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This thread was started on my birthday and here we are two months later and we're still posting in it on my wife's birthday!

 

They can't properly offer sacrifices without the temple, and as the OT shows and the NT tells us, no one can keep the law which is why we need a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord, the One and Only Way to salvation and right standing with God.

 

It is not the temple that stops them offering sacrifices, it is the fact that there are no priests able to offer the sacrifices.  Th sacrIFBices did not cease for lack of a temple but because there were no priests able to prove their genealogy, due to the house of records being destroyed.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

AND WE POSTED IT ON MY BIRTHDAY, YESTERDAY! WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?  OOPS, GOT MY CAPS ON. SORRY, DON'T MEAN TO RAISE MY VOICE.

Just because we're all getting older here doesn't mean you have to yell!

 

Or maybe it does :allears:

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It is not the temple that stops them offering sacrifices, it is the fact that there are no priests able to offer the sacrifices.  Th sacrIFBices did not cease for lack of a temple but because there were no priests able to prove their genealogy, due to the house of records being destroyed.

That's not what they believe. They believe the sacrifices must be done within the temple system and they do believe they know who the priests are. Whether they are right or not, they have family listings of those who will be the priests when they get the temple rebuilt, according to their beliefs such will eventually happen.

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That's not what they believe. They believe the sacrifices must be done within the temple system and they do believe they know who the priests are. Whether they are right or not, they have family listings of those who will be the priests when they get the temple rebuilt, according to their beliefs such will eventually happen.

 

That's not what they believe. They believe the sacrifices must be done within the temple system and they do believe they know who the priests are. Whether they are right or not, they have family listings of those who will be the priests when they get the temple rebuilt, according to their beliefs such will eventually happen.

In 2007, Israel held the International Conference of Descendants showing that the Kohanim tribe are the sons of Aaron and from the tribe of Levi. There is even a website dedicated to this, and the Center for Kohanim is on the west side of Old City Jerusalem in the Jewish Quarter.

 

The Sanhedrin came back to life in 2006, and among them and other Temple Mount volunteers spent almost $30 million to restore the Temple and all the relics and priest garb. It's not a question of IF this will ever happen, but when.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Invicta, the Jews I spoken with about this would disagree with you.
I have been told by every Jew I have spoken about this (not a great number but they all agree) that the lack of Temple is the primary hinderance.

I personally don't know, but this is what has been told to me by people who should know.
They of course could all be wrong......

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Invicta, the Jews I spoken with about this would disagree with you.
I have been told by every Jew I have spoken about this (not a great number but they all agree) that the lack of Temple is the primary hinderance.

I personally don't know, but this is what has been told to me by people who should know.
They of course could all be wrong......

I go to Jerusalem about twice a month, it's a little over an hour from where I live in Tel Aviv. The main 2 obstacles are the Muslim opposition to building the Temple at the right location, and the birth of a red heifer for the purifying of the temple (although whether a red heifer is needed is one of the contentions). It is guessed that the building will take @ 6 months, but I think they can do it with less with all the volunteers that are ready. 

I particularly loathe their zeal for this project because I know who's going to fill that seat in the temple, but I know it's going to happen. I just hope to reach as many as I can in the mean time.

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How can the sacrifices be restored without the ark of the covenant? I would think that would need to be restored.

 

How can the sacrifices be restored without the ark of the covenant? I would think that would need to be restored.

Its actually just the sacrifice of atonement that would be affected by that. But then, that says a lot, doesn't it? No symbolic atonement of the nation-as they, as a nation, have rejected the atonement offered by Jesus Christ, so they can't even make an atonement sacrifice. The presence of God is not among them, not even the symbol of that presence.

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Its actually just the sacrifice of atonement that would be affected by that. But then, that says a lot, doesn't it? No symbolic atonement of the nation-as they, as a nation, have rejected the atonement offered by Jesus Christ, so they can't even make an atonement sacrifice. The presence of God is not among them, not even the symbol of that presence.

The theory of some is that the Antichrist will locate the ark of the covenant and then reestablish the covenant with the Jews. This would deceive the Jews into believing he is the Messiah.

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The theory of some is that the Antichrist will locate the ark of the covenant and then reestablish the covenant with the Jews. This would deceive the Jews into believing he is the Messiah.

