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Way Of Life - Bill Gaither's Disobedience To God's Word


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False. I didn't put down the IFB at all. Pointing out that some IFB churches have used Gaither music isn't putting down IFBs.

 OK, John, So your calling me a liar, that is your right.

 

Post # 5 under this topic made by John81.

"Some IFB churches accepted a few of Gaither's early songs before CCM ever gained in popularity.
 
The time will soon come when the only way some IFBs will be able to separate themselves from modern music is to separate themselves from IFB and gather under a new name."
 
>The above is copied from post number 5 made by you. You mentioned & put down IFB Churches 3 times in one topic not saying one word about any other group.
 
Your very good as putting down IFB, & not saying a word about any other group. & I've asked you to stop it more than once, & you keep it right up, them argue about it saying you did not do it.
 
As i said before I have posed links to Baptist history & you have said you disagree with it, maybe that's why you pick on IFB Churches as you have several times.
 
Again, I'm asking you to stop it, & I am not going to argue, debate it with you. This is my last post on this under this topic, until the next time you do so I will not mention it again, that is if I happen to see it.
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Most people who call themselves "christians" have not been saved the bible's way.  They are as carnal and destined for hell as the unbeliever next door.

 

Most Christian churches these days are also very carnal and have gone the way of the world, the people who attend act and look little different from the unbelievers at the tailgate party or at the little league field.  

 

Most Independent, Fundamental, Soul-Winning Baptists do not look and act like the world.  You can see that there is a difference between these folks who are earnestly and consciously working to serve the Lord, live separated lives, win the lost for Christ and endeavor to be more like Paul and Jesus.

 

I remember as a new member of my local church saying to a brother that we were all evangelicals, and he very quickly corrected me and told me that we had nothing to do with them, we are Independent, Fundamental, Baptists.  I am so thankful for his correction!  Like a new recruit at bootcamp, at first I didn't feel comfortable using that label, but in time, a short time, it's a term lovingly embraced for what it means.

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Most people who call themselves "christians" have not been saved the bible's way.  They are as carnal and destined for hell as the unbeliever next door.

 

Most Christian churches these days are also very carnal and have gone the way of the world, the people who attend act and look little different from the unbelievers at the tailgate party or at the little league field.  

 

Most Independent, Fundamental, Soul-Winning Baptists do not look and act like the world.  You can see that there is a difference between these folks who are earnestly and consciously working to serve the Lord, live separated lives, win the lost for Christ and endeavor to be more like Paul and Jesus.

 

I remember as a new member of my local church saying to a brother that we were all evangelicals, and he very quickly corrected me and told me that we had nothing to do with them, we are Independent, Fundamental, Baptists.  I am so thankful for his correction!  Like a new recruit at bootcamp, at first I didn't feel comfortable using that label, but in time, a short time, it's a term lovingly embraced for what it means.

 

So true.

 

Have you looked up the meaning of evangelical? I think that describes us, yet we don't care to be identified with that bunch that uses that word on their self.

 

I was reading from an old time Baptist  from the 1830-50's not many nights ago & he referred to us Baptist as evangelicals.

 

Which at one time the SBC had many conservatives, yet not many nowadays.

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 OK, John, So your calling me a liar, that is your right.

 

Post # 5 under this topic made by John81.

"Some IFB churches accepted a few of Gaither's early songs before CCM ever gained in popularity.
 
The time will soon come when the only way some IFBs will be able to separate themselves from modern music is to separate themselves from IFB and gather under a new name."
 
>The above is copied from post number 5 made by you. You mentioned & put down IFB Churches 3 times in one topic not saying one word about any other group.
 
Your very good as putting down IFB, & not saying a word about any other group. & I've asked you to stop it more than once, & you keep it right up, them argue about it saying you did not do it.
 
As i said before I have posed links to Baptist history & you have said you disagree with it, maybe that's why you pick on IFB Churches as you have several times.
 
Again, I'm asking you to stop it, & I am not going to argue, debate it with you. This is my last post on this under this topic, until the next time you do so I will not mention it again, that is if I happen to see it.

 

So you believe speaking the truth is a put down???

