Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Then neither is cooking. It is no different than making a pot of soup. If the soup has the ability to make a man drunk, you are correct. It is no different than making a pot of soup. But since there is no instruction in the Bible not to make a pot of soup, but there is one that tells us to abstain from alcohol, you are comparing apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members no name joe Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 doesn't sound "natural" to me. Man's intervention all the way through. Matthew 12:35 (KJV) A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. Refrigeration isn't natural either. But humans learned how nature works and applied the laws of nature to create a refrigerator and freezer. Electricity as we know it is not "natural" under your definition, but humans harnessed natural laws to create it. This computer isn't "natural." Man intervened to create it. God have us authority over the world to use it and create it. Early on, before refrigeration, humans learned how nature works and discovered fermenting things preserves them from decay. So they made wine. Wineskins were used for long journeys. I guarantee you travelers took fermented wine. Grape juice would not last. It would spoil within a few days of a hot journey. Same with keeping it in the house. They fermented wine to preserve it and keep it. They did not have refrigeration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GraceSaved Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 SFIC: A trait both you and Jeffrey have demonstrated many times in this thread. Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members no name joe Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 If the soup has the ability to make a man drunk, you are correct. It is no different than making a pot of soup. But since there is no instruction in the Bible not to make a pot of soup, but there is one that tells us to abstain from alcohol, you are comparing apples and oranges. Soup has the ability to make a man fat if he over indulges. The Bible nowhere tells us we must abstain. Jesus served wine at the last supper. It was in all likelihood fermented. Again, keeping grape juice fresh would be impossible over a day or two, maybe three or four in colder temperatures. Set out a jug of orange juice or grape juice without refrigeration and see how many days it is that you are no longer willing to drink it. It takes a lot of alcohol to get drunk. Just as it takes most people eating a whole lot of food to get fat (absent a medical condition). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeffrey Posted February 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yes. I brew beer a few times a year and have made wine once, so LOVE the fermentation process. It is quite simple and natural, actually. For beer, sugar is extracted from grains such as wheat or barley. This is done by soaking it in warm water, around. Soaking it extracts the sugars, which are then reduced down to malt. To the malt, you add some water, and boil for about 60-90 minutes. You add your hops to add bitterness and herbal notes at different points during the boil. After the boil, you have your "wort." Which is basically unfermented beer. The liquid is packed with sugar. You lower the temperature and add yeast at the right temperature (around 70 degrees usually, depending on the type of yeast). Yeast is a substance that occurs in nature all the time. It is floating in the air. Different types of yeast can be used to produce different flavors. But you just add yeast, and then let it sit and maintain the temp around 65-70 degrees. The yeast devours the sugar, turning it into alcohol. At the end of 7 days or so, you have delicious beer, unless you did something wrong, in which case it can be quite foul (lack of keeping everything sterile is probably the culprit for a bad batch). Then you can age it to mellow the alcohol a bit. Wine is basically the same. You press grapes extracting the juice, which is full of sugars. You add yeast, and the yeast eats the sugars, turning it into alcohol. It is not decay, it is yeast eating sugar, which produces the alcohol. Decay is composing with bacteria eating the scraps. Turning sugar into alcohol actually prevents decay. That is why it was used often in the ancient world. To preserve the juice from grapes, they would ferment it. Fermenting can give it a shelf life of years. Whereas, if left as juice, it would spoil very quickly. Fermenting has been used for preserving food. Sour Kraut is a fermented food done to preserve cabbage, is one example. Beer is another. Wine is another. Now, to make hard liquor, you take you basically follow the same process to make beer. Then once fermented, you send it to a distillery to separate the alcohol from the water and other substances in the liquid. You are extracting the alcohol and concentrating it. You don't need to add yeast, it's already on the skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeffrey Posted February 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 John was not under a vow. You obviously need to read your Bible. Luke 1:13-15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeffrey Posted February 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 SFIC: A trait both you and Jeffrey have demonstrated many times in this thread. Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Your right, I ask forgiveness if I have offended anybody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GraceSaved Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 The Scripture was given many times in this thread. You've ignored it thus far. No. The scriptures were given on drunkenness. You also ignore scripture when you offer you opinions and judgment on others. If your only contribution to this thread is to try to slander and not engage in a healthy discussion, then move right along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Refrigeration isn't natural either. But humans learned how nature works and applied the laws of nature to create a refrigerator and freezer. Electricity as we know it is not "natural" under your definition, but humans harnessed natural laws to create it. This computer isn't "natural." Man intervened to create it. God have us authority over the world to use it and create it. Early on, before refrigeration, humans learned how nature works and discovered fermenting things preserves them from decay. So they made wine. Wineskins were used for long journeys. I guarantee you travelers took fermented wine. Grape juice would not last. It would spoil within a few days of a hot journey. Same with keeping it in the house. They fermented wine to preserve it and keep it. They did not have refrigeration. Actually, refrigeration is natural... if one goes to the right source. For one, the ground itself has the ability to "refrigerate" things. I could go to Virginia today, get a snowball and bury it in the dirt. Go back six months later dig that snowball up still intact. In Bible times, they had ways to keep things cold too. Pliny the Elder, who died in the first Century A.D., recorded ways to preserve wine in its unfermented state by sealing it in jars and dropping it in a millpond. You really should do your homework before making claims that are easily refuted by historical writings. Google Cato, Columella, Pliny, even Aristotles. All recorded methods of preserving things in an unfermented state and keeping them unfermented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GraceSaved Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 No more than you could show Scripture that says gambling, smoking marijuana, piercing your tongue, sporting a mohawk, having multiple wives, or owning a slave is explicitly sinful. They're all done based on principle and not specific command or prohibition. Not every sin is specifically listed. The Bible would infinitely longer if it did. This is why I keep going back to saying this is a legalistic statement because it's an attempt to strictly establish a rule based on letter and not principle. I don't want to drag the conversation down with a repeated point, but no one has argued against it yet. I argue that overarching biblical principle says that whether a Christian can drink a little or not, a Christian should not drink at all. Exactly. So what may be sin to you and against your conscience may not be for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Your right, I ask forgiveness if I have offended anybody It is the Bible that says fools despise wisdom. It is the Bible that identifies you and GS as fools. I only agree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GraceSaved Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 It is the Bible that says fools despise wisdom. It is the Bible that identifies you and GS as fools. I only agree with it. You really like selective Bible reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Luke 1:13-15 That was not a vow. Go back to school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 You really like selective Bible reading. Actually, I have read the whole Bible. But "Go hou and do likewise" did not apply for the answer I gave you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GraceSaved Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 That was not a vow. Go back to school. Please read my thread on Forum Etiquette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.