He may not even have to do that; many Jews believe that whoever is the one responsible for rebuilding the temple will be the messiah.

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There would be very good reason that the ark was hidden by the priests deep inside the Temple mount.  That area is off limits to archeology.

All the Israelis have to do is decisively win another Arab-Israeli war and the Temple will be theirs (see Psalm 83).  All of the implements have

already been made by the Temple Mount Faithful organization in Jerusalem.  They need the ashes of the red heffer in order to purify the Temple.

The Levite priests are trained and their garments are make.  The Temple proper could be erected in 3 weeks.  It could happen at any time.

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There would be very good reason that the ark was hidden by the priests deep inside the Temple mount.  That area is off limits to archeology.

All the Israelis have to do is decisively win another Arab-Israeli war and the Temple will be theirs (see Psalm 83).  All of the implements have

already been made by the Temple Mount Faithful organization in Jerusalem.  They need the ashes of the red heffer in order to purify the Temple.

The Levite priests are trained and their garments are make.  The Temple proper could be erected in 3 weeks.  It could happen at any time.

 

There are no priests today.  None can prove their genealogy.  The reason the sacrifice failed was that there were no priests who could prove their genealogy after the house of archives was destroyed in a fire caused by the seditious. Anyone practicing as a priest today would be poluted.

 

Ezr 2:62  These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.
Ezr 8:1  These are now the chief of their fathers, and this is the genealogy of them that went up with me from Babylon, in the reign of Artaxerxes the king.
Ezr 8:3  Of the sons of Shechaniah, of the sons of Pharosh; Zechariah: and with him were reckoned by genealogy of the males an hundred and fifty.
Ne 7:5  And my God put into mine heart to gather together the nobles, and the rulers, and the people, that they might be reckoned by genealogy. And I found a register of the genealogy of them which came up at the first, and found written therein,
Ne 7:64  These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but it was not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.
 
After the six day war, we were told that the Jews had a prefabricated temple ready and would errect it in months.  No doubt todays rumours are just as false.
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It's a myth that there are no priests today.  It's a myth perpetrated by the "replacement theologians", but its origin goes back to Augustine of Hippo (St. Augustine).

 

Anyone with the last name Cohen (or a variation of this) can easily trace their geneology is a Levite.  The temple garments are ready and waiting as well as all implements.

 

Cohen-Levi Family Heritage

http://www.cohen-levi.org/the_center/the_center.htm

 

The Cohanim - DNA Connection

The fascinating story of how DNA studies confirm an ancient biblical tradition.

http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48936742.html

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Also, any Jew with "Levi" in their last name is a Levite. 

 

There is a group in Jerusalem called The Temple Mount Faithful making plans to rebuild the "third"/"tribulation" temple.  Here's an article from the Way of Life website about those plans:

http://www.wayoflife.org/index_files/preparation_for_rebuilding_jewish_temple.html

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There are no priests today.  None can prove their genealogy.  The reason the sacrifice failed was that there were no priests who could prove their genealogy after the house of archives was destroyed in a fire caused by the seditious. Anyone practicing as a priest today would be poluted.

 

Ezr 2:62  These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.
Ezr 8:1  These are now the chief of their fathers, and this is the genealogy of them that went up with me from Babylon, in the reign of Artaxerxes the king.
Ezr 8:3  Of the sons of Shechaniah, of the sons of Pharosh; Zechariah: and with him were reckoned by genealogy of the males an hundred and fifty.
Ne 7:5  And my God put into mine heart to gather together the nobles, and the rulers, and the people, that they might be reckoned by genealogy. And I found a register of the genealogy of them which came up at the first, and found written therein,
Ne 7:64  These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but it was not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.
 
After the six day war, we were told that the Jews had a prefabricated temple ready and would errect it in months.  No doubt todays rumours are just as false.

 

And of course the Holocaust was probably fake too. What an idiot Hitler was for waging a war against a bunch of "fake" Jews. Yeah, we got ya! I really wish someone would tell me when the Jews became completely extinct so that I can get a free ticket to a talk show and find out who my real daddy is :)

Even though I have PERSONALLY seen the Center of Kohanim and seen some of the relics on display which ANYONE IN JERUSALEM can see, it was really just a rumor and I was probably intoxicated from the chemicals being used next door in Damascus.

