Churches That Are Against Having Drums In The Music...

[Covenanter]

To answer Laura - & Psalm 150 - many churches - particularly Reformed - operate the "Regulative Principle" which requires the church's worship & practice to conform to the NT principles. ONLY what is restarted in the NT from the OT should be used in worship.

 

The instruments of Psalm 150 are not considered in e.g. Eph. 5 or Col. 3, & so should NOT be used in Christian worship.

 

Eph. 5:¹⁸ And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

¹⁹ Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

 

Col. 3:¹⁶ Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

 

Until about 150 years ago, that principle applied. ALL independent churches, & Presbyterian, did not use musical instruments at all. Instruments were allowed for secular pleasure - e.g. country dancing - but not worship. When Moody & Sankey came to England, one of the objections raised by non-conformists (independents & Presb) was the use of instruments as an attractive feature - singing the Gospel, rather than preaching it. Sinners should not be "entertained" with sweet music. (But shhhhh - now we enjoy singing those Sankey hymns - they really had a tune, not like CCM.)

 

I agree in principle, but not with that strict application. I am happy to use instruments to lead the singing, but only as subservient.

[Left the Bldg]

I just googled "rock concert video". for an example of 'drum beats' and the first one which came up for me was a concert by "Whitesnake". It was very VILE. I heard electric guitar distortions and drums....lots of drums. I agree that there's nothing wrong with 'drums' per se, but I fail to see how electric guitar distortions have enough melody to inspire "making melody in your hearts" unto the Lord. That;s why I fail to see how any kind of rock music or anything which even resembles such, including similar drum beats, can praise God, and edify God's people....And seeing that the very same thing is used to honor the Devil, why would we want to conform to this world's 'worship'?. So the question is, can the same style of music which is used to glorify power, lust, rebellion and anarchy, lewdness and filth be used to praise God? Really..

 

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2

I think the original question or topic was if drums should be used in churches.  Any instrument can be used to glorify God. Whitesnake uses distorted melodies because they're not glorifying God.  It's not the instrument in question but who is the person glorifying? 

[heartstrings]

I know what the original question was and my direct answer would be, "in most cases "no", because of the way they're typically used.

Any drums beats I've heard used in churches have been too much like rock and roll; and certainly not "military" type beats. Just this Sunday our church played some canned music from "Casting Crowns" for someone to sing to.  It's rock music ma'am.

 

Did i say "in most cases"? 

[Left the Bldg]

I know what the original question was and my direct answer would be, "in most cases "no", because of the way they're typically used.

Any drums beats I've heard used in churches have been too much like rock and roll; and certainly not "military" type beats. Just this Sunday our church played some canned music from "Casting Crowns" for someone to sing to.  It's rock music ma'am.

 

Did i say "in most cases"? 

What about in other cases when they are not typically used in the way you describe?  Then it would be okay?  I find no Biblical references to abstain from any instrument.  The "drum" is the topic.  Not rock music sir.

[HappyChristian]

I know what the original question was and my direct answer would be, "in most cases "no", because of the way they're typically used.

Any drums beats I've heard used in churches have been too much like rock and roll; and certainly not "military" type beats. Just this Sunday our church played some canned music from "Casting Crowns" for someone to sing to.  It's rock music ma'am.

 

Did i say "in most cases"? 

You ought to visit our church, heart.  You'd hear it done right there!  

 

~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Let's not let this thread get hostile, folks...While "drum" may be the topic, usage is appropriate to discuss - ergo, talking about whether or not a church that uses it in a rock style would fit into the topic quite well.

[heartstrings]

I'd like to hear that; do you have a clip or video?

[HappyChristian]

I'd like to hear that; do you have a clip or video?

No - I looked for an example a while ago but couldn't find any.  

[Covenanter]

I've been away for a week - looking after 2 of our grandchildren during half term. Hope you've all missed me ....

 

Went to my son's church  - you'd all love it. Our 7 y-o Naomi was in the choir & had been practising, against youtube, some really unpleasant, irregular & dreary male-voiced songs with reasonable words. Sunday it took about half hour to process 2 songs - repeats etc. I can say that with keyboard, drum kit, & several guitars & several girls & men leading it sounded better than youtube. But that's not saying much.

 

All was quiet for breaking of bread - brief explanation & 3 scattered verses - but no formal reading. Then little children took lumps of bread round, while older children took the wine - in tumblers. I used a prayer time to introduce wife & myself & our church. Our Pakistani Pastor & his wife were visiting his family in Peshawar, Pakistan, including the church that was bombed a month ago. His Punjabi (converted Sikh) wife comes from Nairobi, & her family shop in the shopping centre that was taken over by Somali gunmen.

 

I reminded that church family that our brothers & sisters are sffering greatly around the world, & led in prayer for them.

 

"Worship" resumed & several people tried to read & speak - against the band which kept playing so the readings & messages could not be heard. Actually the drummer was restrained - it was the other instruments that were out of order - no, not the instruments - those playing them.

 

We have a potential problem. should we sell up  & move nearer to one of our sons. (Such a move would benefit us all financially.) Would we attend that church? Or another where I wrote afterwards rebuking the conduct of the service, led by a girl with a very short skirt? Or an Anglican church? At the moment we are staying put, & those churches are good reasons for not moving. 

