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2 Thessalonians 2:3 - "falling Away" Or "departure"?


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I have long questioned the translation of apostasia to "falling away" in the King James version.

I have learned that the 5 English translations prior to the King James rendered the word "departure".

 

The King James reads: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,

except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

The word apostasia was directly brought from the Koine Greek into the English language

long before the King James version (changing the ia into y).  To me, the correct translation

would refer to the rapture of the Church and then the revealing of the Antichrist. 

I feel that the deception (supernatural) of the Antichrist will be overwhelming

and the Church must be removed first.

 

Here is a link concerning this topic: http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/TheRapturein2Thessalonians2_3.html

Edited by beameup
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Are you more skilled in Languages than the men involved in the production of the KJV?

If you understand the process used you will know that the passage you refer to was considered by many experts in language before it was settled upon that particular translation of that word in that context.
Now I am not skilled enough to say they are right or wrong, but even so, one man's consideration of such a thing surely must bow to many men's agreement of expertise.
And that is without considering God's hand in it, which we must not dismiss.

Edited by DaveW
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'Apostasia": 1) a falling away, defection, apostasy.

 

this is all Strong's give for the word.  I admit that I don't have any prior translations, so I can't speak to that. However, if it CAN mean a departure, why might it not refer to the same thing, a departure from the faith?

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Doesn't fit with the other occurrence in Acts.

 

Acts 21:21

And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake (rapture) Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

 

Plus one would have to get into all the debates over which Greek was being used by Paul. That is a very bad road to be upon.

 

Romans 1:28

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Edited by MountainChristian
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I have long questioned the translation of apostasia to "falling away" in the King James version.

I have learned that the 5 English translations prior to the King James rendered the word "departure".

 

The King James reads: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,

except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

The word apostasia was directly brought from the Koine Greek into the English language

long before the King James version (changing the ia into y).  To me, the correct translation

would refer to the rapture of the Church and then the revealing of the Antichrist. 

I feel that the deception (supernatural) of the Antichrist will be overwhelming

and the Church must be removed first.

 

Here is a link concerning this topic: http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/TheRapturein2Thessalonians2_3.html

If you believe the KJB is flawed, and flawed to a point of effecting this issue so greatly, why would you use the KJB? As well, if the KJB is flawed, which English Bible do you believe is the preserved Word of God in English?

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2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceaue you by any meanes, for the Lorde shall not come excepte there come a fallyng away first, & that that man of sinne be reuealed, the sonne of perdition, (Bishop)

It is obvious that not all English versions prior to the translating of the KJB did use "departing". 

As I said in another thread, word definitions change over time. 

 

That is why it is important to "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed; rightly dividing the Word of Truth."
 

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God promised us he would preserve his Word and he did so with the Authorized Version, the King James Bible.  God didn't make any mistakes; it's us, man, whether in typesetting or understanding we err.

 

In my feeble brain, and having never read Greek, "falling away" in this context could mean both to me, the rapture of the saints and what we're living today, a great apostasy, and that both must happen before the man of sin is revealed.  However, I've been taught the former and not the latter.  It doesn't seem to really matter now does it?

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I have long questioned the translation of apostasia to "falling away" in the King James version.

I have learned that the 5 English translations prior to the King James rendered the word "departure".

 

The King James reads: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,

except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

The word apostasia was directly brought from the Koine Greek into the English language

long before the King James version (changing the ia into y).  To me, the correct translation

would refer to the rapture of the Church and then the revealing of the Antichrist. 

I feel that the deception (supernatural) of the Antichrist will be overwhelming

and the Church must be removed first.

 

Here is a link concerning this topic: http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/TheRapturein2Thessalonians2_3.html

Balderdash. The KJV has it right.

 

Hebrews 6:6- If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

This is the only other time the phrase "fall away" is used in the NT.

Edited by ASongOfDegrees
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Doesn't fit with the other occurrence in Acts.

 

Acts 21:21

And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake (rapture) Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

 

 

The word "rapture" is not used in any English translation. 

 

Jerome translated the Greek New Testament into Latin in the 4th century (the Vulgate).

He used the Latin word discessio, meaning departure, for the Greek word apostasia.

 

This meaning was continued in the earliest English translations such as the Wycliff Bible (1384), Tyndale Bible (1526),

Coverdale Bible (1535), Cranmer Bible (1539), Breeches Bible (1576),

Beza Bible (1583), and Geneva Bible (1608).  http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/a-defense-of-the-rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23

 

The word harpazō, meaning "caught up" is translated as "rapturo" in the Latin Vulgate of Jerome.

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,

to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

 

Often in Scripture, different Greek words are used in different places to describe the same thing/event.

see 2 Cor 5:1 "house" and 5:2 "house" are different Greek words; 5:1 "tabernacle" and "building" are different words. 

Edited by beameup
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The unveiling of the Antichrist will be the most significant event that the entire world has ever experienced.

There has been a "falling away" since the time of the Apostle Paul.  Why would the Holy Spirit juxtapose

a "non event" of apostacy (which has been occurring for 2,000 years) with the revelation of the Antichrist?

 

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia) first,

and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,

or that is worshipped 

 

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel  Galatians 1:6

Edited by beameup
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The word "rapture" is not used in any English translation. 

 

Jerome translated the Greek New Testament into Latin in the 4th century (the Vulgate).

He used the Latin word discessio, meaning departure, for the Greek word apostasia.

 

This meaning was continued in the earliest English translations such as the Wycliff Bible (1384), Tyndale Bible (1526),

Coverdale Bible (1535), Cranmer Bible (1539), Breeches Bible (1576),

Beza Bible (1583), and Geneva Bible (1608).  http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/a-defense-of-the-rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23

 

The word harpazō, meaning "caught up" is translated as "rapturo" in the Latin Vulgate of Jerome.

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,

to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

 

Often in Scripture, different Greek words are used in different places to describe the same thing/event.

see 2 Cor 5:1 "house" and 5:2 "house" are different Greek words; 5:1 "tabernacle" and "building" are different words. 

 

The words English and Bible aren't found in any of the English Bibles either! Just because a word isn't found in the Bible doesn't mean that we can't use it to describe something that is found in the Bible. Mountain Christian was simply saying that if the Word was referring to this particular event than it would also be referring to it in Acts. And while I disagree with his logic (if it meant departure, that does fit in the verse in Acts) I also disagree with the gross assumption that the only way we can understand God's Word is to study Greek. Do we believe that the KJB is not only inerrant, but also perfect (complete)? If it is complete than we don't need Greek to explain it, we just need to learn English!!!!

Edited by musician4god1611
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