Creation - Genesis 1 & 2, Teaches The Plan Of Salvation & Redemption, But How Many Knew This?

[MountainChristian]

How did the 7th day people get so far off track?

[candlelight]

One of my first cousins married a 7th Day Adventist.  She was a non practicing Roman Catholic.  After searching for truth, they ended up in a Baptist church.  He got saved before he passed on.  She is saved, and so is her oldest sister who is dying of cancer.  She had a Baptist wedding for her oldest son and his wife.

Per usual, if I try to witness to her older brother, he changes the subject on me.  He has also unfriended me on Facebook.  I am used to this, though.  Two other first cousins, on my dad's side of the family, unfriended and blocked me on Facebook.  The people of the RCC are so difficult to witness to.  Thankfully, this cousin and her husband were saved after leaving the SDA for a Baptist church.  Praise the Lord!

[John81]

All of the SDA I know, except for one, was "born and raised" in the SDA. This is how many folks come to be in the churches they are in whether Baptist, Church of God, Methodist, Lutheran, etc.

 

Many are either lost folks who think they are good with God or they are immature believers who remain that way. Considering what passes for preaching and teaching in many churches, it's little wonder.

[banner over me was love]

I am astounded at the arguments put forth here.

Six days - word study, context, simple reading, cross referencing ALL clearly talk of six literal 24 hour days.

And salvation simply doesn't make sense if there was death before sin.

Just shaking my head.......

I agree with you, they are 6 literal 24 days, including the 7th which the majority of 'creationists' conveniently 'forget', though God said, "Remember..."

 

...I am also agreeing with you in that I am not saying death existed before sin.

 

This thread is not detracting from that at all, but revealing that there is more there.

 

Just as the Life of Abraham reveals Jesus Christ, just as the Life of Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, etc.  it was not merely about those literal persons, but something in them far greater concerning Jesus.

 

Abram came from a far country to bring his family into the promised land, and he is wealthy and has many servants. He, whose name was changed to Abraham (father of a multitude) was to have a miracle child, a child of promise. This child of promise's name was Isaac, meaning 'laughter', being a joyful noise (and in Jesus we have the good news (gospel), and rejoicing, as far back as Genesis 3:15). Abraham at this point being an ancient of days (a representation of the Father), takes his only son of promise to be the sacrifice (Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father). Isaac is a willing and obedient son to his father, and goes willingly (Jesus says, "Not my will be done..."). Abraham travels with several servants and a donkey (a beast of burden), but at a certain point the servants are left behind, watching from afar (even as the angels watched from afar, unable to interfere), and Isaac then carries the wood of the sacrifice upon his back (Jesus carries the cross). The Father and the Son travels 3 days to Mt. Moriah (aka where Jerusalem is) and 1/2 up the mountain (Jesus for 3 1/2 years ministered). Isaac (the son of promise) asks where is the Lamb for the sacrifice? And Abraham says prophetically, "My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering..." (Jesus is the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world, and He layeth down His life). At the top of the mountain, Isaac willingly is bound and taken to be the sacrifice (Jesus allows Himself to be taken and bound). And as in type can only represent reality so far, Isaac, the son of Abraham is spared, only to have in his place a Ram (a male Sheep). This Ram (a male sheep in adulthood) whose head and horns were caught in a thicket, a thorn bush (Jesus, in his adulthood was crowned with thorns, a symbol of sin and sacrificed). A great deal more of the life of Jesus may be seen in the life of Abraham, and many other patriarchs and peoples of the scripture. Abraham has a wife brought out of Babylon for His Son and she too has a miracle birth (of which there are 7 miracle births in scripture). A woman in these scenarios represent the church/people of God, who were brought out of Babylon and taken into the promised land. Abraham goes down into Egypt and comes out far more blessed. Abraham goes and rescues his relatives and those of Sodom and Gomorrah (sinful wicked people) from captivity, being mightily victorious, and does not bring them back to their original places, but brings them instead unto Salem (later aka Jerusalem), and is met by the Highpriest and King of Righteousness of the city of Peace.

There are many more such scenes in the lives of these of the OT, like Adam, Enoch, Noah, Moses, Aaron, Jacob, especially Joseph, Joshua, Melchizedek, Jesse, David, Solomon, Samson, and so on and so forth. Read these events and see that Christ Jesus is in every one of them, for He is not only in them, but also in the Psalms, in the Prophecies, all throughout.

