Members Bakershalfdozen Posted October 16, 2008 Members Share Posted October 16, 2008 What are they? Are they for today? Under what circumstances do we see them used in the Bible? Were there any "rules" that had to be followed when using tongues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted October 16, 2008 Members Share Posted October 16, 2008 In Acts, when the disciples received the Holy Ghost and Peter spoke in other tongues it's obvious by Scripture his speech was heard as human languages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted October 16, 2008 Members Share Posted October 16, 2008 I believe they are still possible today because nothing in Scripture would indicate that they are not. It's true that many times, tongues was used for those in other languages to understand the gospel. That doesn't always appear to be the case, however. The exception would be praying in the Spirit but without understanding. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." Paul made it clear that no man understood this tongue but he was speaking unto God in his Spirit, which he himself couldn't understand. It appears by the way Paul was talking that the church at Corinth was something like the Charismatic churches today. Tongues were not wrong, but everyone coming into the church had a tongue or a prophecy or doctrine(teaching) and the church as a group was not being edified. He finished the chapter by saying not to forbid speaking in tongues but encouraged praying with the understanding within the church because it is more edifying to others, while speaking in tongues edifies yourself and your own Spirit alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Salyan Posted October 16, 2008 Moderators Share Posted October 16, 2008 Rules for speaking in tongues: Not more than three in a service Each utterance had to be translated Men only Not with confusion, but decently and in order 1 Cor. 14:27: If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 1 Cor. 14:34: Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 1 Cor. 14:33: For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Cor. 14:40: Let all things be done decently and in order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted October 16, 2008 Members Share Posted October 16, 2008 Also remember that this is in a church situation and the interpretation applies to speaking, but not praying in tongues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Salyan Posted October 16, 2008 Moderators Share Posted October 16, 2008 I believe they are still possible today because nothing in Scripture would indicate that they are not. It's true that many times' date=' tongues was used for those in other languages to understand the gospel. That doesn't always appear to be the case, however. The exception would be praying in the Spirit but without understanding. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." Paul made it clear that no man understood this tongue but he was speaking unto God in his Spirit, which he himself couldn't understand. [/quote'] I agree with this first thought -- that tongues are still possible today. The only Scriptural argument I've heard against it is 1 Corinthians 13, and I have not yet been convinced that 'that which is perfect' is referring to the Bible. I also believe, however, that any true tongue is a true language. A tongue would be, by its very nature, unknown to its speaker. That does not it make it unknown to all men. 1 Cor. 14:33 tells us that if a man speak [in tongues], one should interpret. This implies that any utterance of tongues could be interpreted; i.e., it was a real language. The whole idea of 'private prayer tongues' (I don't know whether you're referring to this idea, but your idea sortof sounds like the same thing. If you're not -- sorry for misunderstanding you!) seems to have come out of the need for early Pentecostals to explain why their tongues were not 'real' languages. I don't believe it to have any Biblical backing. Tongues were given as a sign to the unbelieving Jews. I can't imagine them being particularly impressed with a whole lot of adults spouting gobbledy-gook! My :2cents. BTW, I did a word search on 'tongues' to find some references. There are not a lot of references to this topic! It strikes me that there's an awful lot of emphasis in the churches today on something that is mentioned so little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted October 16, 2008 Members Share Posted October 16, 2008 Paul does seem to indicate that it's a tongue totally unknown, though. He says that if he prays in an "unknown" tongue, a tongue that is not known to man, his Spirit is praying but his understanding is unfruitful. His spirit can pray in a tongue not known to man. I've never spoken or prayed in any kind of tongue but Korean and American(that's a language) but I have some friends who claim to have. I talked to my one friend about it and it seemed to be honest enough, though I can't confirm where it came from(mind or Spirit). I will say that I've never seen anyone pray like Koreans pray, maybe that makes a difference. :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators HappyChristian Posted October 16, 2008 Administrators Share Posted October 16, 2008 The word "tongue" and the word "tongues" refers to language - like Korean, Kevin. Paul referred to himself as speaking in tongues more than those who received his letter...he was referring to the languages he spoke. I don't believe that we can pray in another tongue (unknown to man). The Bible tells us that the Holy Spirit interprets our prayers because we don't know how to pray for that which we ought. But not because we are praying in an unkown tongue. In 1 Cor. 13, when Paul says, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal" he isn't saying that he does speak with the tongues of angels. He's saying that even if he could do all of that, without love it's worthless. And many pentecostals claim that the gibberish they speak in services and in prayer is the tongue of angels (I know this is true...I have family deeply involved in this). It isn't. We have no idea what their tongue is, and I don't believe God would give it to us - because it wouldn't glorify Him, it would glorify the angels and the person who "spoke" it. That said, I do believe that God could use tongues today. He can do anything He wants to. But I don't believe that He does...at least not on the scale we are led to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PreacherBen Posted October 16, 2008 Members Share Posted