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The Bible Only?


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Simply, put why is the word "symbolic" used to describe something in the Bible?  I feel like I am sitting in my RCC growing up.  The RCC used the word "symbolism" to describe the Bible.  The Bible is literal.  It is quite simple to understand what the 144,000 means if the book of Revelation is read in context.

Calvinists are allowed to promote apostasy on OB, yet anyone who is an RCC is chased away?  What is the difference?  Both religions are promoting heresy on an IFB site.

Perhaps I should have written "signified" as in:

Rev. 1:The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

 

Rev. 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

 

So here we read about literal four corners of the earth and a literal seal of the living God. We further read thatliterally all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed, but that "all" excludes the tribe of Dan, & includes Joseph, whose inheritance was divided between Ephraim & Manasseh. Where is Ephraim? Remember also that in the settlement prophesied by Ezekiel 48, Dan has pride of place. And, of course Jesus literally has out of his mouth [went] a sharp twoedged sword.

 

You may be aware  of these Scriptures which symbolise the word of God as a sword:

Eph. 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

 

Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

And is "virginity" - sexual purity - used symbolically of religious purity in Scripture? You will be aware that sexual relations in marriage do not defile.

Rev. 14:These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 

See Ezek. 16.

 

2 Cor. 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

 

Is the

 

Symbolic language signifies something real & literal, & used to teach a real happening, normally in Scripture to be understood by careful reading & comparison of Scripture. "Firstfruits" is another term here used symbolically - it signifies the first generation of Jews to be converted, who were sealed before the four winds fell on the land. The OBvious meaning links up with the Olivet prophecies of the time when believers were warned to flee the city before its destruction.

 

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

......

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. 29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30 when they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. 31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. 32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

 

 

I am able to give consistent Scriptural support for what I believe - challenge me from Scripture if you disagree, not with prejudicial accusations.

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Speaking of the Bereans?  This video was put out by them, Covenanter.

Israel and the Jews:  An excellent video by those of the "reformed" persuasion, who feel they are now Israel.  This is happening not only in the world, but within evangelical Christianity.

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Well Covenanter, your use of the word "signified" to make Revelation a symbolic book is unjustified in the text.

After that word is used there are quite plainly some (many) references which are literal, not symbolic, therefore to blindly symbolise the whole book is just wrong.
Secondly there are events described in great detail which have not been recorded in history, but which, because of their scale, would not possibly have been missed in the historical record.

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I do at least one specific study in the book of Revelation each year (besides my regular reading of the book as I read my Bible, other readings in that book, and other studies that might deal with Revelation).

 

While the whole Bible requires much prayer, I find that Revelation requires much diligent and patient prayer; as well as a patient, slower pace approach for the best gains. (That's my personal experience, not a statement of dogma)

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Preterism as an eschatological explanation was laid out by a Jesuit - to counter the teachings of the Protestants that the RCC was the Whore of Babylon (which, BTW, is symbolic of something...it isn't literally a woman) and the Anti-Christ (FWIW - I am not a Preterist, but I don't believe the Whore is the RCC...at least not as she is now).  

 

Rome never changes.  Her motto is Semper Edem, (or Idem, Eadem)  Ever the Same.

 

Incidentally I agree that preterism was started by the Jesuit, Bellarmine to counter the reformers true teaching that the pope is the antichrist and the RCC church is the harlot.       There are two churches in the Revelation, 1.  The Bride, the true church and 2,  Mystery Babylon, Rome, the harlot, the false church.  This teaching was soon countered by the reformers so Jesiuts, Ribera  and others, invented Futurism for the same reason.  In the early 17th century Brightman wrote a rOBust reply to that false teaching.

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Rome never changes.  Her motto is Semper Edem, (or Idem, Eadem)  Ever the Same.

 

Incidentally I agree that preterism was started by the Jesuit, Bellarmine to counter the reformers true teaching that the pope is the antichrist and the RCC church is the harlot.       There are two churches in the Revelation, 1.  The Bride, the true church and 2,  Mystery Babylon, Rome, the harlot, the false church.  This teaching was soon countered by the reformers so Jesiuts, Ribera  and others, invented Futurism for the same reason.  In the early 17th century Brightman wrote a rOBust reply to that false teaching.

 

Rome never will change, Invicta.  I grew up with Jesuits preaching preterism in the RCC.  It is not a secret how much they despise the Jews.  Unfortunately, this hatred for the Jews has spilled over into some Protestant denominations.  I thought I left that behind in the RCC.  BTW, my parents have always supported the Jewish people, and they had a prOBlem with the RCC b/c of this, as well.  And, many other things, too.  Many Roman Catholics are also not aware of this teaching.  They believe the lies spewed out by the Jesuits.  Many are returning to the RCC because of this Jesuit pope.  He worships Satan.  I will share a short video, this time, of the pope in a recent Mass at St. Peter's Basilica.

 

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All false religionists are worshiping Satan whether they realize it or not. It's such a terrible thing going on these days when many Christians are being sucked into the "Catholics are Christians too" big lie.

 

There is even one IFB church in a nearby small city that began a few years ago yoking with the local Catholic church (and other unsound churches) for political and local community and social needs.

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All false religionists are worshiping Satan whether they realize it or not. It's such a terrible thing going on these days when many Christians are being sucked into the "Catholics are Christians too" big lie.