 

Just how is acknowledging that some IFB churches use Gaither music a put down?

 

How is it a put down to discuss what so many others have already said with regards to modern music and IFB churches?

 

The simple fact is, there is no put down whatsoever at all. If you consider the above to be a put down then you must consider Cloud's posts regarding CCM in IFB churches to be an outright attack. You have posted about the matter yourself.

 

What Baptist history has to do with the current discussion I'm not sure. Just because I don't accept the assumptions and some things proven false in some Baptist histories doesn't mean I'm "picking on IFB", especially since IFB has only been around about a hundred years. Many times you have said history is written by men and can't be trusted.

 

The facts are that Gaither music and CCM is in some IFB churches. The fact is that this type of music is spreading to more IFB churches. The fact is that one now has to check out individual IFB churches to see just where they stand because they don't all take the same stands on music, dress, Bibles, separation and other issues as they once did.

 

The truth is the truth whether we like it or not. Speaking the truth and talking about matters pertaining to that isn't putting down anyone and isn't picking on anyone. Are we to bury our heads in the sand and pretend all is well throughout IFB when we know it isn't?

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Most people who call themselves "christians" have not been saved the bible's way.  They are as carnal and destined for hell as the unbeliever next door.

 

Most Christian churches these days are also very carnal and have gone the way of the world, the people who attend act and look little different from the unbelievers at the tailgate party or at the little league field.  

 

Most Independent, Fundamental, Soul-Winning Baptists do not look and act like the world.  You can see that there is a difference between these folks who are earnestly and consciously working to serve the Lord, live separated lives, win the lost for Christ and endeavor to be more like Paul and Jesus.

 

I remember as a new member of my local church saying to a brother that we were all evangelicals, and he very quickly corrected me and told me that we had nothing to do with them, we are Independent, Fundamental, Baptists.  I am so thankful for his correction!  Like a new recruit at bootcamp, at first I didn't feel comfortable using that label, but in time, a short time, it's a term lovingly embraced for what it means.

That's a real problem here in America. It's also one that's very difficult to try and correct. With so many folks already thinking they are Christians and headed to heaven, it's really difficult to get them to listen to the Gospel, examine themselves in the light of the Gospel and take action. All too often the worldly Christians will stop us as we try to share the Gospel with them and tell us they are already Christians. Some even claim to be born again, yet what they have been taught of being born again isn't what the Bible says.

 

True enough, we are evangelicals (and we are lumped together with them by the world and in polls and such) according to its true meaning, and those who began the IFB came from evangelicals, but because of matters of separation we can't simply call ourselves evangelicals without being confused with all the other varieties of evangelicals.

 

Today we have to be very specific as to where we stand because so many others have gone all over the place. It's good to have solid pastors and brothers in Christ to help us along. I'll be forever thankful for my first IFB friend and my first IFB pastor who took the time to disciple me.

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So you believe speaking the truth is a put down???

 

Just how is acknowledging that some IFB churches use Gaither music a put down?

 

How is it a put down to discuss what so many others have already said with regards to modern music and IFB churches?

 

The simple fact is, there is no put down whatsoever at all. If you consider the above to be a put down then you must consider Cloud's posts regarding CCM in IFB churches to be an outright attack. You have posted about the matter yourself.

 

What Baptist history has to do with the current discussion I'm not sure. Just because I don't accept the assumptions and some things proven false in some Baptist histories doesn't mean I'm "picking on IFB", especially since IFB has only been around about a hundred years. Many times you have said history is written by men and can't be trusted.

 

The facts are that Gaither music and CCM is in some IFB churches. The fact is that this type of music is spreading to more IFB churches. The fact is that one now has to check out individual IFB churches to see just where they stand because they don't all take the same stands on music, dress, Bibles, separation and other issues as they once did.

 

The truth is the truth whether we like it or not. Speaking the truth and talking about matters pertaining to that isn't putting down anyone and isn't picking on anyone. Are we to bury our heads in the sand and pretend all is well throughout IFB when we know it isn't?

