Can Your Kids Have Gay Friends?

[Jeffrey]

We should be training for for witnessing opportunities yes, but also as to what sin is and how to avoid it, whether it be lying, stealing, homosexuality, whiskey, whatever, and teach them to separate from it.

What my wife and teach our kids is what is sinful and what isn't, what real obedience looks like and what it doesn't. Of course we don't want our children involved in any activity that isn't pleasing to God. It is our job, also, how to witness, how to be a blessing and to be Christlike towards others, which was a huge topic this weekend with our boys not sharing with each other.
And yes, they see me drink and they have never seen me drunk. I know it's hard for some to fathom, but, there is a difference.

[Guest]

Sure they can; my children are all adults and they can have any friends they want.

 

I have two children with which Biblical instruction 'took' and they have no friends who are actively involved in the lustful practice of homosexual behavior. These two children are saved and reject the practice of homosexual lust based on the Bible. Homosexuals don't seem to frequent the places my saved children frequent; i.e. their local church, men's retreats, etc. These two saved children prefer the fellowship/friendship of like-minded Christians; this limits opportunity for homosexual contact since homosexuals predominantly associate with other worldly folk such as the abortionists, socialists, drug use advocates, etc. 

 

I have one child, the youngest, presently accepting homosexual lusts as just another 'way for people to conduct themselves." We are praying for the latter to receive Christ as Savior; you see, this child also rejects Christ. 

[TheSword]

What my wife and teach our kids is what is sinful and what isn't, what real obedience looks like and what it doesn't. Of course we don't want our children involved in any activity that isn't pleasing to God. It is our job, also, how to witness, how to be a blessing and to be Christlike towards others, which was a huge topic this weekend with our boys not sharing with each other.
And yes, they see me drink and they have never seen me drunk. I know it's hard for some to fathom, but, there is a difference.

 

Not to get into your parenting business too deeply, but it is the subject of the thread...there is the old maxim that what our children see as do (or deem acceptable) they will at some point do (or deem acceptable) in excess. I don't personally think it's inevitable, but it does greatly increase the likelihood. By normalizing behaviors or choices as acceptable in any capacity translates to total acceptance in the mind of a child (depending on the age of course). With the alcohol example, your children see that alcohol is ok to drink. How do you teach them that it is not ok in excess and keep them from ever becoming drunk? If you can't do that then all you've done is place a stumbling block before them. Similarly with having homosexual friends, by giving that lifestyle choice any amount of acceptability via allowing them to have friendly relationships with them puts in their mind that since their friend is ok then their choice is ok as well. It is particularly hard to get around in this case because they will have such a positive view of their friend (that's why they chose them as a friend to begin with) that the rational part of the human mind will whitewash the issue. I've seen it happen on multiple occasions and in fact have a cousin who grew up in a solid Baptist home compromises her beliefs on this issue because she had a close friend who was gay in college. The things we endorse to our children, we do so wholesale and can nowise do it piecemeal.

 

Approval of a friendship is tacit approval of the friend as they are. Would you encourage your children to be friends with a drug addict because they're overall a nice person and we should look past the sins they choose to wrap themselves in? Would you encourage your children to befriend someone who practices wicca because they have other redeeming qualities? Or would you see those devient behaviors and encourage your children to find other friends because you don't want them to pick up those influences?

[GraceSaved]

I just saw a post on my facebook page that said "the nicest people I ever met were covered in tattoos and piercings.  The most judgmental people I've ever met are the ones who go to church every Sunday."

 

That's because, unfortunately, some professing Christians only have religion, which focus on the outward appearance, while true Christianity focuses on the internal, which only God can see.

 

There are so many influences in this world.  We can't hide from them.  We can only learn how to deal with them properly and if we teach our children not to associate with such people, we are sheltering them in such a way that may actually cause harm.  They need to be prepared to go out in this world, with such people.  I understand children are easily influenced, but their strongest influence should be coming from a Godly upbringing.

[DaveW]

There is one aspect that has not been addressed so far.

If we say to our children "You can not have anything to do with those people because they are vile and wicked and horrible people" they will eventually meet someone who is a really nice hardworking upstanding citizen and they will think to themselves "someone lied to me - they are nice people".