The love of God is seen throughout, in that He has always been loving, tender, compassionate, mindful, ever caring, working for our salvation. He has seen the end from the beginning... He has come down in such love to save us from our sins...

 

 

 

As is the case with Abraham, now let us consider Joseph:

In the events of Jospeh's life is so clearly seen the life of the Messias Jesus, that it is truly something to behold. At the beginning and ending of Jesus own life there was a Joseph (a step father; husband to Mary) and Joseph of Arimathea and thus we have the life of Jesus capped on both ends with Joseph. Joseph is given dreams, and the step father of Jesus is also given dreams.

Joseph is the first born of Rachel (Rachel means a "ewe", a female Lamb, she bares a male, in type the "male lamb", firstborn) (Jesus is the Lamb of God), and Joseph is a miracle child for Rachel at first bare no children (even as other patricarchs wives before her) (Jesus is a miracle child, the 7th in scripture). Joseph's name means "YHVH will add" (and Rachel also had a second son, Benjamin, meaning "Son of the Right Hand"), and so we have in these two names, coming from the "ewe", "YHVH has added [to me] the Son of His Right Hand" (as we may see in Genesis 30:24, 35:24), and as we consider the very names found given in the scriptures, we see a special order given in Revelation 7 of those names of the sons of Jacob (see below).

Joseph is the beloved son of Jacob (Israel) and is given a robe (garment of character) of many colors (the very symbol of the everlasting covenant, rainbow) even in his "old age", he being a representative of the "ancient of days" with a special son (Jesus is the only begotten son of the Father, who is the one who made the everlasting covenant, for he is the messenger of the covenant):

Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he [was] the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of [many] colours. Genesis 37:3

Joseph was special in that he was specially chosen of God, and was given visions of prophecy and future glory, and able to interpret them (Jesus is a prophet, foretold even by Moses to come, for as Jesus said, "Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am [he]." John 13:19; He tells the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:9-10), notice that the word "[he]" is not present in the Greek, and realize what is actually being said), and all would bow to him (even as it is said of Jesus, "...That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Philippians 2:10 ).

In the scriptures, it is interesting to note that in the life of Joseph, the scripture records no specific sin of his (though scripture is clear that all except Christ Jesus have sinned), but scripture makes the correlation that Joseph is the type of He who was to come, spotless. Joseph loved his family, his father and brothers, even though his brothers were cruel unto him and hated him.

Jospeh (the son) is sent by the Father (Israel, the ancient of days) unto His brethren, of whom he is related by flesh:

And Israel said unto Joseph, Do not thy brethren feed [the flock] in Shechem? come, and I will send thee unto them. And he said to him, Here [am I]. Genesis 37:13

The brothers of Joseph, because of envy and jealousy and pride, plotted to be rid of him, even kill him (even as seen of the Pharisees, Saduccess, Scribes in the days of Christ Jesus as they did to him):

And when they saw him afar off, even before he came near unto them, they conspired against him to slay him. Genesis 37:18

Come now therefore, and let us slay him, and cast him into some pit, and we will say, Some evil beast hath devoured him: and we shall see what will become of his dreams. Genesis 37:20

Joseph was taken, thrown into a pit, a hole (Jesus placed in a pit, and into a grave), and his robes are torn and covered in the blood of a killed kid of goat (goat is the symbol of the sin offering, as it is on the day of atonement; Leviticus 16; Christ Jesus it is said, "For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin..." 2 Corinthians 5:21), and though Joseph did not die there (though in the events he is made to be dead), in type he comes out alive of the pit (Jesus too comes out of the grave alive) and is exalted (even as Joseph was exalted over the whole house of Pharoah).

A word of prophetic utterance given by Judah:

And Judah said unto his brethren, What profit [is it] if we slay our brother, and conceal his blood? Genesis 37:26

And then the following:

And they took Joseph's coat, and killed a kid of the goats, and dipped the coat in the blood; Genesis 37:31 (see also Jesus, "And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God." Revelation 19:13), Jesus was stripped of his robe (pure white robe, perfect righteousness) and even a scarlet robe was placed upon him (And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe. Matthew 27:28). The blood stained robe is presented to the Father (Israel), to cover the sin of Josephs brethren in what they had done to the favored son.