 Below is a list of books by Dr. James Beller.  I read "America in Crimson Red... The Baptist History of America."  Dr. Beller also wrote another book, which is listed, below.  I am going to read it when I get the strength.  It is titled,  "The Coming Destruction of the Baptist People."  I heard it is quite good.  Beller is a reputable IFB preacher and writer on Baptist history.  I am almost certain it is b/c of the apostacy that is slowly, but surely, creeping into IFB churches.  It is going to happen soon, we must prepare for what is to come.  This isn't slamming IFB's... it is a warning of what is going to occur.  I believe that is the point that John is trying to make, Jerry.     

 

http://www.amazon.com/America-In-Crimson-Red-Baptist/dp/0966876636

Edited by candlelight
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Excellent.  That's how Jesus accepts us.  Romans 10:9.  Not by our titles.  I go to an IFB church because they are the closest to Biblical principles and a place I feel I can learn and grow.  I don't call myself Baptist.  Not that I am ashamed if someone calls me Baptist but I don't want to be instantly labeled.  I am Christian. Acts 11:12  Since Christian is a broad term these days, I tell people I am a "believer"...that gets them to ask me what I believe and I can share my faith.    

I am a "Biblicist" who attends an IFB church which most closely follows Biblical doctrine.  All based on Him-not mans standards.

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I am a "Biblicist" who attends an IFB church which most closely follows Biblical doctrine.  All based on Him-not mans standards.

I am a Christian first, and a proud IFB, second.  I know for a fact the the Baptists can trace their roots back to the early church as mentioned in the Book of Acts, where 3,000 souls were saved an added to the church.  This was prior to Pentacost. 

The Roman government and the Roman Catholic Church were murderers in those days.  They referred to the early Christians, as "Anabaptists" b/c they refused infant baptism, as it is not Biblical.  The Roman Emperor, Constantine, a pagan initiated the sacrament of "Infant Baptism."  Constantine was a pagan, like his dad.  His mother, Helena, was a Hebrew Christian.  My IFB church, along with other Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches hold strongly to the church doctine as stated in the Book of Acts.  Anabaptists were fed to the lions, slaughtered, had their heads chopped off, were tarred and feathered as they gave their lives to Jesus Christ.  The Baptist name has been around a very long long time.  There are various types of Baptists, as well.  In fact, before this country was founded, the Sephardic Jews (dark skinned Jews who immigrated from Spain), the American Indians... who were part Asian, and the Primitive Baptists lived on American soil before Columbus discovered America..  It is the Baptists that founded America.  Baptist, world history, is quite phenominal... as well.  Baptists are also the largest Christian denomination in America.  While Islam is the fastest growing religion, many Muslims are coming to Christ daily.  The Vatican claims that the RCC has the most members.  They do not.  They are going by the numbers of "infant baptisms" as all Roman Catholics, fall away Roman Catholics, and Roman Catholics who have been saved... have their names recorded in the Vatican records.  Back to Baptists.  I have mentioned this a few times before, but a good book to read is called, "AMERICA in Crimson Red" by Dr. James Beller.  Brother Beller is a IFB pastor and historical writer of Baptist history.  Baptists shed their blood and lives on American soil.  Also, another great writer is a man named, William J. Federer.  He wrote a Book called, "America's God and Country."  Brother Federer has a wonderful historical program on T.V. called, "Faith in History."  You don't need Satelite T.V. to watch his program.  It is a wonderful walk through American Christian history.   

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 Below is a list of books by Dr. James Beller.  I read "America in Crimson Red... The Baptist History of America."  Dr. Beller also wrote another book, which is listed, below.  I am going to read it when I get the strength.  It is titled,  "The Coming Destruction of the Baptist People."  I heard it is quite good.  Beller is a reputable IFB preacher and writer on Baptist history.  I am almost certain it is b/c of the apostacy that is slowly, but surely, creeping into IFB churches.  It is going to happen soon, we must prepare for what is to come.  This isn't slamming IFB's... it is a warning of what is going to occur.  I believe that is the point that John is trying to make, Jerry.     

 

http://www.amazon.com/America-In-Crimson-Red-Baptist/dp/0966876636

Another Baptist history book I enjoyed was "What Hath God Wrought" by Dr. William P. Grady. The subtitle of the book is, "A Biblical Interpretation of American History".