We need to teach our children that these people are sinners like any other person and in need of the Saviour, and that their activities are not honouring to God.
Then when they meet a nice hardworking, homosexual who contributes to society they will think "another sinner who needs to be saved".

[Ukulelemike]

Wasn't Jesus known as a 'friend to sinners"? He ate with them, loved them, spoke to them-even His disciples were lost sinners until they received the Holy Ghost after His resurrection-Jesus even called one "Satan" as I recall. If we are to be followers of Jesus, how can we not be a friend of sinners?

 

When we are told not to love the world, neither the things in the world, I don't believe this includes people, because it is to them we are called. How can we show them the love of Christ if we keep them at arm's length?  Even the Lord had to show Peter, and then others, how the wall of separation between the Jews and gentiles had been broken down, so they could eat and fellowship together.

 

and of course, the desire is always to bring them the gospel, the live a godly life before them, not partaking in the sins they partake of, but to show them, through our transformed lives, a better way in Christ.

[GraceSaved]

Wasn't Jesus known as a 'friend to sinners"? He ate with them, loved them, spoke to them-even His disciples were lost sinners until they received the Holy Ghost after His resurrection-Jesus even called one "Satan" as I recall. If we are to be followers of Jesus, how can we not be a friend of sinners?

 

When we are told not to love the world, neither the things in the world, I don't believe this includes people, because it is to them we are called. How can we show them the love of Christ if we keep them at arm's length?  Even the Lord had to show Peter, and then others, how the wall of separation between the Jews and gentiles had been broken down, so they could eat and fellowship together.

 

and of course, the desire is always to bring them the gospel, the live a godly life before them, not partaking in the sins they partake of, but to show them, through our transformed lives, a better way in Christ.

Amen!

[John81]

Look again at who Jesus' friends were. His closest friends were Peter, James and John.

 

Jesus took the Gospel to sinners but He didn't pal around with them, He didn't make friends with them. Jesus was friendly toward sinners but He didn't make sinners His friends.

 

If we accept the idea of having lost friends, then we must either cast out various verses which warn against such, say they don't apply today, or ignore them.

 

I'm friendly with the lost. In times past I had lost friends and exactly what Scripture warns of happened; their sinfulness had a bad effect upon me.

 

One could ask the lost and saved alike about how I am around them and hear the same thing, "friendly, polite, cheerful, helpful" and that sort of thing.

 

As was mentioned elsewhere, saved folks and the lost have (or should have) little in common and much different leanings. That in itself helps to eliminate the problem of who ones friends are going to be.

[GraceSaved]

Look again at who Jesus' friends were. His closest friends were Peter, James and John.

 

Jesus took the Gospel to sinners but He didn't pal around with them, He didn't make friends with them. Jesus was friendly toward sinners but He didn't make sinners His friends.

 

If we accept the idea of having lost friends, then we must either cast out various verses which warn against such, say they don't apply today, or ignore them.

 

I'm friendly with the lost. In times past I had lost friends and exactly what Scripture warns of happened; their sinfulness had a bad effect upon me.

 

One could ask the lost and saved alike about how I am around them and hear the same thing, "friendly, polite, cheerful, helpful" and that sort of thing.

 

As was mentioned elsewhere, saved folks and the lost have (or should have) little in common and much different leanings. That in itself helps to eliminate the problem of who ones friends are going to be.

You're forgetting Judas Iscariot was on of the 12 and in close proximity with Jesus for 3 yrs.  Is that what Christianity is?  Polite, friendly, cheerful, helpful?  You can get that from the world.  Is that what Jesus was to the lost?

[John81]

The point being, I don't treat the lost as enemies, I don't speak down to the lost, I don't yell at them, I treat them the same as saved folks; respectfully. 

 

Remember that Judas Iscariot was there as part of God's overall plan in a very unique situation specific to Christ.

 

When we look to the commands given to Christians on how to live it's very clear our close associations are to be with our brothers/sisters in Christ. We are not to form close associations with the lost. James 4:4 is just one of the many verses which makes this clear. Be not unequally yoked, while so often used with regards to marriage, is not speaking directly of marriage, but to all associations. What friendship hath light with darkness, Christ with Belial.

[GraceSaved]

The point being, I don't treat the lost as enemies, I don't speak down to the lost, I don't yell at them, I treat them the same as saved folks; respectfully. 

