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Running Into Some Pelegians And Holiness/pentecostal Types


2T3:16

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I understand that it would be a very stressful life for one to fear losing salvation and end up in hell.  There is a fearful scripture in Hebrews 10:26: if we willfully sin after having received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins except a fearful looking for of judgement that will consume the adversaries.  The fearful looking is dreadful.  One can be so filled with fear that it would be impossible to have any faith after committing a sin.  All this is in the flesh and we are not to depend on our flesh for anything.  But to pull oneself out of that miry flesh is difficult.  If 'falling away' and 'apostasy' are different in that with one the fallen away one is still saved and with the other the apostate has lost salvation - that is how the Nazarenes believe.

If you're saying this verse indicates loss of salvation because of willful sin, then all are lost.  The "wilful sin" mentioned here was the Jews going back to Judaism after receiving the knowledge of the truth.  They heard the truth but never accepted it.  You get that if you read verse 39.

 

Ask yourself these questions.

 

If you can lose salvation...

 

What sin causes a person to lose it?

 

How does a person know when they've lost it?

 

How is salvation recovered?

 

Where in scripture is there an example of a true believer losing salvation and then being saved again?

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If you ask the Catholics that question they would say at least these two, Mary the mother of Jesus & Job.

Always wonder how they can claim these, since Mary gave a sin sacrifice of two turtledoves, and Job said to the Lord, "Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.". If these had no sin, Mary would not have given a vain sacrifice and Job would have had nothing to repent of.

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I understand that it would be a very stressful life for one to fear losing salvation and end up in hell. There is a fearful scripture in Hebrews 10:26: if we willfully sin after having received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins except a fearful looking for of judgement that will consume the adversaries. The fearful looking is dreadful. One can be so filled with fear that it would be impossible to have any faith after committing a sin. All this is in the flesh and we are not to depend on our flesh for anything. But to pull oneself out of that miry flesh is difficult. If 'falling away' and 'apostasy' are different in that with one the fallen away one is still saved and with the other the apostate has lost salvation - that is how the Nazarenes believe.


If the Nazarenes believe, as I'm understanding from your posts , that one has to not fall prey to sins (or certain sins?) after salvation in order to remain saved, then that is indeed a works salvation. It is faith + not sinning that ultimately gets them into heaven.

People seem to get all distracted in this issue. They focus on these egregious sins instead of focusing on Christ and His work. Jesus says that no man is able to pluck us out of His hand. No man means no man. Not even yourself.
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I've often wondered - How can God call it eternal life if it is not eternal?

If it is eternal life, then by definition it last forever. If God were to give you eternal life and then take it away then it was never eternal and God lied to you.

And if sinning is enough to lose it, what sin is bad enough?
Is murder or adultery bad enough but maybe not a "white lie"?

Because of course the list of sin in for instance Romans 1 puts disobedience to parents and boasting in the same list as murder........

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If Paul must ask "shall we sin that grace may abound" then that should tell you the grace of God is greater than your sin ... and Paul was concerned that their eternal security would encourage them to sin. Even those that sin Paul wouldn't directly say they were lost ... In 2 Corinthians Paul tells people they are sinning and need to repent and then in the next chapter tells them to examine themselves but does not say they are lost ... thus, Christians are expected to "live clean" and if they don't, have besetting sin, they need to check themselves if they are in the faith ... otherwise they can not call themselves christians = reprobate = not named as a believer.

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