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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Pastor’S Salary Cap


The Glory Land

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Steve, thanks for your post....I'm not in the position to judge that pastor but what you describe may sound a bit much. I knew a similar pastor and he ended up being found to be stealing money from the church. However if your pastor that you mentioned is a hard worker and the church volunteered those things....more power to them.

I just get tired of the idea that a pastors finances seem to be up for public scrutiny so I tend to defend before I criticize. I figure the laborer is worthy of his hire, and God will deal with a greedy pastor. Some pastors also may give more back to the church than you would ever know, so that his salary may look like more on paper than it really is due to his giving practices. I figure the benefit of the doubt is best, let God deal with the rest.

A small example of the benefit of the doubt.....a nice lady in our church who doesn't have a lot of money came in recently with a brand new Coach bag. I complimented her on it and she quickly explained that it was a gift from a family member. But how many people would rather gossip about her having a $300 handbag rather than being thankful God blessed her with it?

Trust me!  I understand! 

One of my co-workers at my secular job told me one day, "All of you preachers are in it for the money!"

I simply started laughing.  He said, "What's so funny?  It's true!"

I said, "Look, if I were in it for the money, why am I WORKING HERE???  If I were in it for the money I would be at __________ church!"

 

He got the point!

 

Seriously, I think it takes a lot of wisdom, humility, and sound judgment from the Pastor and the church to come to REASONABLE and moderate agreement.  The decision should meet his financial needs, not only for the present, but also for the future, but it should be REASONABLE and MODERATE, for testimony's sake. 

If individuals in the church are led of the Lord to give a love offering on top of that, then so be it. 

 

It is a touchy subject, and a difficult one to manage.  I think it all boils down to the ATTITUDE of both the church and the preacher.  The preacher should have an attitude of humility, and a willingness to do more with less.  The church should have the attitude of doing its utmost to go "above and beyond" to provide for their shepherd and minister.

 

The problem is that human nature, greed, pride, and power all enter into the equation, and men on both sides (preacher and congregation) have gone too far either way. 

Too many young men coming out of Bible colleges today look at the ministry as a CAREER instead of a calling, and make demands before they even have experience.  They clearly are not interested in the Matthew 20:28 viewpoint on the ministry!

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Our pastor is very loved, he gets cooked plates of food for him and his wife, pies, cakes, things from the gardens as in fresh green beans, corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, beets, cabbage, onions, etc, apples, peaches, black berries, strawberries, etc, in the fall hams, parts of a beef, deer meat, squirrels, rabbits, and I’ve seen eggs going into his car. No one tells him a word, he comes out the church and there it is in his car. He has passed some of it on to the needy, and gave some to the old members in “old folks” home. He gets suits, and dress shirts and pants, dress shoes, religious ties. He gets gifts of money too. Now that is just members doing something Jesus laid on their heart.

 

He can’t serve God and the church properly if he has to care for his earthly mammon. Our church takes in enough to do that for him. I’m a backup usher and I know for a fact he puts a lot of his pay back in the plate. He takes the pay so we can get the big blessing of being the giver. The church pays what you are calling perks, his used car, tires, filling his fuel barrel, insurance for him and his wife. If he refused payment, how could we get the blessing of being the giver?

 

We have 20 missionaries we are giving some monthly support to. It was 22 but one died last year and wasn’t replaced and one got sick this year and died just a couple of months after retiring. The rest goes out to local people in need. Jesus is blessing us and we don’t want to bury any talents. What we take in we pay out except for a small reserve the ungodly will get after the rapture. There will be no dollars in heaven.

 

We do these things cause we love him and want to be a help in the ministry that Jesus called him to. We can all see his hard labor in the church and outside the church. There is no time of day or night he can't be called. He will get out of the bed and pray, unless his elderly wife is sick he will come walking into the hospital room.

 

Matthew 10

42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

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I know of a church where the Pastor's salary + perks adds up easily to near 100K per year, but the same guy demands that any new "staff" who go "full time" take a 12K salary.  A lot of inequity there.  There were certainly SOME wealthy people in the church, but only a handful - the rest of us were struggling to make ends meet.  I know of several families that had several children, and it was all they could do to put food on the table and pay their rent and utilities. 