 

Remember that Judas Iscariot was there as part of God's overall plan in a very unique situation specific to Christ.

 

When we look to the commands given to Christians on how to live it's very clear our close associations are to be with our brothers/sisters in Christ. We are not to form close associations with the lost. James 4:4 is just one of the many verses which makes this clear. Be not unequally yoked, while so often used with regards to marriage, is not speaking directly of marriage, but to all associations. What friendship hath light with darkness, Christ with Belial.

I don't believe the "world" is referring to individual friendships/relationships with people but to a world system or worldview that is against God. The first three verses indicate that by stating there was fighting among them because of their lusts.  They were trying to gain worldly wisdom rather than wisdom from God.  That's why when they asked, they didn't receive.  That's why they were called adulterers and adulteresses.  In essence, they were cheating on God and his ways and seeking after the world's ways.   

[GraceSaved]

My 13 year old daughter trusted information to me that one of her close school friends admitted she was gay.  She could have chosen to hide that info in fear I would have separated them and no longer allow them to be friends.  But because she trusted me, I was able to share with her what the Word says on the matter, otherwise it may not have been brought up.  Sure, we read it in Bible studies, but head knowledge is different than heart knowledge.  Now while I am not going to send my daughter to a gay parade, Now perhaps my daughter can learn from what I taught her and impart that to her friend.  There is some sheltering and some letting go.

 

This makes me think of the woman at the well. Jesus was talking to a Samaritan woman.  A half-breed Jew.  Half Jew, half Gentile.  A woman.  A second class citizen of that day.  Promiscuous.  Jesus didn't judge her for her promiscuity.  He brought it up to show her she was thirsting for something and sex wasn't going to quench her desire.  He offered her living water and she would thirst no more.  She was the first person whom Jesus showed that he was the Messiah.   When she accepted what he had to offer, she went to declare it to her village.  The people of her village invited Jesus to stay with them for 2 days.  It sounds like more than inviting people to church or handing out tracts, or praying for the lost in the privacy of our homes, not that those things are bad. Jesus was personal.

 

Lost people living sinful lives are thirsty.  They're trying to quench their thirst with the ways of the world.  Are we going to offer them living water or are we going to separate ourselves so they don't rub off on us.  If the world is rubbing off on us more than we are on them, then it's time to back up and examine our maturity and relationship with Christ.

[TheSword]

Consider also 2 Timothy 3:1-5

 

¹This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

² For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

³ Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

⁴ Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

⁵ Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

God doesn't say become their best friends to win them, He says to turn away from them. What's being lost in the conversation here is the balance that has be struck between loving the lost and wayward in a friendly manner to bring them to Christ and keeping separated from them and their ways.

 

Additionally what is being lost is that all of this is good exhortation for the adult, but this thread is about children who have no ability to discern the gray areas of life. They see in black and white. The reason we (at least I) are saying not to let our children have gay (or insert alternate lifestyle here) friends is because they see "I like my friend. My friend is good. The things my friend does are good. I want to do those things with my friend." They do not have the ability to reason through which behaviors are acceptable and which are not. Children are not evangelists; they are fresh, unmolded clay and we, the parents, are the ones granting access to the wheel where they're being shaped. If you want your child to incorporate all types of worldly or sinful behaviors, then by all means let them befriend and play with whomever strikes their fancy. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord and I will raise godly children by surrounding them with godly influences.

[DaveW]

Hey Sword - this is sort of what I was getting at.

If all they hear is "they are all wicked horrible people" etc then when they find a nice person who is a homosexual, they will wonder what else you have lied to them about.

We need to show our kids from Scripture that what these people are doing is against God, but we need to show them also that they live like that because they are sinners.

If they understand that concept, then when - not if mind you - when they meet a homosexual they won't be thinking "they are actually a nice person in spite of what I was always told", they will think "they are another person who lives at odds with God's will, and they need to be saved".

We need to hide the activity from our kids, but prepare them for when they meet them later in their life.

[GraceSaved]

Sword, 

 

Would it be the right thing to do to disown your own child if she/he was gay?  I hope the answer is no.  How would you feel if your child was gay and all her/his friends stopped associating with her/him?  Why would we ask our child to disown a friend when that friend now needs them the most after they confessed?  Would they ever confess anything to anyone again?  Would they ever trust another Christian?