 

There is even one IFB church in a nearby small city that began a few years ago yoking with the local Catholic church (and other unsound churches) for political and local community and social needs.

 

It doesn't make it Biblically right,  John.  As long as the IFB church sticks with the KJV, and follows it as closely to it as we can, we are not worshiping Satan.  There are still Biblically sound churches in the world.

It isn't like our Fundamentalist/Evangelical churches are going to gather groups together and pull a Jim Jones on the flock.  If that happens, I won't drink the Koolaide.   :runforhills:

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Well Covenanter, your use of the word "signified" to make Revelation a symbolic book is unjustified in the text.

After that word is used there are quite plainly some (many) references which are literal, not symbolic, therefore to blindly symbolise the whole book is just wrong.
Secondly there are events described in great detail which have not been recorded in history, but which, because of their scale, would not possibly have been missed in the historical record.

I don't think you read my post - if you had you would have read:

"Symbolic language signifies something real & literal, & used to teach a real happening, normally in Scripture to be understood by careful reading & comparison of Scripture."

The large scale events - I presume you mean such events involving the earth as: And when he had opened the fourth seal,

I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

 

Often "earth" is used in the sense of "land" (meaning the land of Israel) or soil, as in: they had no deepness of earth. The same Gk word (ge) is variously translated, & the context helps us understand the meaning. We should not read earth as the planet in every case.

 

As the events of the Revelation are prophesied to occur shortly ... for the time is at hand they should primarily be understood as occurring in the first century - & as the destruction is still specifically prophesied (Rev. 11) we are dealing with local events relating to the destruction. With that understanding, the fourth part of the earth relates to the people of Jerusalem & its environs in their final rebellion. Ezekiel prophesies exactly that, & the deliverance of the remnant:

Eze. 14:19 Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast: 20 though Noah, Daniel, and JOB, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness. 21 For thus saith the Lord God; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?

22 Yet, behold, therein shall be left a remnant that shall be brought forth, both sons and daughters: behold, they shall come forth unto you, and ye shall see their way and their doings: and ye shall be comforted concerning the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, even concerning all that I have brought upon it. 23 And they shall comfort you, when ye see their ways and their doings: and ye shall know that I have not done without cause all that I have done in it, saith the Lord God.

The "seals" include the deliverance of the remnant - the144,000 firstfruits who as believers in the Lamb are chaste virgins in the religious sense.

 

Learn how to read the Scriptures, & understand the Scriptures by the Scriptures.

 

 

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Rome never changes.  Her motto is Semper Edem, (or Idem, Eadem)  Ever the Same.

 

Incidentally I agree that preterism was started by the Jesuit, Bellarmine to counter the reformers true teaching that the pope is the antichrist and the RCC church is the harlot.       There are two churches in the Revelation, 1.  The Bride, the true church and 2,  Mystery Babylon, Rome, the harlot, the false church.  This teaching was soon countered by the reformers so Jesiuts, Ribera  and others, invented Futurism for the same reason.  In the early 17th century Brightman wrote a rOBust reply to that false teaching.

HappyChristian is honest about the origins of Preterism & quotes from Eusebius, who refers to other Early Church Fathers. (I hold the "partial" Preterist position.)

 

Preterism as an eschatological explanation was laid out by a Jesuit - to counter the teachings of the Protestants that the RCC was the Whore of Babylon (which, BTW, is symbolic of something...it isn't literally a woman) and the Anti-Christ (FWIW - I am not a Preterist, but I don't believe the Whore is the RCC...at least not as she is now).  But the belief seems to have been taught before that. Eusebias made reference to it (he lived back in the 3rd/4th century) -

The fact that Preterism was taken up & taught by Jesuits is not significant. RCs have many doctrines that are shared with Protestants & IFBs - e.g. the so-called "Apostes' Creed."

 

The English text used in the Mass of the Roman Rite since 2011 is:

I believe in God, the Father almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried; he descended into hell; on the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.      
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Paul held a pre-tribulatioal view of the gathering of the saints into the clouds to be with him 1Thess 4, and 2 Thess 2.

 

Replacement theology (body of Christ replaced Israel) is not new but more are into the preterist view today than ever.

 

Just hang on to your view when we get to heaven then we will know.

 

there is to much double fulfillment of Scripture if you compare the OT prophets and the book of Revelation (which is still future).  So we will know when we get there.

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All the Apostles believed in a "catching away" of the saints, for that matter.

All of the pre, mid, post, Mil, etc. are man made things.

OBviously, the word "rapture" is man made, but the belief in it is Biblical.

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Okay, second mod input: Most (though not all) of the time Covenanter doesn't initiate, push or belabor his views but sometimes (such as in this case) is pushed, prodded or shoved into it (should he respond or not? I prOBably wouldn't, you prOBably would). As to the "you ain't my pastor, boss, mod (or whatever) attitude toward John81, that was TOTALLY uncalled for.

 

If you were sitting in the same room hearing my voice you would understand all the above is stated with no animosity or emotion, just detached OBservation.

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All the Apostles believed in a "catching away" of the saints, for that matter.

All of the pre, mid, post, Mil, etc. are man made things.

OBviously, the word "rapture" is man made, but the belief in it is Biblical.

 

I don't believe that anyone on here does not believe that we will be caught away to meet the Lord in the air.  Trouble is many add to that.

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