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DaveW

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

You ignored the whole point of my post, Invicta.  Coevenanter is a "partial preterist" according to his testimony.  That is not Biblical, nor does it "rightly divide the word of truth."  Please re-read what I wrote.  It is painfully OBvious that is the prOBlem I have with him, not what he believes in eschatology as far as the "rapture" of the saints.   Convenater believes God is done with the Jews.  And, you have taken it upon yourself to speak for him.  "Birds of a feather..."  
 

 

Tweet, tweet!   :godisgood:  

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You ignored the whole point of my post, Invicta.  Coevenanter is a "partial preterist" according to his testimony.  That is not Biblical, nor does it "rightly divide the word of truth."  Please re-read what I wrote.  It is painfully OBvious that is the prOBlem I have with him, not what he believes in eschatology as far as the "rapture" of the saints.   Convenater believes God is done with the Jews.  And, you have taken it upon yourself to speak for him.  "Birds of a feather..."  
 

Have you actually read what I have written, particularly what you have quoted?

 

Ian:

That gave me what I believe to be a good understanding of all sides of the discusion, & led me into a "partial Preterist" position, whereby I believe OT prophecy is fulfilled in Christ & his redeeming work, that NT prophecy (Olivet, Thessalonians & Revelation) is largely fulfilled by the AD 70 destruction, & that in Christ the promises to Abraham are fulfilled - including Gen. 12:

2 and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
I further believe that the OT promises to Israel, national & land, include believing Jews & Gentiles as one redeemed people of God, who are called by the present Gospel, & will be perfectly fulfilled in the NH&NE when Jesus returns for resurrection & judgment.
 
Please don't allow the thread to be hijacked by replying to this post. I am simply telling you how I understand what I believe & teach."

 

Your repeated attacks on me are based on your own prejdices, NOT on what I write. You rarely quote relevant Scripture in your attacks, but accuse me of RCC teaching. Do YOU believe RCC teaching, such as the "Apostles' Creed" ? Not that the "AC" originated with Rome, any more than "partial preterism." Both originated with Scripture.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

A slightly different aspect which has spoken around but not directly addressed.

There are those here who seem to be bold in proclaiming that they ONLY use the Bible to study.

That is fine, and it should be our primary source.
And any other material used should be carefully considered in many aspects, of course.

But if you reject all other material, then you are losing out on understanding and depth from the Scriptures that is not available without certain outside information.

IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE BIBLE IN ANY WAY, but can bring a depth and richness to understanding what the Scriptures say.

 

I do kinda question the thought - "...are losing out on understanding and depth from the scriptures that is not available without certain outside information."

 

Is that what we are to do?

Does not sound like what the Lord says. "Seek ye in the book of the Lord"?

How can you say that this is a good thing to do? We have the mind of Christ, so what more should we need?

 

I think that to study, using outside of bible sources, is kinda like trying a recipe on line that you critique,

yet you have changed the recipe so much by adding 'outside the recipe' ingredients to add more of your own flair,

yet you still value your own opinion as if you did it as the recipe was written.

 

God gave us a 'big' book, to compare scripture with scripture.

I think it is enough, and to add to the 'study' side of our spiritual lives is just us wanting to be 'increased' in our own wisdom, the wisdom of the flesh.

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I do kinda question the thought - "...are losing out on

Is that what we are to do?
Does not sound like what the Lord says. "Seek ye in the book of the Lord"?
How can you say that this is a good thing to do? We have the mind of Christ, so what more should we need?

I think that to study, using outside of bible sources, is kinda like trying a recipe on line that you critique,
yet you have changed the recipe so much by adding 'outside the recipe' ingredients to add more of your own flair,
yet you still value your own opinion as if you did it as the recipe was written.

God gave us a 'big' book, to compare scripture with scripture.
I think it is enough, and to add to the 'study' side of our spiritual lives is just us wanting to be 'increased' in our own wisdom, the wisdom of the flesh.

You over looked his blasphemy:

"understanding and depth from the scriptures that is not available without certain outside information."

Jn 14:26
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jn 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:and he will shew you things to come.

Sounds like he was saying that the Holy Spirit can't do His jOB.

He needs to repent of this.

Anishinaabe

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You over looked his blasphemy:

"understanding and depth from the scriptures that is not available without certain outside information."

Jn 14:26
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jn 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:and he will shew you things to come.

Sounds like he was saying that the Holy Spirit can't do His jOB.

He needs to repent of this.

Anishinaabe

 

Good point. I didn't catch that.

What has happened to Christianity?

 

I once asked my Dad (when he pastor'd a church) what he thought about some subject, and his response was to go check it out with other commentators. Saying they knew a whole lot more than he.

