How Old Is The Earth

[AVBibleBeliever]

The Earth is around 7 Thousand years old, or Millions of Millions of years ago. Which one sounds better to you?

I most definitely did not say it was millions of years old.  It is either one day to a thousand years older than the 6 days of his work.  I made no hint what so ever that it was.  My OP clearly states how old I believe it is.

Edited February 19, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[TheSword]

Is Jesus God?    Yes same entity not person

 

Is Jesus Eternally pre-existent?  Yes as the Son of God, the Word

 

Was Jesus Created by God the Father?  No, he is one with God the Father

 

Good deal. Glad we're on the same page.

 

Regarding Proverbs 8, I understand it as a personification of wisdom as made explicit by v.1 and v.12 and that it is not necessarily a reference to Christ due to the usage of "she" as the personal pronoun as opposed to the consistent presentation of God in masculine terms. The theme of the personifcation of wisdom is maintained throughout the whole chapter.

 

What in Proverbs 8 makes you interpret it as a Christological reference and thus read it into the Creation narrative of Genesis 1?

[AVBibleBeliever]

Good deal. Glad we're on the same page.

 

Regarding Proverbs 8, I understand it as a personification of wisdom as made explicit by v.1 and v.12 and that it is not necessarily a reference to Christ due to the usage of "she" as the personal pronoun as opposed to the consistent presentation of God in masculine terms. The theme of the personifcation of wisdom is maintained throughout the whole chapter.

 

What in Proverbs 8 makes you interpret it as a Christological reference and thus read it into the Creation narrative of Genesis 1?

Is not Jesus Christ is the personification of God's wisdom?

[paid4]

I think we probably agree on most things recarding creation (based on what you said above and is a personal interest of mine as well), but I don't think these are great arguments that strengthen the position. Perhaps we can start another thread on creation apologetics and how to help each other present a better defense? =)

I just posted it that way to show the unimportance of the matter as related to our faith. I use an old scoffield KJV Bible and his notes in Genesis agree with the gap theory. I don't and here's why. In the gap theory you assume there are millions of years between vs. 1 and 2. that is how most explain the dinosaurs. However, there is no light until vs. 3. without light nothing lives John ch.1. People try to explain the death of dinosaurs here but that puts death before the fall which is not true. Either way the point is irrelevant and you can use my reasoning in the previous post to turn a conversation into witnessing for Christ. That's all I was intending on showing. All the PS's were just ranting on topics my mind kinda joins together.

 

Ponder this thought. However old the earth really is we're walking on the same ground.

By the way, I have some antique soil for sale by the gallon on www. ......just kidding.

[swathdiver]

Whenever I've found myself in disagreement with God, I got right with the Lord real quick!  

 

I believe the angles, arch-angels, Serraphim, cherubs and cherubim were made before Genesis 1:1.  

 

"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." - Exodus 20:11

[TheSword]

Is not Jesus Christ is the personification of God's wisdom?

 

Is He? Based on what Scripture(s)?

 

Wisdom is more often associated with the Holy Spirit who subsequently gifts people with it than it is with Jesus (Ex 28:3, 31:3, 35:31; Deu 34:9; 1 Kings 3:28; Isa 11:2; Acts 6:3, 10;1 Cor 12:8; Eph 1:17). Additionally, how could Jesus be filled with and increase in wisdom if He was the embodiment of it (Luke 2:40, 52)

[AVBibleBeliever]

I just posted it that way to show the unimportance of the matter as related to our faith. I use an old scoffield KJV Bible and his notes in Genesis agree with the gap theory. I don't and here's why. In the gap theory you assume there are millions of years between vs. 1 and 2. that is how most explain the dinosaurs. However, there is no light until vs. 3. without light nothing lives John ch.1. People try to explain the death of dinosaurs here but that puts death before the fall which is not true. Either way the point is irrelevant and you can use my reasoning in the previous post to turn a conversation into witnessing for Christ. That's all I was intending on showing. All the PS's were just ranting on topics my mind kinda joins together.

 

Ponder this thought. However old the earth really is we're walking on the same ground.

By the way, I have some antique soil for sale by the gallon on www. ......just kidding.

