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Hebrew Roots Sacred Name


2T3:16

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Not eat raisins. Really. Why?

I think it has something to do with kosher rules. A Jewish person is not supposed to eat any grape derived product unless from sowing the seeds to the bottling/packaging, every aspect has been handled by Jews. A Gentile cannot touch any part of the process. That's why they have kosher wines and grape juices specifically for seders. 

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I think this is relevant (but may deserve it's own thread). It is 2 hours and presented by a NONBELIEVER (warning) who in the 1st hour explains pharisees, the Torah, and modern day orthodox Jews. In the 2rd hour he presents an argument for Shem-Tov's Matthew being orginal (predating the Greek Matthew). At some point this stuff will probably have to be "confronted". I gave the description in case you don't want to hear anything a non-believer has to say about this stuff:

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Hi everyone!  I just came back to OB, yesterday.  I know this thread is over a month old, but this is timely for me as well.  I left the Internet b/c, after 6 years, the Messianic Jews haven't stopped their heresy on the web.  They are deluded.  I believe the "Messy Antics" came about in the 1970's via Martin Rosen (Moishe Rosen) who wasn't even a Jew.  Jewish law states that to be a Jew, one must be "halachically" Jewish.  For those who don't know, this means the bloodline is from the maternal side of the family.  This is a manmade law, by the Beis Din, the highest Rabbinal council in Judaism.  It doesn't hold any Biblical merit, whatsoever.  Over 90% of MJ's aren't Jewish by blood.  The ones that are, they parade around in their temples and worship like a god.  They play Jewish dress up, or as another post said, they are "wannabe Jews."  Jews, who go to these temples are out in 3 years max.  They head straight back to Judaism and are stronger than ever.  They go straight to Orthodox - Hasidic shuls or synangoes.  Statistics prove that Messianic Jews don't win people to the Lord.  How could they when they practice heresey.  Statistically speaking, Jews are won to the Lord, by Bible Believing Christians.

Someone mentioned Jews for Jesus.  J4J's are not Messianic Jews.  They do believe in salvation "by grace through faith in Jesus Christ."  However, they have become very weak evangelicals.  Some time ago, Jews also started a counter missionary group called "Jews for Judaism."  It is especially big in Israel.  Also, many Jews believe that MJ's are Christians.  They don't know that MJ's don't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ.  In reality, they are a parasite that attempts to proselytize both Christians and Jews, although they are a cult.  





 

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candlelight...

 

I knew Moishe Rosen when I lived in Denver, CO.  He was very Jewish.  His parents were Reform Jews from Austria.  He and his wife trusted Christ in 1953 and Moishe became a Baptist minister.  He founded Jews for Jesus in 1973.  He passed away May 22, 2010.  However, Moishe Rosen isn't the "originator" of "Messy Antics" (Messianic Judaism).  Here is a portion of an article written by Dr. Mark Robinson, director of Jewish Awareness Ministries (a non Messianic/Hebrew Roots Jewish evangelism ministry) called "Doctrinal Dangers in the Messianic Movement":

 

HISTORY OF MESSIANIC JUDAISM

 

Present-day Messianic Judaism has its origins in the Hebrew Christian Alliance of America (HCAA) which was established in 1915. At the 1973 biennial meeting of the HCAA in Bradenton, Florida, there was an effort to change the name to Messianic Jewish Alliance of America. This change did not take place until 1975 but 1973 can be looked at as the first organized attempt to begin the modern-day Messianic Movement. Then in 1975, Phil Goble, a Gentile believer, published Everything You Need to Grow a Messianic Synagogue. American Board of Missions to the Jews (now Chosen People Ministries) reviewed the manual and attributed the beginning of Messianic Synagogues to Goble.4

 

Presently there are more than 300 Messianic congregations5 throughout the world. The majority of these congregations are located in the United States. Some Jewish believers will drive many miles, passing good Bible believing churches, to be part of these congregations.

 

4 The Chosen People, Messianic Synagogues Commentary, Vol. LXXXI No.5, page 14, Jan. 1976.

 

5 Wasserman, Jeffrey, Messianic Jewish Congregations: Who Sold this Business to the Gentiles?, pg. 3, University Press of America, 2000.

I attended a Messianic Jewish congregation in Denver, Colorado for about 10 years...and you are correct, these congregations do not evangelize...their main focus is "Jewish identity", not Christ.  I went off and on for 10 years.  I was raised in Reform Judaism, which is very liberal.  When I trusted Christ in 1974, going "back to Jewish roots was the last thing on my mind.  I was going to the Messianic congregation because I was told by Messianic Jews that this is what was expected of me.  After I left the Messianic movement, I never "turned back".  My roots are in Christ, but my ethnicity as a Jew will never change, and the "heritage" is rich. 

