

 

DaveW. Personally, I'm tired of hearing your whine about things. Man up, brother!

 Maybe, DaveW is one of many of us who is tired of the apostasy spilled forth daily on OB.  

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You better stay away from Vance! He's a Ruckmanite  (yes, he's a graduate from Ruckman's bible institute and a friend of his) and that's not traditional.

Laurence Vance is not pushing Ruckmanism in his book "The Other Side of Calvinism".  The topic of this thread is not about Peter S. Ruckman....so why bring him up?

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How dare we go against tradition!

DaveW. Personally, I'm tired of hearing your whine about things. Man up, brother!


Thank you for your valuable contribution.......
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The truth is: Baptists are not traditionally anything, except a number of independent local bodies of Christ, with a myriad of diverse beliefs and practices. Read Rev.2 & 3 again. 7 churches started by the same apostle, with differing doctrines. Tradition in your Ind. B.C. may not be tradition in mine. Saved, Baptized church membership... Yeah, that one is universal. Spurgeon was a Calvinist. Ruckman is dispy. Rice thought the KJV was flawed. Hyles was gonna save America...epic fail. Truth is, none of these men agreed on doctrine, yet we all agree they are famous Baptists, with much influence. So, calm back down, and debate the doctrine, and earnestly contend for the faith, to defend from the evil ones crept in unawares ( like Calvin the persecutor). Anishinaabe

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I like your list, and think it agrees well with OB, but I personally think that Baptists are traditionally immersionists. Oh, and hold to the literal reading of the Bible. And premillenial. There are, unfortunately, Baptist lines that have been Calvinistic for a long time. This site, thankfully, is not.  

 

 

How dare we go against tradition!

 

DaveW. Personally, I'm tired of hearing your whine about things. Man up, brother!

 

Song, such personal attacks are neither necessary nor appropriate. You've done a few of this sort recently, and they need to cease. It is possible to disagree kindly.

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