Preacher's Qualifications

[ASongOfDegrees]

Okay, but that interpretation would mean that only the Apostles were supposed to go preach. They're all dead. Now what?

It's a little bit of both. Dotrinally the passage was specifically aimed at the apostles but I see no reason it can't be applied to the whole church in a practical sense (except for the part about drinking poison and handling snakes).

[Standing Firm In Christ]

It's a little bit of both. Dotrinally the passage was specifically aimed at the apostles but I see no reason it can't be applied to the whole church in a practical sense (except for the part about drinking poison and handling snakes).

You mean you don't drink poison and handle snakes??????!!!!!!!

[John81]

I've known of several churches that have sabotaged lay preachers who were obviously serving the Lord and reaping much fruit for the kingdom.

[wretched]

I agree with most of this thread, my point is that we are all (male and female) commanded to preach Jesus to everyone we meet continuously.

 

Those who desire the office of a bishop, desire a good work. That I have no doubt and feel churches should respect their pastors and are under their authority but what I don't see anywhere in the NT is this mysterious call that men have made up over the years. It isn't there and this delusion of a "call" or singling out leads to being puffed up about it and not a servant to all.

Call it what it really is, a pastor wanted to be a pastor and did it based on the quals listed. Good for him but then don't look to men to be lifted up, Your reward is in Heaven.

[JerryNumbers]

I agree with most of this thread, my point is that we are all (male and female) commanded to preach Jesus to everyone we meet continuously.

 

Those who desire the office of a bishop, desire a good work. That I have no doubt and feel churches should respect their pastors and are under their authority but what I don't see anywhere in the NT is this mysterious call that men have made up over the years. It isn't there and this delusion of a "call" or singling out leads to being puffed up about it and not a servant to all.

Call it what it really is, a pastor wanted to be a pastor and did it based on the quals listed. Good for him but then don't look to men to be lifted up, Your reward is in Heaven.

 

I don't look to you to be lifted up nor anyone else, if you notice I go by Jerry, nothing in front nor behind my name. I'm only pastor of one church, the church that called me. With that said God puts the desire in the heart of the man, or men, that He calls to be pastors of His Son's New Testament Church through the use of the Holy Ghost.

 

And the Holy Ghost places the man He chooses to be pastor over a certain Church, that is if that Church is sentsive to the leading of the holy Ghost.

 

Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

 

Anyone who has never done a very through study of the Holy Ghost might be surprised at the number of things He does for us.

 

For instants

 

The Holy Ghost wants to 

 

lead & inspire the services at each new Testament Church.

Philippians 3:3; John 4:24

 

Lead the missionary work

Acts 8:29, 13:2,4; 16:6,7,10

 

to empower His preachers

1 Corinthians 2:4

 

warn its members

1 Timothy 4:1

 

to determine the churches decisions

Acts 15:28

 

to condemn or bless its efforts

Revelation 2:7,11,17,29

 

the Holy Ghost seals the salvation of the ones who has Jesus as Savior

Ephesians 1:13

 

Maybe that will help some understand that the Holy Ghost is doing its job, & each person at the moment they're saved  the Holy Ghost comes to dwell within them, forever. 1 Corinthians 9:13, 2 Timothy 1:14,  Ephesians 5:18

 

And help them to study out all the things the Holy Spirit wants to help us with.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I have no problem with women preaching.  (maybe due to the fact that I was Pentecostal before I was Baptist and often heard women preahing)  But I do have a problem with a woman being the pastor of a Church.  The Pastoral position belongs to man, as Paul wrote in his first epistle to Timothy.

I do not feel a woman preaching at a Church is "usurping authority" if the Pastor of the Church gives her permission to speak.

Near as I can tell, when Paul said "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.", he was giving his preference.  I believe this because he gave the Church at Corinth an entirely different message, saying when a woman prayed or prophesied, she must have her head covered.  He did not say it was wrong to prophesy. (preach, proclaim the Gospel)   He simply said the woman who prophesies must have her head covered.

I believe the key is "inspiration."  One of the definitions of the word "prophesy" is "to speak under inspiration."  One who is allowed to preach must be inspired by the Spirit of God to do so.  If God has given a woman a message, she should go to her pastor and share with him what God has revealed to her.  Then, if the pastor discerns the woman's message is given to her by the Spirit of God, he should allow her to share it with the congregation. 

[John81]

I have no problem with women preaching.  (maybe due to the fact that I was Pentecostal before I was Baptist and often heard women preahing)  But I do have a problem with a woman being the pastor of a Church.  The Pastoral position belongs to man, as Paul wrote in his first epistle to Timothy.

