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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Way Of Life - Bill Gaither's Disobedience To God's Word


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

As I asked before, I ask again, what did I say that run down IFB churches?

 

Have you contacted David Cloud and told him he's running down IFB churches for discussing what's going on within them?

 

I've answered that question. He is an IFB, your a member of a  nondenominational church, that is why I said your looking into the IFB Churches though the prejudices of being a member of a nondenominational on a forum that's for IFB.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The way I see it, is that John and others are just making statements about IFB churches.  What's wrong with that?  Don't we all do that?

Yes, I would contact David Cloud and let him know that what he is doing about talking badly about IFB churches is wrong.  Let's see how he responds, shall we?  :nuts:  

 

Yes, but I don't believe he pays much attention to what's posted on here.
 
As I stated John has done this several times, & picks out the IFB to put down more often than any others. And I have asked him not to do so, yet he keeps it up. I have posted many links to the rich history of the people named Baptist several times just for him. But he seems to disagree with it.
 
I was not trying highjack the topic, I just wish that John who attends a & is a member of a nondenominational church, would stop running down IFB Churches. with that said we need to protect our rich history, no matter what the topic may be.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Some IFB churches accepted a few of Gaither's early songs before CCM ever gained in popularity.

 

The time will soon come when the only way some IFBs will be able to separate themselves from modern music is to separate themselves from IFB and gather under a new name.

Hey guys....he said "some" IFB churches. Give him a break, huh? The way I read it, he's partial to IFB churches; not against them.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Please answer me this question for clarification.  I came from AOG.  I now belong to an IFB church.  Because of where I came from, should I not be allowed in the IFB church?  My Pastor came from a Catholic background.      

 

1st,let me say this, I've set with a Assembly of God church member many times in the coffee shop & we have had many discussion & disagreements on church doctrine yet there has never been a cross word between us.

 

We do not accept members from the Assembly of God by letter nor statement. We will accept them by their profession of faith saved by grace though faith in Jesus Christ, not of works, not of self with them being baptized. And the same thing would be true for a Catholic.

 

Oh, the Assembly of God person I mentioned is an Assembly of God preacher, we are friends & always friendly to one another.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I believe we need to be careful not to let "labeling" baptists destroy us from within. We have IB (Independent Baptist) and IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) and

OFIFB (Old Fashioned Independent Fundamental Baptist). Needless to say there will be more coming down the road. Maybe we should just call ourselves Christians and let the chips from the outside world fall where they may.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

1st,let me say this, I've set with a Assembly of God church member many times in the coffee shop & we have had many discussion & disagreements on church doctrine yet there has never been a cross word between us.

 

We do not accept members from the Assembly of God by letter nor statement. We will accept them by their profession of faith saved by grace though faith in Jesus Christ, not of works, not of self with them being baptized. And the same thing would be true for a Catholic.

 

Oh, the Assembly of God person I mentioned is an Assembly of God preacher, we are friends & always friendly to one another.

Excellent.  That's how Jesus accepts us.  Romans 10:9.  Not by our titles.  I go to an IFB church because they are the closest to Biblical principles and a place I feel I can learn and grow.  I don't call myself Baptist.  Not that I am ashamed if someone calls me Baptist but I don't want to be instantly labeled.  I am Christian. Acts 11:12  Since Christian is a broad term these days, I tell people I am a "believer"...that gets them to ask me what I believe and I can share my faith.    

Edited by LauraJones
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I've answered that question. He is an IFB, your a member of a  nondenominational church, that is why I said your looking into the IFB Churches though the prejudices of being a member of a nondenominational on a forum that's for IFB.

As Bro Matt has made clear many times, one doesn't have to attend an IFB church to be IFB. Plus, I've also pointed out to you that I'm a member of the IFB church whose IFB pastor baptized me many years ago.