Joseph is betrayed by his brethren, and sold for the price of a slave in the amount of silver (in this instance, 20 (room for inflation), but in the events of Samson, 30 pieces); and Christ Jesus is betrayed into the hands of the enemy and sold for the price of a slave, 30 pieces of silver. Prophecy and typology combine perfectly. Even as Judah betrayed, Judas betrayed.

Notice that he was taken down into Egypt (Hosea 11:; Matthew 2:15), and even by those that were carrying "spices, balm and myrrh" (Genesis 37:25), even as Jesus before going down into Egypt as a small child, was met by the wisemen of the east, which brought before him, "gold and frankincense and myrrh" (Matthew 2:11).

Joseph is tempted by a seducer, and is yet victorious over temptation, though he is falsely charged of crime and sin and is later vindicated. Jesus was victorious over all temptation and falsely charged and is vindicated.

Joseph is then cast into prison (representative again of the grave), and is seen as being condemned between two other men (cupbearer and baker) and with the wicked, one of the two men is restored and the other condemned to death, even as the two thieves upon the crosses next to Christ Jesus, one will be restored in the resurrection to come, and the other is lost.

Joseph is then brought before Pharoah, and prophcies of coming disaster, and yet Joseph is in the position to be able to save them all from dying, and so is made ruler over all of his household, bearing authority, at the age of 30 and even raised up as Judge over his brethren. Jesus too, as prophecy and typology foretells (Numbers 4) that Jesus too would be 30 years of Age at the beginning of His ministry (AD 27), the age a man had to be to begin the priestly work in the tabernacle and is the "Judge of all the earth".

Joseph tests his brothers by a cup, and even gives to them of the money they paid for their bread. Jesus at the last supper also has a cup, and even speaks to James and John of the cup they were to drink from, even as Christ Jesus drank from the cup that the Father had given Him to drink. Christ Jesus offers salvation realy, without price, and cannot be bought with any amount.

Joseph forgives his brethren and feeds them all, and the whole land (vast multitudes) grain (bread) even in the time of famine, and though testing their loyalty, and to see if they have had a change of heart, reveals himself to them when He sees their converted hearts, and kisses them. He brings them all into the land of plenty and the fertile plains and there is great rejoicing. Jesus asks of the Father forgiveness for his people, and dying is the sacrifice for sin, so that we too may be taken into the land of plenty and fertile plains. Jesus is that manna, that bread, from Heaven, which feedeth His people of the true bread of life, the words of God, Jesus feeds the multitudes.

Joseph is for a time separated from the Father, but is restored. Christ Jesus upon the Cross is too separated from the Father (Psalms 22), but is restored.

Joseph's bones and body were carefully preserved and protected, and were not to be buried in Egypt, even as Christ Jesus, being that uncorrupted manna that is preserved forever (saw no corruption), no bones were broken (even as the type of the passover Lamb), and his body carefully taken down from the cross and preserved by Jospeh of Arimathea and others. Joseph was a shepherd for the flocks of His father, Jesus is the Good Shepherd.

Jospeh was not immediately recognized by his brethren and treated as a stranger, Jesus came unto His own (the people He chose out for himself), and His own knew him not. Even upon the road to Emaus, later he was only known in the breaking of Bread. Both were filled by the Holy Spirit of God, and through the providence and guidance and foresight of God, were to save many from destruction. Even the 7 years of famine and plenty are also realized in the life and ministry of Jesus Christ, for 3 1/2 years by His own preaching, and then through those who heard him for another 3 1/2 years (Hebrews 2:3), completing the final week of Daniel in AD 34.

Rachel dies in Bethlehem Ephrath ("And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which [is] Bethlehem." Genesis 35:19; "And as for me, when I came from Padan, Rachel died by me in the land of Canaan in the way, when yet [there was] but a little way to come unto Ephrath: and I buried her there in the way of Ephrath; the same [is] Bethlehem." Genesis 48:7) , the very place where Christ Jesus is born and foretold ("But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting." Michah 5:2; see also Matthew 2:1-6; John 7:42). Bethlehem means the "house of bread", and Jesus (he being the Bread of Life) was born in a manger (a place for feed/grain).