I do not feel a woman preaching at a Church is "usurping authority" if the Pastor of the Church gives her permission to speak.

Near as I can tell, when Paul said "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.", he was giving his preference.  I believe this because he gave the Church at Corinth an entirely different message, saying when a woman prayed or prophesied, she must have her head covered.  He did not say it was wrong to prophesy. (preach, proclaim the Gospel)   He simply said the woman who prophesies must have her head covered.

I believe the key is "inspiration."  One of the definitions of the word "prophesy" is "to speak under inspiration."  One who is allowed to preach must be inspired by the Spirit of God to do so.  If God has given a woman a message, she should go to her pastor and share with him what God has revealed to her.  Then, if the pastor discerns the woman's message is given to her by the Spirit of God, he should allow her to share it with the congregation. 

I've heard some Baptists who believe it's okay for a woman to preach outside of a church, but not inside a church.

 

Of course several Baptist churches that are not IFB allow not only women preaching inside a church, but also allow women pastors. This same thing is seen in many other churches these days as well.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I draw the line before a woman becomes a pastor... the Bible does too.

I don't mind a woman preaching in a Church.  As long as she has gotten permission to do so from the pastor.

Like I said, this is probably due to my upbringing.

[TheSword]

Wow, look at that can of worms all over the floor...

 

Jokes aside, I'm not sure a lengthy explanation on this subject would be fruitful here, but suffice it to say I disagree.  I believe the context and grammar of that passage supported by other passages of Scripture preclude women from leaing or teaching/preaching to to men in any official capacity.

[John81]

Wow, look at that can of worms all over the floor...

 

Jokes aside, I'm not sure a lengthy explanation on this subject would be fruitful here, but suffice it to say I disagree.  I believe the context and grammar of that passage supported by other passages of Scripture preclude women from leaing or teaching/preaching to to men in any official capacity.

What do you mean by "official capacity"?

 

Does this apply to within the church only or also in other settings?

 

What about women teaching young men, as is very common in Sunday school, Christian schools and other venues?

[TheSword]

What do you mean by "official capacity"?

 

Does this apply to within the church only or also in other settings?

 

What about women teaching young men, as is very common in Sunday school, Christian schools and other venues?

 

I would say official as in representing the church or it's spiritual authority. I think women make great teachers, but I believe the Bible teaches their roles in that capacity is limited to teaching or preaching to women and children. As far as teaching young men, I think perhaps it depends on what you're considering young men and at what age they're considered to be men and not boys. Personally (and not dogmatically), I think by the time they hit their teens they ought to be how to be godly men by godly men. Likewise, I think girls ought to be taught how to be godly women by godly women. Certainly it may not be possible for every church to split out their teen Sunday School classes, but I think it's the best approach.

[HappyChristian]

I would say official as in representing the church or it's spiritual authority. I think women make great teachers, but I believe the Bible teaches their roles in that capacity is limited to teaching or preaching to women and children. As far as teaching young men, I think perhaps it depends on what you're considering young men and at what age they're considered to be men and not boys. Personally (and not dogmatically), I think by the time they hit their teens they ought to be how to be godly men by godly men. Likewise, I think girls ought to be taught how to be godly women by godly women. Certainly it may not be possible for every church to split out their teen Sunday School classes, but I think it's the best approach.

  Just a couple of thoughts/questions: IMO (and this is strictly my opinion; my hubby isn't sure he shares it, but he kind of does), I think there is real merit to the idea of keeping the teens in with the adults for Sunday School, with the possible scenario of having a ladies' SS and a men's SS if a church can.  My reasoning for that is that I think too often we segregate by age to the harm of the children (yes, I'm including teens as children here).  Peer pressure is best insulated against when children/teens spend good quality/quantity time with godly adults.  (Now, just for the record, our church has a youth group, with the youth pastor teaching the entire group for SS.  I am not in any way criticizing our church or the way the SS is set up.)

 

Secondly, a question, Sword: in your opinion, is a woman usurping authority if it's a setting like a nursing home service where the man who is in charge has a woman teach a short story - whether Bible or practical - and there are men present in the congregation?  My personal belief (and my hubby's) is that, because the storytelling is done under the eye of the man in charge, it is not usurpation.  And he has stressed to the ladies that they are not to get preachy when they tell the story (or even when they testify - we had one lady who could definitely get that way...as can I if I'm not careful - but I bet nobody would guess that  ).  And I'm not looking to argue - just asking your opinion. 