October 16, 2008 The only bonified case I know of is that of Evangelist Keith Daniels from S. Africa. As a native of S. Africa he speaks his native tongue, English, the Dutch tongue of S. Africa called Afrikaans, and some Zulu. He was speaking in a predominently English speaking prison, in English, presenting the Gospel. Afterwards a man came up to him speaking Afrikaans explaining to Keith that he trusted Christ as his personal Saviour as a result of Keith's sermon. Keith soon realized this man didn't speak any English, but said he heard the entire sermon in Afrikaans. He gave glory to God and went on with his ministry not making a big deal out of it or claiming everyone should seek the same experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bakershalfdozen Posted October 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 16, 2008 Amen! I think that is a great example of Acts 2 seen in our time today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators HappyChristian Posted October 16, 2008 Administrators Share Posted October 16, 2008 The only bonified case I know of is that of Evangelist Keith Daniels from S. Africa. As a native of S. Africa he speaks his native tongue' date=' English, the Dutch tongue of S. Africa called Afrikaans, and some Zulu. He was speaking in a predominently English speaking prison, in English, presenting the Gospel. Afterwards a man came up to him speaking Afrikaans explaining to Keith that he trusted Christ as his personal Saviour as a result of Keith's sermon. Keith soon realized this man didn't speak any English, but said he heard the entire sermon in Afrikaans. He gave glory to God and went on with his ministry not making a big deal out of it or claiming everyone should seek the same experience.[/quote'] Yes - I've heard of this kind of thing happening occasionally and believe that it can. I don't think it's the general rule, but the same Holy Spirit who worked on the day of Pentecost is working today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted October 17, 2008 Members Share Posted October 17, 2008 The word "tongue" and the word "tongues" refers to language - like Korean, Kevin. Paul referred to himself as speaking in tongues more than those who received his letter...he was referring to the languages he spoke. I don't believe that we can pray in another tongue (unknown to man). The Bible tells us that the Holy Spirit interprets our prayers because we don't know how to pray for that which we ought. But not because we are praying in an unkown tongue. In 1 Cor. 13, when Paul says, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal" he isn't saying that he does speak with the tongues of angels. He's saying that even if he could do all of that, without love it's worthless. And many pentecostals claim that the gibberish they speak in services and in prayer is the tongue of angels (I know this is true...I have family deeply involved in this). It isn't. We have no idea what their tongue is, and I don't believe God would give it to us - because it wouldn't glorify Him, it would glorify the angels and the person who "spoke" it. That said, I do believe that God could use tongues today. He can do anything He wants to. But I don't believe that He does...at least not on the scale we are led to believe. I agree that it doesn't take place on the scale we see it today. I'm by no means charismatic. But how do you explain Paul saying that he prayed in an "unknown" tongue, a tongue that was unknown, and that his understanding was unfruitful. When his Spirit prayed, Paul didn't understand what he was saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PreacherBen Posted October 17, 2008 Members Share Posted October 17, 2008 I think the thing we need to differentiate is that there is actually Biblical tongues (like I shared above,) and there is the modern day phenomena called tongues. One is the work of God converting the lost with a miraculous gift, the other is an (often) ecstatic experience drummed up by those who are seeking (sometime genuinely) something extra that others say they should have, or to fulfill an emptiness we can all experience when we see the shallowness and decay of our modern Christian experience. I don't want to dis all people of a more "pentecostal" faith, because some are authentically sincere and loving Christians. I'm pretty convinced what "I" think tongues are, but then again, I am not going to put God in a box, amen? Bro. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators HappyChristian Posted October 17, 2008 Administrators Share Posted October 17, 2008 I think the thing we need to differentiate is that there is actually Biblical tongues (like I shared above,) and there is the modern day phenomena called tongues. One is the work of God converting the lost with a miraculous gift, the other is an (often) ecstatic experience drummed up by those who are seeking (sometime genuinely) something extra that others say they should have, or to fulfill an emptiness we can all experience when we see the shallowness and decay of our modern Christian experience. I don't want to dis all people of a more "pentecostal" faith, because some are authentically sincere and loving Christians. I'm pretty convinced what "I" think tongues are, but then again, I am not going to put God in a box, amen? Bro. Ben and Kevin - I don't know how to explain it! :Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members David Dow Posted October 17, 2008 Members Share Posted October 17, 2008 Paul does seem to indicate that it's a tongue totally unknown, though. He says that if he prays in an "unknown" tongue, a tongue that is not known to man, his Spirit is praying but his understanding is unfruitful. His spirit can pray in a tongue not known to man. I've never spoken or prayed in any kind of tongue but Korean and American(that's a language) but I have some friends who claim to have. I talked to my one friend about it and it seemed to be honest enough, though I can't confirm where it came from(mind or Spirit). I will say that I've never seen anyone pray like Koreans pray, maybe that makes a difference. :dunno: Unknown does not mean unknown to man. The speakers at Pentecost spoke in unknown tongues. That is they were unknown to the speakers but obviously understood by the different nationals that stood by. So when Paul speaks of praying in an unknown tongue He is talking about a language that the speaker or part of his audience does not understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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