2 Thessalonians 2:3 - "falling Away" Or "departure"?

[beameup]

The fact that the King James translators not only translated the apocraphal books, but included them in the King James tells me all I want to know.

However, the King James is the only Bible I use, as I consider it the very best translation into English. It is what I started with 50 years ago

and continue to use.  I use it linked to the Strong's Concordance in order to look into very specific Koine Greek words.

The fact is that apostasia took on "new meaning" following its adoption and transliteration into English and prior to the KJV.

 

Unfortunately, the "whole world" does not revolve around the United States and the English language, but there are people in every corner of the world that have access to the word of God in their native language.

I can attest to this first-hand, as I recently returned from 6 years in the Philippines. I am not stuck in an ethnocentric "superior mindset" as are some.

Edited September 19, 2013 by beameup

[heartstrings]

^{A saved person cannot be lost again. So if one of us "falls away",  could this be a symptom?}

^{Matthew 24:12} And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

 

We have homosexuals getting their 'rights' and now it is pretty much accepted by this world. We have a pro abortionist, pro gay, pro gun control(pro gun confiscation actually) man in the Whitehouse. We have people slaughtering people all over the world....and it's getting more and more prevalent. They are all screaming "let us break their bands asunder and cast away their chords form us..." and that is happening at break-neck speed right before our eyes...how could we do anything else but 'wax cold' or draw closer to God?

Edited September 19, 2013 by heartstrings

[JerryNumbers]

 

^{A saved person cannot be lost again. So if one of us "falls away",  could this be a symptom?}

^{Matthew 24:12} And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

 

We have homosexuals getting their 'rights' and now it is pretty much accepted by this world. We have a pro abortionist, pro gay, pro gun control(pro gun confiscation actually) man in the Whitehouse. We have people slaughtering people all over the world....and it's getting more and more prevalent. They are all screaming "let us break their bands asunder and cast away their chords form us..." and that is happening at break-neck speed right before our eyes...how could we do anything else but 'wax cold' or draw closer to God?

 

 

Falling away does not necessarily means that a person has lost their salvation, and in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 its not referring to losing ones salvation, besides that is impossible even thought some teaches it happens.

[heartstrings]

I agree

[beameup]

Falling away does not necessarily means that a person has lost their salvation, and in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 its not referring to losing ones salvation, besides that is impossible even thought some teaches it happens.

"Falling away" has been occuring since the first century.  Heb 6:6, Luke 8:13, 2 Pet 3:17. 

In the "context" of the passage in 2 Thessalonians 2, the "apostasia" occurs just prior to the revealing of the Antichrist.

[Donillo]

God promised us he would preserve his Word and he did so with the Authorized Version, the King James Bible.  God didn't make any mistakes; it's us, man, whether in typesetting or understanding we err.

 

In my feeble brain, and having never read Greek, "falling away" in this context could mean both to me, the rapture of the saints and what we're living today, a great apostasy, and that both must happen before the man of sin is revealed.  However, I've been taught the former and not the latter.  It doesn't seem to really matter now does it?

I have a question.  Is God English?  If He preserved the KJV for English-speaking people then what did He do for other peoples speaking other languages???

[John81]

I have a question.  Is God English?  If He preserved the KJV for English-speaking people then what did He do for other peoples speaking other languages???

God's preserved Word has also been translated into several other languages as well.

[Ukulelemike]

I have a question.  Is God English?  If He preserved the KJV for English-speaking people then what did He do for other peoples speaking other languages???

Yes, God speaks English, and He is a white European-haven't you seen all His pictures?

 

Seriously, just kidding. Had to be said. However, God DOES speak English, and, like Greek was, so English has been the language of commerce and is a language spoken more widely than any other in the world, so it would make sense for the English version to be---aww, I have to go, I'll finish this later when I can not sound like Ruckman. Sorry.

[ASongOfDegrees]

Yes, God speaks English, and He is a white European-haven't you seen all His pictures?

 

Seriously, just kidding. Had to be said. However, God DOES speak English, and, like Greek was, so English has been the language of commerce and is a language spoken more widely than any other in the world, so it would make sense for the English version to be---aww, I have to go, I'll finish this later when I can not sound like Ruckman. Sorry.