[HappyChristian]

Yes, we missed you!  Glad you're back - and sorry for your experience.  That is getting to be the norm, sadly, in so many churches today.  

 

 

 

it was the other instruments that were out of order - no, not the instruments - those playing them.

   Truth!

 

Staying put is likely the wisest thing to do right now.

[Left the Bldg]

You ought to visit our church, heart.  You'd hear it done right there!  

 

~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Let's not let this thread get hostile, folks...While "drum" may be the topic, usage is appropriate to discuss - ergo, talking about whether or not a church that uses it in a rock style would fit into the topic quite well.

I don't think I'm being hostile but I am trying to stick with the topic "drums" and still no one has any Biblical references that we shouldn't use them in worship.  That is the dangers of forums where there can be misinterpretation or misunderstandings in someone's style of writing.    

[Covenanter]

I don't think I'm being hostile but I am trying to stick with the topic "drums" and still no one has any Biblical references that we shouldn't use them in worship.  That is the dangers of forums where there can be misinterpretation or misunderstandings in someone's style of writing.    

 

I mentioned early on that Indian tabla drums are widely used in worship & are not obtrusive - I included a link & a photo. I'll edit this with a page ref.

[Left the Bldg]

To answer Laura - & Psalm 150 - many churches - particularly Reformed - operate the "Regulative Principle" which requires the church's worship & practice to conform to the NT principles. ONLY what is restarted in the NT from the OT should be used in worship.

 

The instruments of Psalm 150 are not considered in e.g. Eph. 5 or Col. 3, & so should NOT be used in Christian worship.

 

Eph. 5:¹⁸ And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

¹⁹ Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

 

Col. 3:¹⁶ Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

 

Until about 150 years ago, that principle applied. ALL independent churches, & Presbyterian, did not use musical instruments at all. Instruments were allowed for secular pleasure - e.g. country dancing - but not worship. When Moody & Sankey came to England, one of the objections raised by non-conformists (independents & Presb) was the use of instruments as an attractive feature - singing the Gospel, rather than preaching it. Sinners should not be "entertained" with sweet music. (But shhhhh - now we enjoy singing those Sankey hymns - they really had a tune, not like CCM.)

 

I agree in principle, but not with that strict application. I am happy to use instruments to lead the singing, but only as subservient.

Even the drums?

[HappyChristian]

I don't think I'm being hostile but I am trying to stick with the topic "drums" and still no one has any Biblical references that we shouldn't use them in worship.  That is the dangers of forums where there can be misinterpretation or misunderstandings in someone's style of writing.    

It was simply a warning not to let it get hostile - no accusation of anyone being hostile.     

 

Technically, the topic is drums in church - and that would, as I said earlier, leave room to discuss the type of music that can/is played in many churches as to reasons why they aren't allowed/appreciated/liked.  There is plenty of scripture that would not allow churches to play certain styles - no matter the instrument - but many churches ignore the very basic principle of not adopting the fashions of the world.  That causes a problem and many people prefer to stay completely away from certain things - like drums in church.  Our church is not one of those, but we are quite strict on the style of music that actually is played.  And, honestly, if  a church prefers not to use drums, that's not unbiblical.

[DaveW]

Ex 32
 17  And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.

 18  And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear.

Now a few points.
This passage does not mention drums specifically.
This is more to do with style than instrument per se.

Moses had just got the tablets of the Law and was returning to people, who in the meantime had decided to worship a golden calf they had made.

Joshua thought there was a battle going on, Moses said it was people singing.
Battle in those days was clashing of sword on shield, banging of club on armour, shouts of anger, screams of pain.

Joshua mistook their singing for this kind of battle noise.

I think from that we can draw the conclusion that this style of "singing" is not pleasing to God.

Drums, when used properly would not be dishonouring, but the vast majority of drum useage today would not be.

For me, there are certain instruments that are far too easy to use wrongly, so they will not be used at the church I Pastor.
This is my preference and my right as pastor.
I would rather err on the right side than play on the edge of the wrong side.

When all is said and done, the instrument is an inanimate object. It is the way it is used that matters - but some instruments are more easily used in a worldly fashion.

[heartstrings]

Ex 32
 17  And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.

 18  And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear.

Now a few points.
This passage does not mention drums specifically.
This is more to do with style than instrument per se.

Moses had just got the tablets of the Law and was returning to people, who in the meantime had decided to worship a golden calf they had made.

Joshua thought there was a battle going on, Moses said it was people singing.
Battle in those days was clashing of sword on shield, banging of club on armour, shouts of anger, screams of pain.

Joshua mistook their singing for this kind of battle noise.

I think from that we can draw the conclusion that this style of "singing" is not pleasing to God.

Drums, when used properly would not be dishonouring, but the vast majority of drum useage today would not be.

For me, there are certain instruments that are far too easy to use wrongly, so they will not be used at the church I Pastor.
This is my preference and my right as pastor.
I would rather err on the right side than play on the edge of the wrong side.

When all is said and done, the instrument is an inanimate object. It is the way it is used that matters - but some instruments are more easily used in a worldly fashion.

Amen Amen!