 

Amazing why Preterist Calvinists who rush to the defense of the Septuagint are so interested in a fundamental Baptist forum. Since the Jews are so good at "rumors", I'll pitch in another one: The Jesuits have people that deliberately infiltrate fundamentalist forums.

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And of course the Holocaust was probably fake too. What an idiot Hitler was for waging a war against a bunch of "fake" Jews. Yeah, we got ya! I really wish someone would tell me when the Jews became completely extinct so that I can get a free ticket to a talk show and find out who my real daddy is :)

Even though I have PERSONALLY seen the Center of Kohanim and seen some of the relics on display which ANYONE IN JERUSALEM can see, it was really just a rumor and I was probably intoxicated from the chemicals being used next door in Damascus.

 

Amazing why Preterist Calvinists who rush to the defense of the Septuagint are so interested in a fundamental Baptist forum. Since the Jews are so good at "rumors", I'll pitch in another one: The Jesuits have people that deliberately infiltrate fundamentalist forums.

How 'bout the "Turkish Jew" fantasy? I've run into people in bible forums before that claim that the Jews in Israel are not real Jews but "Turkish Jews" (descendants of Khazars), whatever that is suppose to mean. Seems Texe Marrs has been pushing this nonsense also. 

 

I had one nut tell me that the Jews in Israel were fake Jews because the term "Jew" only meant "Jewish by religion" and that the real Jews were unidentified Gentiles living in the United States. I'm finding many KJVO folks believing this tripe too.

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How 'bout the "Turkish Jew" fantasy? I've run into people in bible forums before that claim that the Jews in Israel are not real Jews but "Turkish Jews" (descendants of Khazars), whatever that is suppose to mean. Seems Texe Marrs has been pushing this nonsense also. 

 

I had one nut tell me that the Jews in Israel were fake Jews because the term "Jew" only meant "Jewish by religion" and that the real Jews were unidentified Gentiles living in the United States. I'm finding many KJVO folks believing this tripe too.

That theory was made popular by Arthur Koestler back in the early 70s. He was a German Communist trained of all places...gasp... the same Austrian Jesuit school that trained Hitler.

It's becoming popular in KJVO circles because Calvinism has been rearing it's head, and traditional Calvinists were amillennial. But, in order to be successful at poisoning the fundamentalist churches, you can't stray too far off of what are the generally accepted views of eschatology, so they find a place in the middle-Preterism or Pre Wrath. The Catholic church can't afford to have "real" Jews because that would mean that they don't get their kingdom on earth. That's why John Calvin, although piously acting as if he denounced the RCC, never truly broke away from their doctrines, infant baptism, spiritual presence of the Holy Spirit in the eucharist, amillennialism and of course, murdering "heretics". The Catholic church used John Calvin to split the reformers, and they will use Calvinism's resurrection to split Baptist churches because they are the biggest threat to the RCC. 

 

Thus the existence of the Jew is the biggest obstacle to the eschatological views of the RCC and Calvinism because if there really are "real" Jews in Israel, then that kills their theology. 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Sorry to bump a thread that has been quiet for awhile, but I've been absent from the forums for a few months and this topic is something that has touched me personally. 

 

I know someone who is involved, heavily, in the Hebraic Roots Movement. This individual is very much a fan of Michael Rood, Mark Biltz, Jim Staley, 119 Ministries, Jewish Jewels, etc. For awhile, I listened to this person. They were raised in a Christian home (IFB, as a matter of fact), went to Bible college, so I assumed they, of all people, would know their stuff.

 

Folks, this is a movement that is propped up by demonic, seducing spirits. It is such a clever vehicle for Satan to tempt Christians away from the saving faith in Jesus Christ. I know this, because for a very, very brief time I studied it myself. Many people involved are well meaning people. People who have been told that if they follow these teachings, they are the "true believers". They are told that we (Christians) are Jews. The true Jews. That we are grafted into the vine that is the Jewish nation of Israel. You are told that all versions of the Bible, save for a few "Hebrew" translations, are perversions of the Scriptures. That all other translations were commissioned by Constantine, thus tainted with Pagan words, such as "God", "Jesus", and "Holy Spirit". You must use terminology such as "YHVH" for God, "Yeshua HaMashiach" for Jesus the Messiah and "Ruach HaKodesh" for the Holy Spirit. Otherwise you're speaking a Pagan language, and God cannot hear you.