Unbelievable.

[TheSword]

Balderdash. The KJV has it right.

 

Hebrews 6:6- If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

This is the only other time the phrase "fall away" is used in the NT.

 

This is true, but..."fall away" here in Heb 6:6 is translated from a different word here (parapesontes) which is a literal deviation or falling to the side of something. In this case, a departure from the doctrine of Christ as noted in verse 1.

 

The only other occurance of apostasia is found in the above-mentioned Acts 21:21 which talks about Gentiles teaching Jews that they must deliberately forsake (apostasian) Mosaic law and stop circumcising their children.

 

The main difference between the two is a deviation from (Heb 6:6) as opposed to a deliberate turning from (Acts 21:21). It is the difference between going left at a y-intersection and turning completely around to backtrack or leave the path. The "falling away" in 2 Thessaloians 2:3, whatever the event described is, reflects the latter idea. It is a dileberate turn away from and forsaking of whatever the situation is.

[Ukulelemike]

Unbelievable.

Believe it, buddy!

 

 OKay, what I was trying to say is that, just as the NT was written initially in Greek, as it was sort of the language about everyone spoke and read, and thus, was made more available to the people, be it in Rome or Israel or wherever it was sent, until it began to be translated into Syriack and Italic et al, so English has been the sort of official language for quite some time, particularly for commerce, which made the word of God available to more people in this time.

 

Not to imply that English is a superior language, or that, as some claim, (which explains my Ruckman comment), that the KJV is some sort of advance revelation, just that the KJV was a compilation of pretty much everything that had come before from the original languages, (including Hebrew, Greek Aramaic,, Chaldean), but also the many languages it had been translated into as full canon.

 

Now, this is not to say that for a Bible in another language to be good, that it must be directly translated from the KJV, or that one must learn English to have the word of God, as some say, but at least it should be from the TR line that gave us the KJV.

 

I suspect I'm not doing as good a job of explaining myself in this, but there it is.

[JerryNumbers]

I have a question.  Is God English?  If He preserved the KJV for English-speaking people then what did He do for other peoples speaking other languages???

 

God could speak the English language before any man spoke the English language & He knew exactly when the 1st word would be spoken & written in the English language.

 

 

And He did the same for those who speak other languages.

[JerryNumbers]

Believe it, buddy!

 

 OKay, what I was trying to say is that, just as the NT was written initially in Greek, as it was sort of the language about everyone spoke and read, and thus, was made more available to the people, be it in Rome or Israel or wherever it was sent, until it began to be translated into Syriack and Italic et al, so English has been the sort of official language for quite some time, particularly for commerce, which made the word of God available to more people in this time.

 

Not to imply that English is a superior language, or that, as some claim, (which explains my Ruckman comment), that the KJV is some sort of advance revelation, just that the KJV was a compilation of pretty much everything that had come before from the original languages, (including Hebrew, Greek Aramaic,, Chaldean), but also the many languages it had been translated into as full canon.

 

Now, this is not to say that for a Bible in another language to be good, that it must be directly translated from the KJV, or that one must learn English to have the word of God, as some say, but at least it should be from the TR line that gave us the KJV.

 

I suspect I'm not doing as good a job of explaining myself in this, but there it is.

 

You did OK, I understood just what you were saying.

[AVBibleBeliever]

Balderdash. The KJV has it right.

 

Hebrews 6:6- If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

This is the only other time the phrase "fall away" is used in the NT.

 

except here Luke 8:13  They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Edited January 23, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[Gorship]

Not to resurrect an old thread but I was just speaking to someone who has and is a very important mentor to me and they were stating that it seems wrong for the KJB translators to not just use the word "apostasy ", I was a bit stunned to say the least , mentioned that falling away carries the exact same meaning and flows better in the English, this was to no avail, they state it would have been better to be word for word. I don't have the proper knowledge to state anything to that as I would tend to agree if it works out in the English. Perhaps I hold the KJB too high? sad way to end my evening.

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