 

You certainly make a lot of assumptions. Your declaring that attending a nondenominational church makes me prejudice is a very prejudicial statement in and of itself. In your declaration your wrongly prejudge myself, and in your ignorance (it's true meaning, not a slur) you prejudge a church you know nothing about. In casting such disparaging comments you are casting our Baptist pastors in an ill light, as well as my IFB pastor which fully, without reservation, endorses that nondenominational church and her Baptist pastors.

 

You have yet to even come up with an answer as to how my post put down IFBs. Yet you make a baseless charge and then proceed to attack my character, the character of a church you know nothing about, and three fine Baptist pastors.  

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 

Yes, but I don't believe he pays much attention to what's posted on here.
 
As I stated John has done this several times, & picks out the IFB to put down more often than any others. And I have asked him not to do so, yet he keeps it up. I have posted many links to the rich history of the people named Baptist several times just for him. But he seems to disagree with it.
 
I was not trying highjack the topic, I just wish that John who attends a & is a member of a nondenominational church, would stop running down IFB Churches. with that said we need to protect our rich history, no matter what the topic may be.

 

How is pointing out that some IFB churches use Gaither music "running down IFB churches"?

 

Here again you attack my character. I read every post in a thread I'm posting in.

 

This is primarily an IFB forum, I'm IFB, I'm a member of an IFB church, so naturally not only myself, but most others here discuss matters specific to IFB churches.

 

Indeed, there are many good things in our Baptist history, but unfortunately some folks have wrote many false things and also made wild guesses which they try to pass off as fact. The truth of Baptist history doesn't need any embellishment and we don't have to try and mimic the Catholics by stretching and distorting things in an attempt to say Baptists have existed since the beginning of the church.

 

So back to the point of the thread, which didn't originate with me, Gaither music is popular in many churches, including many IFB churches. Obviously many IFB folks have no problem with this. Cloud links the popularity of the Gaithers with the growing acceptance of CCM, which is also spreading among a variety of churches, including IFBs. Chappell, his church and college, among the largest and most influential in IFB use a variety of adapted CCM. The Sword of the Lord, of which "camp" Chappell is in, has decided to remain silent upon the matter. Right there is a mighty big wing of IFBs either outright accepting Gaither and CCM style music or tacitly approving of such. Those are just facts, not put downs. Again, some IFBs obviously like this while some don't. If trends continue as they are, there will likely be some form of split in the future based upon this issue.

 

The churches I attend, we still sing the hymns from the old hymnals. Many churches no longer do this. That's their choice, and if we shouldn't discuss it because it's viewed as putting down all of IFB, then we are going to have to block the David Cloud feeds and establish new rules prohibiting such topics.

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As Bro Matt has made clear many times, one doesn't have to attend an IFB church to be IFB. Plus, I've also pointed out to you that I'm a member of the IFB church whose IFB pastor baptized me many years ago.

 

You certainly make a lot of assumptions. Your declaring that attending a nondenominational church makes me prejudice is a very prejudicial statement in and of itself. In your declaration your wrongly prejudge myself, and in your ignorance (it's true meaning, not a slur) you prejudge a church you know nothing about. In casting such disparaging comments you are casting our Baptist pastors in an ill light, as well as my IFB pastor which fully, without reservation, endorses that nondenominational church and her Baptist pastors.

 

You have yet to even come up with an answer as to how my post put down IFBs. Yet you make a baseless charge and then proceed to attack my character, the character of a church you know nothing about, and three fine Baptist pastors.  

 

I do so because you put down the IFB more than any of the others.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

False. I didn't put down the IFB at all. Pointing out that some IFB churches have used Gaither music isn't putting down IFBs.

 OK, John, So your calling me a liar, that is your right.

 

Post # 5 under this topic made by John81.

"Some IFB churches accepted a few of Gaither's early songs before CCM ever gained in popularity.
 
The time will soon come when the only way some IFBs will be able to separate themselves from modern music is to separate themselves from IFB and gather under a new name."
 
>The above is copied from post number 5 made by you. You mentioned & put down IFB Churches 3 times in one topic not saying one word about any other group.
 