There is no doubt the providence of God leading in the Life of Joseph to point us unto Jesus Christ, and more could be said and seen in that life, but there are now others we may look at and see, that Christ Jesus truly is all throughout the scriptures.

As promised (from above, the names of the sons of Israel, as seen specifically given in Revelation 7):

(Revelation 7, names order and meanings)

Of the tribe of Juda [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand. Revelation 7:5

Of the tribe of Aser [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses [were] sealed twelve thousand. Revelation 7:6

Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand. Revelation 7:7

Of the tribe of Zabulon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand. Revelation 7:7

13 Tribes; 1 with no inheritance, 1 with double inheritance.

Revelation 7 Names in Specificly Given Order:

Judah = "Jew" = "I Will Praise The Lord" (Genesis 29:35)

And she conceived again, and bare a son: and she said, Now will I praise the LORD: therefore she called his name Judah; and left bearing.

Reuben = "Behold A Son" = "He Has Looked On Me" (Genesis 29:32)

And Leah conceived, and bare a son, and she called his name Reuben: for she said, Surely the LORD hath looked upon my affliction; now therefore my husband will love me.

Gad = "Troop" = "Given Good Fortune" (Genesis 30:11)

And Leah said, A troop cometh: and she called his name Gad.

Asher = "Happy" = "Happy Am I" (Genesis 30:13)

And Leah said, Happy am I, for the daughters will call me blessed: and she called his name Asher.

Naphtali = "Wrestling" = "My Wrestling" (Genesis 30:8)

And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali.

Manasseh = "Causing To Forget" = "Is Making Me To Forget" (Genesis 41:51)

And Joseph called the name of the firstborn Manasseh: For God, [said he], hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house.

Simeon = "Heard" = "God Hears Me" (Genesis 29:33)

And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, Because the LORD hath heard that I [was] hated, he hath therefore given me this [son] also: and she called his name Simeon.

Levi ** = "Joined To" = "Is Attached To Me" (Genesis 29:34)

And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, Now this time will my husband be joined unto me, because I have born him three sons: therefore was his name called Levi.

Issachar = "There Is Recompense" = "He Has Purchased Me" (Genesis 30:18)

And Leah said, God hath given me my hire, because I have given my maiden to my husband: and she called his name Issachar.

Zebulun = "Exalted" = "A Dwelling" (Genesis 30:20)

And Leah said, God hath endued me [with] a good dowry; now will my husband dwell with me, because I have born him six sons: and she called his name Zebulun.

Ephraim * = "Double Ash Heap" = "I Shall Be Doubly Fruitful" (Genesis 41:52)

And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.

Joseph = "Jehovah Was Added" = "God Will Add To Me" (Genesis 30:24)

And she called his name Joseph; and said, The LORD shall add to me another son

Benjamin = "Son Of The Right Hand" = "Son Of His Right Hand" (Genesis 35:17,18)

And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also. And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

Dan * = "A Judge" (Genesis 30:6)

And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.

And therefore, by the special list given in Revelation we see the meaning:

I Will Praise The LORD [for] He Has Looked On Me [and] Granted Good Fortune. Happy Am I [because] My Wrestling, God Is Making Me To Forget. God Hears Me [and] Is Attached To Me. He has Purchased Me A Dwelling [and] Will Add To Me The Son Of His Right Hand.

Or

Now I Will Praise The LORD [for] Surely The LORD Hath Looked Upon My Affliction [and] Granted Good Fortune [therefore] Happy Am I [even though] With Great Wrestlings Have I Wrestled [but] God Is Making Me To Forget All My Toil [for] the LORD Hath Heard Me [being] Joined Unto Me [and] He Has Purchased Me [wanting] To Dwell With Me [and] The LORD Shall Add To Me [also] The Son Of His Right Hand.

 

 

The same thing may be seen in the lives of all the OT, like David, Samson, etc.

 

The same with Genesis.  I am not negating the Literal part which is the foundation.

[banner over me was love]

The origin of sin began with Satan's pride (Isaiah 14:12-14).    Sin entered the world through Adam's disobedience (Genesis 3; Romans 5:12).

 

Sin brought death....there was no death before sin entered the world.

 

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Correct.

 

Yet, why did Lucifer rebel?