But I made no claims of evolution or pre-adamic life.

 

You assume their is no light before there was verse 3.  But yet God is light and light of verse three is not natural light but supernatural it may even be God the Son who claimed to be the light and was testified to be the light by John the apostle.

 

IN God's abode (the third heaven) there is only light, the only reason we are separated from his abode is because he made a firmament the only day he does not say that what he made was good was day two.  That firmament not only separated the waters but it also keeps darkness from entering into God's abode (the third heaven).

 

I made no claim of millions of years of times either.  I believe it was a very short period of time. I propose that a testing that had to do with God and his creations before man, being the angels, cherubs, cherubims and seraphims took place and it had something to do with this earth.  And that the purpose of this earth was for the exaltation of the wisdom of God, His Son, the Word who later became man in the person of Jesus Christ.

 

In reality I still believe that the earth is not much more than 6000 years and not quite 7000.  The only beings that would have been on the earth would have been the anointed cherub and his angels.  I never said anything about animals before Genesis 1:2 or humanoid race.

 

I surmised a scenario loosely based on what scripture does reveal about the fall of Lucifer and a throne he was trying to exalt and it wasn't the seat in the presence of God.

 

The thing is many will follow mens teaching that the devil and his angels were created, tested and fell during the 6 day work of God in Genesis one without even one thread of Bible evidence to support that view.  Yet will scoff at my view which has more credence than theirs which would have you believe there was an ice shield around the earth for a 1000 years until the flood.  And would have you believe the ice melted and flooded the earth at the time of Noah.  Before you would believe that the waters that had been created at the time of the earth had left their ordained place in fountains and flooded the earth.

Edited February 19, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[AVBibleBeliever]

Is He? Based on what Scripture(s)?

 

Wisdom is more often associated with the Holy Spirit who subsequently gifts people with it than it is with Jesus (Ex 28:3, 31:3, 35:31; Deu 34:9; 1 Kings 3:28; Isa 11:2; Acts 6:3, 10;1 Cor 12:8; Eph 1:17). Additionally, how could Jesus be filled with and increase in wisdom if He was the embodiment of it (Luke 2:40, 52)

He laid down his divine wisdom and assumed a life of a man where he grew in wisdom as a man not as God. 

 

And if you don't think that Jesus Christ was the wisest thing that God could do for man then you understand not the salvation of God.

[TheSword]

He laid down his divine wisdom and assumed a life of a man where he grew in wisdom as a man not as God. 

 

Interesting....based on what Scripture? What other parts of divine nature did He lay down? Omniscience? Omnipotence? This is approaching Nestorianism a little bit.

 

 

And if you don't think that Jesus Christ was the wisest thing that God could do for man then you understand not the salvation of God.

 

Nowhere did I question the wisdom of God nor that Jesus was wise nor that God assuming flesh was wise. Jesus as the physical embodiment of wisdom and the incarnation as the ultimate wise act are two completely different things. My assertion is that wisdom is an attribute of the one triune God over against what I understand you to be saying that Jesus literally is the wisdom of God.

 

What I'm saying about Pro 8 is that personfication is being used as a literary device to describe the wisdom of God.

Edited February 19, 2014 by TheSword

[heartstrings]

AVBibleBeliever

 

There may or may not be a "gap" and none of us know how old the earth really is. But the Bible is clear and plain about who Jesus is. He's God. John chapter 1 outlines this fact for you. The "Word" was God, was in the beginning, made all things, and later was "made flesh" and dwellled among us. That's why his name was called "Imanuel" which means "God with us".

 

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 

2The same was in the beginning with God. 

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him........,

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

Edited February 19, 2014 by heartstrings

[Ukulelemike]

But I made no claims of evolution or pre-adamic life.

 

You assume their is no light before there was verse 3.  But yet God is light and light of verse three is not natural light but supernatural it may even be God the Son who claimed to be the light and was testified to be the light by John the apostle.