Your very good as putting down IFB, & not saying a word about any other group. & I've asked you to stop it more than once, & you keep it right up, them argue about it saying you did not do it.
 
As i said before I have posed links to Baptist history & you have said you disagree with it, maybe that's why you pick on IFB Churches as you have several times.
 
Again, I'm asking you to stop it, & I am not going to argue, debate it with you. This is my last post on this under this topic, until the next time you do so I will not mention it again, that is if I happen to see it.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Most people who call themselves "christians" have not been saved the bible's way.  They are as carnal and destined for hell as the unbeliever next door.

 

Most Christian churches these days are also very carnal and have gone the way of the world, the people who attend act and look little different from the unbelievers at the tailgate party or at the little league field.  

 

Most Independent, Fundamental, Soul-Winning Baptists do not look and act like the world.  You can see that there is a difference between these folks who are earnestly and consciously working to serve the Lord, live separated lives, win the lost for Christ and endeavor to be more like Paul and Jesus.

 

I remember as a new member of my local church saying to a brother that we were all evangelicals, and he very quickly corrected me and told me that we had nothing to do with them, we are Independent, Fundamental, Baptists.  I am so thankful for his correction!  Like a new recruit at bootcamp, at first I didn't feel comfortable using that label, but in time, a short time, it's a term lovingly embraced for what it means.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Most people who call themselves "christians" have not been saved the bible's way.  They are as carnal and destined for hell as the unbeliever next door.

 

Most Christian churches these days are also very carnal and have gone the way of the world, the people who attend act and look little different from the unbelievers at the tailgate party or at the little league field.  

 

Most Independent, Fundamental, Soul-Winning Baptists do not look and act like the world.  You can see that there is a difference between these folks who are earnestly and consciously working to serve the Lord, live separated lives, win the lost for Christ and endeavor to be more like Paul and Jesus.

 

I remember as a new member of my local church saying to a brother that we were all evangelicals, and he very quickly corrected me and told me that we had nothing to do with them, we are Independent, Fundamental, Baptists.  I am so thankful for his correction!  Like a new recruit at bootcamp, at first I didn't feel comfortable using that label, but in time, a short time, it's a term lovingly embraced for what it means.

 

So true.

 

Have you looked up the meaning of evangelical? I think that describes us, yet we don't care to be identified with that bunch that uses that word on their self.

 

I was reading from an old time Baptist  from the 1830-50's not many nights ago & he referred to us Baptist as evangelicals.

 

Which at one time the SBC had many conservatives, yet not many nowadays.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 

 OK, John, So your calling me a liar, that is your right.

 

Post # 5 under this topic made by John81.

"Some IFB churches accepted a few of Gaither's early songs before CCM ever gained in popularity.
 
The time will soon come when the only way some IFBs will be able to separate themselves from modern music is to separate themselves from IFB and gather under a new name."
 
>The above is copied from post number 5 made by you. You mentioned & put down IFB Churches 3 times in one topic not saying one word about any other group.
 
Your very good as putting down IFB, & not saying a word about any other group. & I've asked you to stop it more than once, & you keep it right up, them argue about it saying you did not do it.
 
As i said before I have posed links to Baptist history & you have said you disagree with it, maybe that's why you pick on IFB Churches as you have several times.
 
Again, I'm asking you to stop it, & I am not going to argue, debate it with you. This is my last post on this under this topic, until the next time you do so I will not mention it again, that is if I happen to see it.

 

So you believe speaking the truth is a put down???

 

Just how is acknowledging that some IFB churches use Gaither music a put down?

 

How is it a put down to discuss what so many others have already said with regards to modern music and IFB churches?

 

The simple fact is, there is no put down whatsoever at all. If you consider the above to be a put down then you must consider Cloud's posts regarding CCM in IFB churches to be an outright attack. You have posted about the matter yourself.

 

What Baptist history has to do with the current discussion I'm not sure. Just because I don't accept the assumptions and some things proven false in some Baptist histories doesn't mean I'm "picking on IFB", especially since IFB has only been around about a hundred years. Many times you have said history is written by men and can't be trusted.