 

Hmmm - and I'm sorry - I guess that is off topic...

[John81]

I agree with the need to have teens taught, mentored and discipled by adults. Too often teen Sunday school and youth groups serve to keep the teens acting and thinking more like children than adults. By the time children become 13 we should refer to them as young men and young women, making it clear we expect them to conduct themselves as such, and then helping them to put away childish things taking on adult responsibilities and qualities.

 

It's bad enough the lost world refers to murderous 17 year olds as kids and riotous 21 year olds as kids, but it's far worse when Christians follow the same practices and rather than training their children to become men and women of God, they raise them as the world to live in almost virtual childhood and dependence upon others.

 

I can still remember when our youngest son turned 13 and his mom said something about him being a "good boy" and he looked at her very seriously and said, "I'm not a boy, I'm a man now."

[Bro K]

  Just a couple of thoughts/questions: IMO (and this is strictly my opinion; my hubby isn't sure he shares it, but he kind of does), I think there is real merit to the idea of keeping the teens in with the adults for Sunday School, with the possible scenario of having a ladies' SS and a men's SS if a church can.  My reasoning for that is that I think too often we segregate by age to the harm of the children (yes, I'm including teens as children here).  Peer pressure is best insulated against when children/teens spend good quality/quantity time with godly adults.  (Now, just for the record, our church has a youth group, with the youth pastor teaching the entire group for SS.  I am not in any way criticizing our church or the way the SS is set up.)

 

Secondly, a question, Sword: in your opinion, is a woman usurping authority if it's a setting like a nursing home service where the man who is in charge has a woman teach a short story - whether Bible or practical - and there are men present in the congregation?  My personal belief (and my hubby's) is that, because the storytelling is done under the eye of the man in charge, it is not usurpation.  And he has stressed to the ladies that they are not to get preachy when they tell the story (or even when they testify - we had one lady who could definitely get that way...as can I if I'm not careful - but I bet nobody would guess that  ).  And I'm not looking to argue - just asking your opinion. 

 

Hmmm - and I'm sorry - I guess that is off topic...

the teens in with the adults for Sunday School Completely agree. Teenagers today deal with things outside the church that most of us never encountered as teens. Plus they know a lot more than we did at their age.

 

ladies' SS and a men's SS  Could this lead for the woman (teacher) to ursurp authority over the husbands; even though they are not physicially present. I like to know what my wife is being taught. I have a hard enough time as it is keeping her straight.

[TheSword]

  Just a couple of thoughts/questions: IMO (and this is strictly my opinion; my hubby isn't sure he shares it, but he kind of does), I think there is real merit to the idea of keeping the teens in with the adults for Sunday School, with the possible scenario of having a ladies' SS and a men's SS if a church can.  My reasoning for that is that I think too often we segregate by age to the harm of the children (yes, I'm including teens as children here).  Peer pressure is best insulated against when children/teens spend good quality/quantity time with godly adults.  (Now, just for the record, our church has a youth group, with the youth pastor teaching the entire group for SS.  I am not in any way criticizing our church or the way the SS is set up.)

 

Secondly, a question, Sword: in your opinion, is a woman usurping authority if it's a setting like a nursing home service where the man who is in charge has a woman teach a short story - whether Bible or practical - and there are men present in the congregation?  My personal belief (and my hubby's) is that, because the storytelling is done under the eye of the man in charge, it is not usurpation.  And he has stressed to the ladies that they are not to get preachy when they tell the story (or even when they testify - we had one lady who could definitely get that way...as can I if I'm not careful - but I bet nobody would guess that  ).  And I'm not looking to argue - just asking your opinion. 

 

Hmmm - and I'm sorry - I guess that is off topic...

 

I don't at all disagree with teens in the adult classes and think they would greatly benefit from adult instruction. However, I think there is also a necessity for a teen class as well. Teen boys (and likewise teen girls) have issues, problems, and questions that just don't come up often in an adult setting. I wholly agree that it should be about instruction at an adult level, but like all Sunday School classes, I believe they should be tailored (to some degree) to the needs of the class.

 

My opinion regarding the nursing home scenario is that it depends. What is the authority of the man? Is he a pastor or appointed representative of the church acting on the church's behalf? Is he just an event organizer and this little group is just a gathering of individuals with no official capacity? It boils down to the fact that whatever authority the supervising man has, he is delegating it to the speaker (a woman in this case) who then exercises it on his behalf. If the man has is exercising spiritual authority over this event, then I would say it is improper.