 

IN God's abode (the third heaven) there is only light, the only reason we are separated from his abode is because he made a firmament the only day he does not say that what he made was good was day two.  That firmament not only separated the waters but it also keeps darkness from entering into God's abode (the third heaven). You assume there was a thrid heaven before God separated the 'heaven' into the firmaments, or heavens. On the second day, He made the firmament of the sky, the atmosphere, and on the fourth day He created the second heaven, space. Now, we don't know specifically when He made the third heaven, but if he made heaven, (all the space into which to place things) and earth, and the sea and all that in them is, then He had to have created the third heaven, as well as the angelic beings, during that time.

 

See, to assume a 'before' creation, before the first day, is to assume the impossible: there could be no before because there was no time-God created time, from which of course he is separate, but we are dealing with created things in heaven earth and the sea, which must assume the heavenly beings, as well as their abode, as God Himself needs no abode-the heaven of the heavens cannot contain the Lord, so He needs no place to 'be'., but those created do, such as angels, and the wording of creation assumes them, being created beings, as having been made on those six days.

 

I made no claim of millions of years of times either.  I believe it was a very short period of time. I propose that a testing that had to do with God and his creations before man, being the angels, cherubs, cherubims and seraphims took place and it had something to do with this earth.  And that the purpose of this earth was for the exaltation of the wisdom of God, His Son, the Word who later became man in the person of Jesus Christ. Actually the Bible tells us otherwise. "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."  (Rev 4:11) All things were created for the pleasure of God the Father. Besides, it seems that at some point, after the thousand year reign of Christ, Jesus will hand all over to His Father, "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." It seems as though, at this time, Father, Son and Spirit will be together as one, just God, no more three Person Godhead, just God. We have to remember, there is a purpose for a Holy Ghost and Son of God-they each have a purpose, but what about when their purpose is accomplished once and for all? It seems, from this verse, God will be all in all, one God, one Person. If this is the case, then the ultimate purpose can't be to exalt Jesus Christ. At least, that's how I read this. I may be wrong, BUT, it is clear that all was created for the father's pleasure.

 

In reality I still believe that the earth is not much more than 6000 years and not quite 7000.  The only beings that would have been on the earth would have been the anointed cherub and his angels.  I never said anything about animals before Genesis 1:2 or humanoid race. So they hung out on a black, lightless, moonless, starless, plantless, animal-less rock? To what purpose?

 

I surmised a scenario loosely based on what scripture does reveal about the fall of Lucifer and a throne he was trying to exalt and it wasn't the seat in the presence of God.

 

The thing is many will follow mens teaching that the devil and his angels were created, tested and fell during the 6 day work of God in Genesis one without even one thread of Bible evidence to support that view.  Yet will scoff at my view which has more credence than theirs which would have you believe there was an ice shield around the earth for a 1000 years until the flood.  And would have you believe the ice melted and flooded the earth at the time of Noah.  Before you would believe that the waters that had been created at the time of the earth had left their ordained place in fountains and flooded the earth. I don't believe the angels were tested-I believe that Lucifer fell to pride in his beauty and position and fell, perhaps because the earth was given to men, not him, and it happened sometime in the first hundred years, roughly. I don't believe Adam and Eve sinned on day 8. And really, the waters that flooded the earth, for the most part, were the waters from under the ground, not so much the rain-probably more fountained up, than fell down, then aswaged gradually, some back into the earth, others into seas, lakes, oceans and such.

[AVBibleBeliever]

AVBibleBeliever

 

There may or may not be a "gap" and none of us know how old the earth really is. But the Bible is clear and plain about who Jesus is. He's God. John chapter 1 outlines this fact for you. The "Word" was God, was in the beginning, made all things, and later was "made flesh" and dwellled among us. That's why his name was called "Imanuel" which means "God with us".

 

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 

2The same was in the beginning with God. 

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him........,

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

I never said Jesus wasn't God.

Edited February 19, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[heartstrings]

Jesus is not a "created being" or "wisdom" either.

[AVBibleBeliever]

Jesus is not a "created being" or "wisdom" either.

I never said he was a created being. 

 

1Cor 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Edited February 19, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[beameup]

hayah tohuw bohuw

hayah   to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass

tohuw   formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness

bohuw  emptiness, void, waste

The Earth became a wasteland, empty and chaotic.

hayah tohuw bohuw