 

The facts are that Gaither music and CCM is in some IFB churches. The fact is that this type of music is spreading to more IFB churches. The fact is that one now has to check out individual IFB churches to see just where they stand because they don't all take the same stands on music, dress, Bibles, separation and other issues as they once did.

 

The truth is the truth whether we like it or not. Speaking the truth and talking about matters pertaining to that isn't putting down anyone and isn't picking on anyone. Are we to bury our heads in the sand and pretend all is well throughout IFB when we know it isn't?

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Most people who call themselves "christians" have not been saved the bible's way.  They are as carnal and destined for hell as the unbeliever next door.

 

Most Christian churches these days are also very carnal and have gone the way of the world, the people who attend act and look little different from the unbelievers at the tailgate party or at the little league field.  

 

Most Independent, Fundamental, Soul-Winning Baptists do not look and act like the world.  You can see that there is a difference between these folks who are earnestly and consciously working to serve the Lord, live separated lives, win the lost for Christ and endeavor to be more like Paul and Jesus.

 

I remember as a new member of my local church saying to a brother that we were all evangelicals, and he very quickly corrected me and told me that we had nothing to do with them, we are Independent, Fundamental, Baptists.  I am so thankful for his correction!  Like a new recruit at bootcamp, at first I didn't feel comfortable using that label, but in time, a short time, it's a term lovingly embraced for what it means.

That's a real problem here in America. It's also one that's very difficult to try and correct. With so many folks already thinking they are Christians and headed to heaven, it's really difficult to get them to listen to the Gospel, examine themselves in the light of the Gospel and take action. All too often the worldly Christians will stop us as we try to share the Gospel with them and tell us they are already Christians. Some even claim to be born again, yet what they have been taught of being born again isn't what the Bible says.

 

True enough, we are evangelicals (and we are lumped together with them by the world and in polls and such) according to its true meaning, and those who began the IFB came from evangelicals, but because of matters of separation we can't simply call ourselves evangelicals without being confused with all the other varieties of evangelicals.

 

Today we have to be very specific as to where we stand because so many others have gone all over the place. It's good to have solid pastors and brothers in Christ to help us along. I'll be forever thankful for my first IFB friend and my first IFB pastor who took the time to disciple me.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

So you believe speaking the truth is a put down???

 

Just how is acknowledging that some IFB churches use Gaither music a put down?

 

How is it a put down to discuss what so many others have already said with regards to modern music and IFB churches?

 

The simple fact is, there is no put down whatsoever at all. If you consider the above to be a put down then you must consider Cloud's posts regarding CCM in IFB churches to be an outright attack. You have posted about the matter yourself.

 

What Baptist history has to do with the current discussion I'm not sure. Just because I don't accept the assumptions and some things proven false in some Baptist histories doesn't mean I'm "picking on IFB", especially since IFB has only been around about a hundred years. Many times you have said history is written by men and can't be trusted.

 

The facts are that Gaither music and CCM is in some IFB churches. The fact is that this type of music is spreading to more IFB churches. The fact is that one now has to check out individual IFB churches to see just where they stand because they don't all take the same stands on music, dress, Bibles, separation and other issues as they once did.

 

The truth is the truth whether we like it or not. Speaking the truth and talking about matters pertaining to that isn't putting down anyone and isn't picking on anyone. Are we to bury our heads in the sand and pretend all is well throughout IFB when we know it isn't?

 Below is a list of books by Dr. James Beller.  I read "America in Crimson Red... The Baptist History of America."  Dr. Beller also wrote another book, which is listed, below.  I am going to read it when I get the strength.  It is titled,  "The Coming Destruction of the Baptist People."  I heard it is quite good.  Beller is a reputable IFB preacher and writer on Baptist history.  I am almost certain it is b/c of the apostacy that is slowly, but surely, creeping into IFB churches.  It is going to happen soon, we must prepare for what is to come.  This isn't slamming IFB's... it is a warning of what is going to occur.  I believe that is the point that John is trying to make, Jerry.     