[banner over me was love]

 

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.        1 Corinthians 2:6-8

 

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;

which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:                                                                    Colossians 1:25-26

 

If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his

holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body,

and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:                                                     Ephesians 3:2-6

 

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ,

according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,   Romans 16:25

 

The Gospel of Grace (through Faith) was revealed to the Apostle Paul. 

Only the Body of Christ is sealed with the Holy Spirit.

 

Did you know that the Holy Spirit not only Seals us, but that He seals something in us?  That Seal of the Living God is found in His Holy Law - as it reveals His Name/Character, His Title/Authority and Dominion/Territory.

 

Read Ezekiel 9 and Isaiah 8:16 and Revelation 7:2.

[banner over me was love]

One of my first cousins married a 7th Day Adventist.  She was a non practicing Roman Catholic.  After searching for truth, they ended up in a Baptist church.  He got saved before he passed on.  She is saved, and so is her oldest sister who is dying of cancer.  She had a Baptist wedding for her oldest son and his wife.

Per usual, if I try to witness to her older brother, he changes the subject on me.  He has also unfriended me on Facebook.  I am used to this, though.  Two other first cousins, on my dad's side of the family, unfriended and blocked me on Facebook.  The people of the RCC are so difficult to witness to.  Thankfully, this cousin and her husband were saved after leaving the SDA for a Baptist church.  Praise the Lord!

I am not like that.  I will speak with you when you desire.    Feel free to witness all you want.  I will listen, and then open my KJV Bible to show you, if you will listen...

 

ps, people do not "study their way out of the Adventist movement", they "don't study" their way out of it. 

[banner over me was love]

All of the SDA I know, except for one, was "born and raised" in the SDA. This is how many folks come to be in the churches they are in whether Baptist, Church of God, Methodist, Lutheran, etc.

 

Many are either lost folks who think they are good with God or they are immature believers who remain that way. Considering what passes for preaching and teaching in many churches, it's little wonder.

I was not born and raised Seventh-day Adventist.

 

No one is born into this world a Christian, they must be "born again" into the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

Did you consider the presentation under the last point?

 

I may assure you, by two things, the word of the oath/promise of God, and God who cannot lie, that I am not lost, for I know in whom I believe and follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth, yes, even by faith into the Heavenly, where He, even now ministers in the Most Holy Place, in the anti-typical day of atonement.

[banner over me was love]

How did the 7th day people get so far off track?

Hi, I see it as the other way round. 

 

Feel free to ask questions, let us look together in scripture.

[John81]

I was only speaking to how some come to be in certain churches, not whether or not they are saved.

[banner over me was love]

I was only speaking to how some come to be in certain churches, not whether or not they are saved.

Yes, I agree with you, that there are many 'Christians', that do not really know why they are Christian, having no personal relationship/experience with Jesus, and there are many of their faiths [yes, and truly sadly, even weepingly so, among the Seventh-day Adventists, for we are Laodicea] that have no idea why they are of that faith.

 

And so, the Parable of Luke 16, Rich Man and Lazarus is for these, who say they have such and such for their father.  There is no such thing as a second [etc]- generation Christian, neither second [etc]-generation Seventh-day Adventist.

 

No offense meant to you, I was merely stating my own position. 

 

Did you have any questions or statements about the OP or anything replied afterward?

[beameup]

Nehemiah, cup-bearer to King Artaxerxes, is sad because the walls of Jerusalem lay in ruins.  Nehemiah ch 1-2

 

"the wall of Jerusalem also is broken down, and the gates thereof are burned with fire."  Nehemiah 1:3b

 

"And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king, that wine was before him: and I took up the wine,

and gave it unto the king. Now I had not been beforetime sad in his presence. 

Wherefore the king said unto me, Why is thy countenance sad, seeing thou art not sick? this is nothing else but sorrow of heart.

Then I was very sore afraid, And said unto the king, Let the king live for ever: why should not my countenance be sad, when the city,

the place of my fathers' sepulchres, lieth waste, and the gates thereof are consumed with fire?

Then the king said unto me, For what dost thou make request? So I prayed to the God of heaven.

And I said unto the king, If it please the king, and if thy servant have found favour in thy sight, that thou wouldest send me unto Judah,

unto the city of my fathers' sepulchres, that I may build it. And the king said unto me, (the queen also sitting by him,)

For how long shall thy journey be? and when wilt thou return? So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time. 