 

It is also true that the majority of the members in Messianic congregation are Gentiles (wannabee Jews).

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candlelight...

 

I knew Moishe Rosen when I lived in Denver, CO.  He was very Jewish.  His parents were Reform Jews from Austria.  He and his wife trusted Christ in 1953 and Moishe became a Baptist minister.  He founded Jews for Jesus in 1973.  He passed away May 22, 2010.  However, Moishe Rosen isn't the "originator" of "Messy Antics" (Messianic Judaism).  Here is a portion of an article written by Dr. Mark Robinson, director of Jewish Awareness Ministries (a non Messianic/Hebrew Roots Jewish evangelism ministry) called "Doctrinal Dangers in the Messianic Movement":

 

I attended a Messianic Jewish congregation in Denver, Colorado for about 10 years...and you are correct, these congregations do not evangelize...their main focus is "Jewish identity", not Christ.  I went off and on for 10 years.  I was raised in Reform Judaism, which is very liberal.  When I trusted Christ in 1974, going "back to Jewish roots was the last thing on my mind.  I was going to the Messianic congregation because I was told by Messianic Jews that this is what was expected of me.  After I left the Messianic movement, I never "turned back".  My roots are in Christ, but my ethnicity as a Jew will never change, and the "heritage" is rich. 

 

It is also true that the majority of the members in Messianic congregation are Gentiles (wannabee Jews).

My brother in law, Elisha, was personal friends with Moishe through the friendship of Elisha' father (a Holocaust survivor). Moishe spent time trying to convert him but he never capitulated. We were intending on going to his funeral in 2010 but that's around the time Elisha and I started having problems with a Muslim group. 

 

So yes, Moishe was definitely Jewish. Very liberal and ecumenical, but nonetheless Jewish.

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The Orthodox/Hasidic, Conservative, and Conservadox Jews are wrong about Moishe Rosen, then.  Sadly, angry Jews believe that born again Christians are like the Jews yoked with Moishe Rosen.  I did know he was a Baptist minister, but was led to believe he became Messianic b/c his dad was a Jew.  Thanks for clarifying LindaR and Dr. James Ach.   

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They get around that by claiming...

 

1 Samuel 15:22 
And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

and...
 
Hosea 6:6 
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
 
Well...let me recant.  I don't know if "they" claim that or not.  I did hear a Jewish man use those verses to explain away their lack of sacrifice though.  It wouldn't surprise me if "they" do the same.
 
 

 

If this is their excuse then I sure hope they are absolutely perfect, because to transgress one is to transgress ALL.

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If this is their excuse then I sure hope they are absolutely perfect, because to transgress one is to transgress ALL.

This thread was started on my birthday and here we are two months later and we're still posting in it on my wife's birthday!

 

They can't properly offer sacrifices without the temple, and as the OT shows and the NT tells us, no one can keep the law which is why we need a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord, the One and Only Way to salvation and right standing with God.

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This thread was started on my birthday and here we are two months later and we're still posting in it on my wife's birthday!

 

They can't properly offer sacrifices without the temple, and as the OT shows and the NT tells us, no one can keep the law which is why we need a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord, the One and Only Way to salvation and right standing with God.

 

It is not the temple that stops them offering sacrifices, it is the fact that there are no priests able to offer the sacrifices.  Th sacrIFBices did not cease for lack of a temple but because there were no priests able to prove their genealogy, due to the house of records being destroyed.

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It is not the temple that stops them offering sacrifices, it is the fact that there are no priests able to offer the sacrifices.  Th sacrIFBices did not cease for lack of a temple but because there were no priests able to prove their genealogy, due to the house of records being destroyed.

That's not what they believe. They believe the sacrifices must be done within the temple system and they do believe they know who the priests are. Whether they are right or not, they have family listings of those who will be the priests when they get the temple rebuilt, according to their beliefs such will eventually happen.

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That's not what they believe. They believe the sacrifices must be done within the temple system and they do believe they know who the priests are. Whether they are right or not, they have family listings of those who will be the priests when they get the temple rebuilt, according to their beliefs such will eventually happen.

 

That's not what they believe. They believe the sacrifices must be done within the temple system and they do believe they know who the priests are. Whether they are right or not, they have family listings of those who will be the priests when they get the temple rebuilt, according to their beliefs such will eventually happen.

In 2007, Israel held the International Conference of Descendants showing that the Kohanim tribe are the sons of Aaron and from the tribe of Levi. There is even a website dedicated to this, and the Center for Kohanim is on the west side of Old City Jerusalem in the Jewish Quarter.

 

The Sanhedrin came back to life in 2006, and among them and other Temple Mount volunteers spent almost $30 million to restore the Temple and all the relics and priest garb. It's not a question of IF this will ever happen, but when.

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