 

http://www.amazon.com/America-In-Crimson-Red-Baptist/dp/0966876636

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Excellent.  That's how Jesus accepts us.  Romans 10:9.  Not by our titles.  I go to an IFB church because they are the closest to Biblical principles and a place I feel I can learn and grow.  I don't call myself Baptist.  Not that I am ashamed if someone calls me Baptist but I don't want to be instantly labeled.  I am Christian. Acts 11:12  Since Christian is a broad term these days, I tell people I am a "believer"...that gets them to ask me what I believe and I can share my faith.    

I am a "Biblicist" who attends an IFB church which most closely follows Biblical doctrine.  All based on Him-not mans standards.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I am a "Biblicist" who attends an IFB church which most closely follows Biblical doctrine.  All based on Him-not mans standards.

I am a Christian first, and a proud IFB, second.  I know for a fact the the Baptists can trace their roots back to the early church as mentioned in the Book of Acts, where 3,000 souls were saved an added to the church.  This was prior to Pentacost. 

The Roman government and the Roman Catholic Church were murderers in those days.  They referred to the early Christians, as "Anabaptists" b/c they refused infant baptism, as it is not Biblical.  The Roman Emperor, Constantine, a pagan initiated the sacrament of "Infant Baptism."  Constantine was a pagan, like his dad.  His mother, Helena, was a Hebrew Christian.  My IFB church, along with other Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches hold strongly to the church doctine as stated in the Book of Acts.  Anabaptists were fed to the lions, slaughtered, had their heads chopped off, were tarred and feathered as they gave their lives to Jesus Christ.  The Baptist name has been around a very long long time.  There are various types of Baptists, as well.  In fact, before this country was founded, the Sephardic Jews (dark skinned Jews who immigrated from Spain), the American Indians... who were part Asian, and the Primitive Baptists lived on American soil before Columbus discovered America..  It is the Baptists that founded America.  Baptist, world history, is quite phenominal... as well.  Baptists are also the largest Christian denomination in America.  While Islam is the fastest growing religion, many Muslims are coming to Christ daily.  The Vatican claims that the RCC has the most members.  They do not.  They are going by the numbers of "infant baptisms" as all Roman Catholics, fall away Roman Catholics, and Roman Catholics who have been saved... have their names recorded in the Vatican records.  Back to Baptists.  I have mentioned this a few times before, but a good book to read is called, "AMERICA in Crimson Red" by Dr. James Beller.  Brother Beller is a IFB pastor and historical writer of Baptist history.  Baptists shed their blood and lives on American soil.  Also, another great writer is a man named, William J. Federer.  He wrote a Book called, "America's God and Country."  Brother Federer has a wonderful historical program on T.V. called, "Faith in History."  You don't need Satelite T.V. to watch his program.  It is a wonderful walk through American Christian history.   

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 Below is a list of books by Dr. James Beller.  I read "America in Crimson Red... The Baptist History of America."  Dr. Beller also wrote another book, which is listed, below.  I am going to read it when I get the strength.  It is titled,  "The Coming Destruction of the Baptist People."  I heard it is quite good.  Beller is a reputable IFB preacher and writer on Baptist history.  I am almost certain it is b/c of the apostacy that is slowly, but surely, creeping into IFB churches.  It is going to happen soon, we must prepare for what is to come.  This isn't slamming IFB's... it is a warning of what is going to occur.  I believe that is the point that John is trying to make, Jerry.     

 

http://www.amazon.com/America-In-Crimson-Red-Baptist/dp/0966876636

Another Baptist history book I enjoyed was "What Hath God Wrought" by Dr. William P. Grady. The subtitle of the book is, "A Biblical Interpretation of American History".

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I am a "Biblicist" who attends an IFB church which most closely follows Biblical doctrine.  All based on Him-not mans standards.

Amen! That's how we should all be. Put Christ first, base all things from Scripture.

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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
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    • Razor

      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
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    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
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    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
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