I consider it outrageous because I don't really think the Pastor understood the value of all the perks he had - He used church members to babysit his kids, but didn't pay them.  He used members to do many things without paying them.  The church bought his vehicles (2), gave him a housing allowance and actually bought a huge house for him complete with indoor swimming pool, gave him a clothing allowance (??? - who gets a clothing allowance anyway!), cell phones, etc., etc., etc., while his staff members were literally living in poverty on church property,driving jalopes. 

Furthermore, the emotional manipulation to wring money out of people for everything was deplorable - but again, I believe this particular man was simply doing what he was taught to do naively - most unfortunate indeed!

I don't think this particular pastor was greedy - just clueless.  Basically his "salary" was "icing on the cake" because the church paid for everything else he had, needed or wanted, so his salary was money in the bank - to the tune of 60K a year. 

In my view, that was over the top.  Not the salary as much as everything else the church did for him -especially considering the median income of the church. 

I will give him credit for being a hard worker though - he was definitely not a slouch.  He was an avid soul-winner, and very busy. 

 

I have always been of the opinion that a Pastor is better to take LESS than MORE for testimony's sake - to prevent any false accusations about "being in it for the money."  In this case, 60K was a livable salary for that area - a comfortable salary, as you say.   All the other perks were just too much, in my view.

 

Philippians 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

 

Hopefully that clarifies things for you!

 

I fear that is true for many pastors.

 

One church I was a member of they were harping for more money nearly at every Sunday morning service, the pastor was well paid, & they had several older couples on fixed incomes who were doing without many things, even medicine that was needed. Yet they had many who were living high on the hog & the older couples were not getting any help.

 

Strange thing in this world, most everyone is living on what they bring in, & have little to spare if any, whether they make little or lots of money. The main differences is the ones with more money just satisfy a few more of their wants while buying more & more expensive wants.

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Our pastor is very loved, he gets cooked plates of food for him and his wife, pies, cakes, things from the gardens as in fresh green beans, corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, beets, cabbage, onions, etc, apples, peaches, black berries, strawberries, etc, in the fall hams, parts of a beef, deer meat, squirrels, rabbits, and I’ve seen eggs going into his car. No one tells him a word, he comes out the church and there it is in his car. He has passed some of it on to the needy, and gave some to the old members in “old folks” home. He gets suits, and dress shirts and pants, dress shoes, religious ties. He gets gifts of money too. Now that is just members doing something Jesus laid on their heart.

 

He can’t serve God and the church properly if he has to care for his earthly mammon. Our church takes in enough to do that for him. I’m a backup usher and I know for a fact he puts a lot of his pay back in the plate. He takes the pay so we can get the big blessing of being the giver. The church pays what you are calling perks, his used car, tires, filling his fuel barrel, insurance for him and his wife. If he refused payment, how could we get the blessing of being the giver?

 

We have 20 missionaries we are giving some monthly support to. It was 22 but one died last year and wasn’t replaced and one got sick this year and died just a couple of months after retiring. The rest goes out to local people in need. Jesus is blessing us and we don’t want to bury any talents. What we take in we pay out except for a small reserve the ungodly will get after the rapture. There will be no dollars in heaven.

 

We do these things cause we love him and want to be a help in the ministry that Jesus called him to. We can all see his hard labor in the church and outside the church. There is no time of day or night he can't be called. He will get out of the bed and pray, unless his elderly wife is sick he will come walking into the hospital room.

 

Matthew 10

42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

 

Sounds like you got a keeper!  Praise the Lord!  I enjoyed reading this post - it is always exciting to hear how the Lord is working amongst His people!

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"Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, [is it] a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of [this] power over you, [are] not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live [of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel."

 

Now, I am having a real hard time seeing this applying only to evangelists and missionaries, but not pastors. Do pastors labour in the work of the gospel? So pastors sow spiritual tings to those of their church/community? If so, then they are eligible to live of the gospel and reap carnal things of the church. Just because Paul speaks of himself and Barnabas in the context, does not mean it applies ONLY to them-the clear context would be anyone who labors in the work of God.

 

The comparison is also given of the priests-when working in the temple, they lived off the things given to the temple-a portion was commanded, by God, for the priests to receive-they were not missionaries nor evangelists;they specificallt remained at the temple to do the work of God and to serve the people-so do Pastors.