 

At first, it seems like fun. Jewish culture and rites are fascinating. The holy feast days are interesting, especially if you've never studied them. But here is where it becomes prOBlematic - the Law. While the HRM are quick to say, "oh, we don't believe in works-based salvation" you can be rest assured that you will be introduced to their method of picking and choosing which of the mitzvot they follow. Some follow most of them, such as men not shaving their beards. Some believe that was merely a cultural thing. I went to websites where Hebrew Roots wives discussed how they were covering their furniture in plastic, because it was their "niddah" (menstrual period, time of uncleanliness) and how they missed being able to hold their husband's hand during prayer time those twelve days a month and lamented at how difficult it is to find a local mikvah (ritual bath) that will accept non-Jews. 

 

This person I was in contact with told me all about the eve of Passover, and how you must inspect your entire home (including underneath furniture and kitchen appliances) for every last crumb of leaven, and how it must be removed in a ceremonial fashion with a wooden spoon, by the eldest son in the home. I was told that I needed to contact a Rabbi to discuss how to keep a kosher kitchen (which typically includes three sets of dishes, pots/pans and utensils and two of each appliance). I was told that dispensational theology is a lie and that Paul was a false apostle. That all of the epistles were "added by the Catholic Church" and should not be considered the Word of God. I can tell you, there is a lot of heavy Scripture twisting that goes on to support these beliefs.

 

If a HRM follower believes in the rapture at all, they believe in post-tribulation rapture. You will find a lot of HRM movement folks in the "doomsday prepper" movement. The two tend to overlap, strangely enough. Another strange overlap is how many HRM followers also follow BOB Larsen. It's an enticing movement. It promises deeper understanding of the Scriptures, because hey, you learn the "real language" of God. It promises great spiritual rewards. It teaches Christians to fear, at an almost superstitious level, everything from birthdays to eating anything with gelatin in it. It claims it is not works-based, yet you are constantly tethered to the OT law. It discounts all of the Epistles, claims it is entirely NT, and yet most of their supporting Scriptures are pulled out of context from OT snippets of Scripture. The only NT verse they throw around, and it is a proof-text of their entire belief system, is 2 Peter 3:16. 

 

Then there is an OBsessive OBservance of the "true Sabbath", or Shabbat. You can't go shopping on Shabbat. You can't cook on Shabbat. You have to attend Shabbat service on Friday night and Saturday. You must do Havdalah (which signifies the end of the Sabbath), otherwise you haven't properly OBserved the Shabbat. You have to partake of wine, make challah, light candles, say all of these prayers in Hebrew. It just becomes exhausting. I suppose if you were raised Jewish, this all comes naturally, but to a Christian these are simply manmade rituals that cause stress, confusion, and sometimes fear that you won't do it correctly.

 

Praise the LORD He opened my eyes sometime just before Christmas. We had already loosely OBserved Hanukkah and I had decided we were not going to do Christmas. I was becoming discontent at church, even to the point of posting passive-aggressive FB posts every time my pastor posted one about what it means that Jesus fulfilled the law. I quickly asked the Lord to forgive me for my blindness. I know this must have made the devil angry, because there were some rough patches for awhile after that, but I am so glad He showed me how to see the HRM for what it truly is - a lie straight from the pits of hell! So many people go into the HRM professing Christ, and many leave and become fully Jewish converts, because if you are always told the Trinity is a lie, that a huge portion of the Bible was written by a Pagan liar, and that one must keep the law as their salvation, then why wouldn't you simply abandon your faith in Jesus as the Messiah and become a full-fledged Jew?

 

I could go on and on about this topic, but I have to say that if you are not strong in your faith or you are struggling with spiritual warfare, do not even look into the HRM. The websites are very convincing. The leaders are not ignorant. They know the Scriptures, but they do not understand them. It is so easy to be lead astray by this false doctrine.

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