Moreover I said unto the king, If it please the king, let letters be given me to the governors beyond the river, that they may convey

me over till I come into Judah;  And a letter unto Asaph the keeper of the king's forest, that he may give me timber to make beams

for the gates of the palace which appertained to the house, and for the wall of the city, and for the house that I shall enter into.

And the king granted me, according to the good hand of my God upon me."  Nehemiah 2:1-8  (see Nehemiah ch 1-6)

 

"in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king"

 

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment

to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks,

and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

Daniel 9:25 (read the "fine print")

 

[banner over me was love]

 

Nehemiah, cup-bearer to King Artaxerxes, is sad because the walls of Jerusalem lay in ruins.  Nehemiah ch 1-2

 

the wall of Jerusalem also is broken down, and the gates thereof are burned with fire.  Nehemiah 1:3b

 

And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king, that wine was before him: and I took up the wine,

and gave it unto the king. Now I had not been beforetime sad in his presence. 

Wherefore the king said unto me, Why is thy countenance sad, seeing thou art not sick? this is nothing else but sorrow of heart.

Then I was very sore afraid, And said unto the king, Let the king live for ever: why should not my countenance be sad, when the city,

the place of my fathers' sepulchres, lieth waste, and the gates thereof are consumed with fire?

Then the king said unto me, For what dost thou make request? So I prayed to the God of heaven.

And I said unto the king, If it please the king, and if thy servant have found favour in thy sight, that thou wouldest send me unto Judah,

unto the city of my fathers' sepulchres, that I may build it. And the king said unto me, (the queen also sitting by him,)

For how long shall thy journey be? and when wilt thou return? So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time. 

Moreover I said unto the king, If it please the king, let letters be given me to the governors beyond the river, that they may convey

me over till I come into Judah;  And a letter unto Asaph the keeper of the king's forest, that he may give me timber to make beams

for the gates of the palace which appertained to the house, and for the wall of the city, and for the house that I shall enter into.

And the king granted me, according to the good hand of my God upon me.  Nehemiah 2:1-8  (see Nehemiah ch 1-6)

 

"in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king"

 

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment

to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks,

and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

 

 

Hi,

 

"Commandment" or "Decree" of Daniel 9 is not "letters" of Nehemiah and Artaxerxes I Longimanus in 444 BC.  I have studied this thoroughly, and if you want detail we may look together.  I have already begun a new thread on Daniel and Revelation, but please, let us not jump ahead, and move slowly.  Never in Nehemiah, does it ever call the "letters" a decree or command.  Additionally those letters were for specifics, which we may get into.

 

Also "the street" did not mean streets.  It means the center place for judgment, which Israel already had under the decree of 457 BC, in the 7th Year of Artaxerxes I Longimanus.

 

Notice that the walls were in ruins.  Why?  Read Nehemiah carefully.

 

Please read Ezra 6:4

 

And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia. Ezra 6:4

 

That decree finalized in Ezra 7, but in order to understand this, we would have to start from the beginning.  Too many want to jump straight into the middle, without any foundation to begin with.

[beameup]

 

 

And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia. Ezra 6:4

 

That decree finalized in Ezra 7, but in order to understand this, we would have to start from the beginning.  Too many want to jump straight into the middle, without any foundation to begin with.

"the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes"

There is a good reason why 7th Day Adventests are in error and not respected in Baptist circles.

 

"Fishing" and "Baiting" in a Baptist Forum will get no response from me. 

 

I started studying the CULTS in 1962 and attended the Bible study led by Walter Martin

(founder of Christian Research Institute) in the '80s.

[banner over me was love]

"the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes"

There is a good reason why 7th Day Adventests are in error and not respected in Baptist circles.

Hi:

 

And there went up some of the children of Israel, and of the priests, and the Levites, and the singers, and the porters, and the Nethinims, unto Jerusalem, in the seventh year of Artaxerxes the king. Ezra 7:7

 

Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time. Ezra 7:12

 

I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee. Ezra 7:13

 

And I, even I Artaxerxes the king, do make a decree to all the treasurers which are beyond the river, that whatsoever Ezra the priest, the scribe of the law of the God of heaven, shall require of you, it be done speedily, Ezra 7:21

 

Show me "decree" or such a "commandment" in Nehemiah from Artaxeres.