I responded, in somewhat humble fashion, that he had the same Holy Spirit than they.

He didn't agree.

 

Isn't that true anymore?

Maybe not.

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I do kinda question the thought - "...are losing out on understanding and depth from the scriptures that is not available without certain outside information."

 

Is that what we are to do?

Does not sound like what the Lord says. "Seek ye in the book of the Lord"?

How can you say that this is a good thing to do? We have the mind of Christ, so what more should we need?

 

I think that to study, using outside of bible sources, is kinda like trying a recipe on line that you critique,

yet you have changed the recipe so much by adding 'outside the recipe' ingredients to add more of your own flair,

yet you still value your own opinion as if you did it as the recipe was written.

 

God gave us a 'big' book, to compare scripture with scripture.

I think it is enough, and to add to the 'study' side of our spiritual lives is just us wanting to be 'increased' in our own wisdom, the wisdom of the flesh.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your statement.  Are you saying that you do not want or need the knowledge or wisdom of any other believers to ascertain the meaning of scripture?  Have you nothing to gain from other believers?  Then why are you on this forum offering your bits of biblical knowledge and wisdom?  Do you believe that your understanding of the bible is superior to others?  Do you think that the Holy Spirit does not teach also from the mouth or pen of other believers?

 

I don't ask these questions to be irritating but in hopes that you may rethink or rephrase what you have said.

 

 

God bless,

Larry

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Maybe I am misunderstanding your statement. Are you saying that you do not want or need the knowledge or wisdom of any other believers to ascertain the meaning of scripture? Have you nothing to gain from other believers? Then why are you on this forum offering your bits of biblical knowledge and wisdom? Do you believe that your understanding of the bible is superior to others? Do you think that the Holy Spirit does not teach also from the mouth or pen of other believers?

I don't ask these questions to be irritating but in hopes that you may rethink or rephrase what you have said.


God bless,
Larry

1Jo 2:27
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you:but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

What we need, versus what we can have...

Heb 5:12-14
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness:for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


Anishinaabe

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Maybe I am misunderstanding your statement.  Are you saying that you do not want or need the knowledge or wisdom of any other believers to ascertain the meaning of scripture?  Have you nothing to gain from other believers?  Then why are you on this forum offering your bits of biblical knowledge and wisdom?  Do you believe that your understanding of the bible is superior to others?  Do you think that the Holy Spirit does not teach also from the mouth or pen of other believers?

 

I don't ask these questions to be irritating but in hopes that you may rethink or rephrase what you have said.

 

 

God bless,

Larry

 

Maybe I could have said it better.

No, I don't think I know it all, but I do believe we can know things just as well as others. We do have the same Holy Spirit as 'brothers of old'.

No, I do not think we need the input of others to "ascertain the meaning of scripture" either.

I do not think that is an incorrect ideology.

But I am not a perfect man either, I could be wrong. Anyone else think we could exist without the extra-biblical commentaries?

Is God's word enough?

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Bible commentaries, lexicons, encyclopedias, and dictionaries are simply "helps".  They are not inspired by God, but man's opinions and we shouldn't rely on them as our final authority.  The Bible is our final authority.  We need to be biblical Bereans (Acts 17:11) and check out what what we read and hear with the Bible, as the Bereans did with Paul.  Man's "opinions" will differ, but God has given the born again Christian Holy Spirit discernment to recognize when these "opinions" do not line up with God's Word. 

 

GP, are you saying that Bible commentaries, lexicons, encyclopedias and dictionaries should be considered as something demonic....something a born again Christian should never read?  Are you also saying that a born again Christian can never benefit from the teachings and opinions of man when they line up with God's Word?

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Bible commentaries, lexicons, encyclopedias, and dictionaries are simply "helps".  They are not inspired by God, but man's opinions and we shouldn't rely on them as our final authority.  The Bible is our final authority.  We need to be biblical Bereans (Acts 17:11) and check out what what we read and hear with the Bible, as the Bereans did with Paul.  Man's "opinions" will differ, but God has given the born again Christian Holy Spirit discernment to recognize when these "opinions" do not line up with God's Word. 

 

GP, are you saying that Bible commentaries, lexicons, encyclopedias and dictionaries should be considered as something demonic....something a born again Christian should never read?  Are you also saying that a born again Christian can never benefit from the teachings and opinions of man when they line up with God's Word?

 

Simply put, no, and you should not have asked, that was a gimme.

You should be rereading my posts before asking that kind of question. I say it clearly.

But let me say it again.

 

We can survive without'em.

 

God made the way, his complete word.