[Jeffrey]

Not to get into your parenting business too deeply,(but your going to any way) but it is the subject of the thread...there is the old maxim that what our children see as do (or deem acceptable) they will at some point do (or deem acceptable) in excess.Not always true. My wife can tell you that she grew up in an unsaved,un Christian home.Her parents drink wine at most meals(dinner, I mean) and she can tell you she has never seen her parents drunk. in the 17 years I have known my wife, I have never seen anyone in her family drunk. You see this is what I talk about with the IFB and in my years in it. They see someone doing something they don't agree with and it must be "ob da debil", even though as I showed in the alcohol post, there is nothing wrong with it, it's a blessing from God. thats what I teach them. I don't personally think it's inevitable, but it does greatly increase the likelihood. By normalizing behaviors or choices as acceptable in any capacity translates to total acceptance in the mind of a child (depending on the age of course). With the alcohol example, your children see that alcohol is ok to drink. How do you teach them that it is not ok in excess and keep them from ever becoming drunk? Simple, we tell them it's sin to get drunk, like overeating and gorging ourselves, or staring at a girl's backside or scoping the "talent" at church If you can't do that then all you've done is place a stumbling block before them. Similarly with having homosexual friends, by giving that lifestyle choice any amount of acceptability via allowing them to have friendly relationships with them puts in their mind that since their friend is ok then their choice is ok as well. Nowhere have I or anyone else said it was ok or given it an amount of acceptability. Only you have claimed this It is particularly hard to get around in this case because they will have such a positive view of their friend (that's why they chose them as a friend to begin with) that the rational part of the human mind will whitewash the issue. I've seen it happen on multiple occasions and in fact have a cousin who grew up in a solid Baptist home compromises her beliefs on this issue because she had a close friend who was gay in college. The things we endorse to our children, we do so wholesale and can nowise do it piecemeal.Who is endorsing anything? Who is saying this? this is false on your behalf.

 

Approval of a friendship is tacit approval of the friend as they are. Would you encourage your children to be friends with a drug addict because they're overall a nice person and we should look past the sins they choose to wrap themselves in? Would you encourage your children to befriend someone who practices wicca because they have other redeeming qualities? Or would you see those devient behaviors and encourage your children to find other friends because you don't want them to pick up those influences? If you were listening, I was saying all along that we are to be kind and loving to all people, especially when presenting the Gospel, being friendly and actually being a true friend are two different things. This is what Peter was talking about when he said that we give an answer with gentleness and respect.

[Jeffrey]

I have two children with which Biblical instruction 'took' and they have no friends who are actively involved in the lustful practice of homosexual behavior. These two children are saved and reject the practice of homosexual lust based on the Bible. Homosexuals don't seem to frequent the places my saved children frequent; i.e. their local church, men's retreats, etc. These two saved children prefer the fellowship/friendship of like-minded Christians; this limits opportunity for homosexual contact since homosexuals predominantly associate with other worldly folk such as the abortionists, socialists, drug use advocates, etc. 

How do you know this, can you read minds? do you see into peoples hearts? How do you know that one of your children's friends are not a "closet homosexual"? It is a deep rooted sin the effects people from all walks of life, saved and unsaved. the fact is you have no idea who is struggling with what. I hate to hear when Pastors or lay people brag about how God is blessing their ministry and there are no big problems going on at his church, all this tells me that he/they doesn't know his/their people well enough

[GraceSaved]

Jeffrey,

 

Football is ob da debil.  LOL!

[Jeffrey]

Jeffrey,

 

Football is ob da debil.  LOL!

you are definitely back-slidden!!!

[TheSword]

Hey Sword - this is sort of what I was getting at.

If all they hear is "they are all wicked horrible people" etc then when they find a nice person who is a homosexual, they will wonder what else you have lied to them about.

We need to show our kids from Scripture that what these people are doing is against God, but we need to show them also that they live like that because they are sinners.

If they understand that concept, then when - not if mind you - when they meet a homosexual they won't be thinking "they are actually a nice person in spite of what I was always told", they will think "they are another person who lives at odds with God's will, and they need to be saved".

We need to hide the activity from our kids, but prepare them for when they meet them later in their life.

 

100% agree.