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Another Baptist history book I enjoyed was "What Hath God Wrought" by Dr. William P. Grady. The subtitle of the book is, "A Biblical Interpretation of American History".

Oh, I have heard of that book John.  I believe my in-laws have it.  I have to get my hands on it and read it soon.  Thanks for the suggestion, brother.

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Oh, I have heard of that book John.  I believe my in-laws have it.  I have to get my hands on it and read it soon.  Thanks for the suggestion, brother.

 

I just noticed the other book you suggested.  I haven't heard of that one.  Sound like a really great historical account of American Christianity.

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I am a Christian first, and a proud IFB, second.  I know for a fact the the Baptists can trace their roots back to the early church as mentioned in the Book of Acts, where 3,000 souls were saved an added to the church.  This was prior to Pentacost. 

The Roman government and the Roman Catholic Church were murderers in those days.  They referred to the early Christians, as "Anabaptists" b/c they refused infant baptism, as it is not Biblical.  The Roman Emperor, Constantine, a pagan initiated the sacrament of "Infant Baptism."  Constantine was a pagan, like his dad.  His mother, Helena, was a Hebrew Christian.  My IFB church, along with other Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches hold strongly to the church doctine as stated in the Book of Acts.  Anabaptists were fed to the lions, slaughtered, had their heads chopped off, were tarred and feathered as they gave their lives to Jesus Christ.  The Baptist name has been around a very long long time.  There are various types of Baptists, as well.  In fact, before this country was founded, the Sephardic Jews (dark skinned Jews who immigrated from Spain), the American Indians... who were part Asian, and the Primitive Baptists lived on American soil before Columbus discovered America..  It is the Baptists that founded America.  Baptist, world history, is quite phenominal... as well.  Baptists are also the largest Christian denomination in America.  While Islam is the fastest growing religion, many Muslims are coming to Christ daily.  The Vatican claims that the RCC has the most members.  They do not.  They are going by the numbers of "infant baptisms" as all Roman Catholics, fall away Roman Catholics, and Roman Catholics who have been saved... have their names recorded in the Vatican records.  Back to Baptists.  I have mentioned this a few times before, but a good book to read is called, "AMERICA in Crimson Red" by Dr. James Beller.  Brother Beller is a IFB pastor and historical writer of Baptist history.  Baptists shed their blood and lives on American soil.  Also, another great writer is a man named, William J. Federer.  He wrote a Book called, "America's God and Country."  Brother Federer has a wonderful historical program on T.V. called, "Faith in History."  You don't need Satelite T.V. to watch his program.  It is a wonderful walk through American Christian history.   

This is all so incredible! Never heard that before.  Baptists founded America??? I have been attending an IFB church now for 6 years and I've heard some things I've never heard before.  Baptists are not protestant, music is not worship, if you don't tithe, you're under a curse, women can 't even pray in a service, baptists go all the way back to John the Baptist, and the autonomy of the local church.  It's all pretty hard to believe.  And, I think whether I believe that or not, it won't have any effect on eternity.

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Baptists definitely were not Protestant.  Protestants were those who came out of the Catholic church, protesting against it.

Baptists were never part of the Catholic Church.

Depending on the style of music, I would have to say it is worship but either worshiping God or a false god or satan himself.

The curse for not tithing was upon Israel.  There is no Scripture that says one will be cursed today for not tithing.  We cannot be cursed today for not keeping the Law (which tithing was a part of, and which was abolished by Jesus Christ)

Women can pray in a service.  Paul told the saints at Corinth that when a woman prayed or prophesied she must have her head covered though.

Baptist's cannot trace their roots back to John the Baptist.  They may like to think the do, but they can't.trace back to John the Baptist.  John was a Levite.  The Levitical genealogy was destroyed in 70 A.D..  No one can trace back to John for this reason.

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I don't believe it is correct to say that Baptist "founded" America - that is a stretch.  I believe it is more accurate to say that the Baptists had an extremely strong influence during the formative days of America, and played an important role during the Revolutionary Era.

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