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If you two false accuser actually read what I wrote you would be ashamed of yourselves for making such a deceitful attack.

The only part of your shameful accusation that surprises me is that certain others have not yet joined in your filthiness.

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If you two false accuser actually read what I wrote you would be ashamed of yourselves for making such a deceitful attack.

The only part of your shameful accusation that surprises me is that certain others have not yet joined in your filthiness.

DaveW,

 

Are you referring to me in the above statement?

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If you two false accuser actually read what I wrote you would be ashamed of yourselves for making such a deceitful attack.

The only part of your shameful accusation that surprises me is that certain others have not yet joined in your filthiness.

I quoted what you actually said...which makes you a false accuser....if we are playing that game.

The truth is, you don't believe that the Holy Spirit , and the written word are enough.
You may not have realized that, before, iron sharpens iron, and it may be painful, but it is what you said, and I addressed your direct quote.

Anishinaabe

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You are still lieing.

But I don't really care if you intentionally misrepresent me.
I just thought I would point it out so that anyone reading this thread later will read the context and see how you are intentionally misrepresenting me.

But I certainly wouldn't expect better than this from some here right now.

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I quoted what you actually said...which makes you a false accuser....if we are playing that game.

The truth is, you don't believe that the Holy Spirit , and the written word are enough.
You may not have realized that, before, iron sharpens iron, and it may be painful, but it is what you said, and I addressed your direct quote.

Anishinaabe

 

Is DaveW talkin' bout us?

Hmm. What could be so wrong in just God's word and our mind to receive his instructions?

Wow!

And filthiness? Where'd he get that notion?

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I quoted what you actually said...which makes you a false accuser....if we are playing that game.

The truth is, you don't believe that the Holy Spirit , and the written word are enough.
You may not have realized that, before, iron sharpens iron, and it may be painful, but it is what you said, and I addressed your direct quote.

Anishinaabe


You had better go and change your post to include a quote from me then - it appears to me that GP is the who quoted me - or are you admitting to something here?
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A slightly different aspect which has spoken around but not directly addressed.

There are those here who seem to be bold in proclaiming that they ONLY use the Bible to study.

That is fine, and it should be our primary source.
And any other material used should be carefully considered in many aspects, of course.

But if you reject all other material, then you are losing out on understanding and depth from the Scriptures that is not available without certain outside information.

IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE BIBLE IN ANY WAY, but can bring a depth and richness to understanding what the Scriptures say.

 

Well, here it is. Just in case you forgot what started it all.

Anyone can compare what you asked, and what we stated. They know by now what you have said and what we have said.

I say, it was a good question, by you, to start a reason to respond to why we believe God can supply all we need to know.

My question is, have you read the bible through?

Roughly how many times?

Do you find it boring or something, that you would feel the need to get other peoples 'opinions' on what something means in the scriptures?

I am not talking about sharing knowledge, I am talking about 'seeing' into the scriptures things that are 'opinions' only and not facts of and from the scriptures.

If you 'study' outside sources other than the bible to clarify the bible that's your right.

But what sense does that make to tell people they can't experience 'truly' what the scriptures are saying and teaching without aids?

I love God's word, and I find it, alone, is RICH in it's own facts, and I love it that God chose the bible, at the right size, to last for my whole life, and the church's whole life.

Why do we need more than what God gave us?

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Well, here it is. Just in case you forgot what started it all.
Anyone can compare what you asked, and what we stated. They know by now what you have said and what we have said.
I say, it was a good question, by you, to start a reason to respond to why we believe God can supply all we need to know.
My question is, have you read the bible through?
Roughly how many times?
Do you find it boring or something, that you would feel the need to get other peoples 'opinions' on what something means in the scriptures?
I am not talking about sharing knowledge, I am talking about 'seeing' into the scriptures things that are 'opinions' only and not facts of and from the scriptures.
If you 'study' outside sources other than the bible to clarify the bible that's your right.
But what sense does that make to tell people they can't experience 'truly' what the scriptures are saying and teaching without aids?
I love God's word, and I find it, alone, is RICH in it's own facts, and I love it that God chose the bible, at the right size, to last for my whole life, and the church's whole life.
Why do we need more than what God gave us?


And that is simply not true.

You understand God's Word in the light of outside information and influence EVERY TIME YOU READ IT.

And that is my point, which is plainly clear.

Show me a definition of snow for instance. You understand what the Bible means by "White as snow" not because the Bible itself explains it, but because the Bible assumes you know what snow looks like. How? From other sources.

Now if you want to continue to misrepresent what I say, then go right ahead, but if you do you will be a liar.
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