 

Also, the same example, of not muzzling the oxen treading out the corn is used in relation specifically to elders who rule well, in 1Tim 5:17 & 18, in a letter written to a new pastor, Timothy, so again, the implication is clear-it is the right and ordination of God that an elder, or pastor, should live off the gospel. And in fact, if we understand the context clealry, that it would be his right to partake of it as he has need, or sees fit, as an ox would, as he was hungry, reach into the corn that he is treading out, and eat of it. The owners were not to muzzle him, or control him so he can't take of it at will. If we had more honest pastors out there, perhaps it would be right for them to just give them a credit card to draw from as they need, and perhaps give acount at the end of each month or quarter-it would more fully fit the mandate, I believe. 

 

So again, the context in no way even implies that this is for missionaries or evangelists, but for all whose labor is in the gospel.

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Believe it or not, it is about missionaries and evangelists. 

I suggest you check out a book on amazon called Freedom to Give by Daniel Mynyk.  He explains perfectly with enough Scripture that the context of 1 Corinthians 9:14 reveal it is not speaking about pastors.

 

 

Well, since I have the entire Bible to work from, I don't really need someone else's writings to see the context-the Bible must be compared with the Bible. 

 

The point I made above, concerning not muzzling the mouth of the oxen that treadeth the corn being used in both contexts, in 1Cor 9, as well as 1Tim 5, shows that the same concept applies both to evangelists and missionaries, (as Paul and Barnabas), other apostles, AND elders/pastors-the concpet has a clear meaning in both places: they that labour in the gospel have a God-ordained right to live of the gospel, to receive sustenance and maintenance directly from the labour of the gospel. You MIGHT make the argument that 1Cor  9 refers only to evangelists and missionaries, as Paul is referring to himself and Barnabas, (as well as the other Apostles, who, by the way, were all in Jerusalem, not out travelling), though I disagee that it MUST only refer to him, but  1Tim is clearly speaking to pastors/elders.

 

So, no, it still doesn't wash. I see and understand your point, and I applaud any pastor who is not in the work for the money-I, myself being bi-vocational, but there is a clear mandate, from back into the Old Testament following into the new, that those who labour in the work of God have a right to live off the work of God.   

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Believe it or not, it is about missionaries and evangelists. 

I suggest you check out a book on amazon called Freedom to Give by Daniel Mynyk.  He explains perfectly with enough Scripture that the context of 1 Corinthians 9:14 reveal it is not speaking about pastors.

 

 

 

Sorry, I've got a book that is much better than that book you refer to, its the one that says "Holy Bible" on the front cover.

 

So my suggestion is to follow Jesus & stay int he Bible & not follow a man.

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Well, since I have the entire Bible to work from, I don't really need someone else's writings to see the context-the Bible must be compared with the Bible. 

 

The point I made above, concerning not muzzling the mouth of the oxen that treadeth the corn being used in both contexts, in 1Cor 9, as well as 1Tim 5, shows that the same concept applies both to evangelists and missionaries, (as Paul and Barnabas), other apostles, AND elders/pastors-the concpet has a clear meaning in both places: they that labour in the gospel have a God-ordained right to live of the gospel, to receive sustenance and maintenance directly from the labour of the gospel. You MIGHT make the argument that 1Cor  9 refers only to evangelists and missionaries, as Paul is referring to himself and Barnabas, (as well as the other Apostles, who, by the way, were all in Jerusalem, not out travelling), though I disagee that it MUST only refer to him, but  1Tim is clearly speaking to pastors/elders.

 

So, no, it still doesn't wash. I see and understand your point, and I applaud any pastor who is not in the work for the money-I, myself being bi-vocational, but there is a clear mandate, from back into the Old Testament following into the new, that those who labour in the work of God have a right to live off the work of God.   

 

Amen, I did not read your reply till after I posed mine.

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Freedom to Give uses Scripture. 

Using your logic that we don't need to read it because we have the Bible, then we don't need to even discuss Biblical issues at all on these forums.  After all, we have the Bible, right?

And since we have the Bible, let's just turn off the radios, TV's, and even stop our own ears from hearing our pastors.  After all, we don't need them to tell us what the Bible says... we can read it ourselves.

The fact is, we need people such as Daniel Mynyk many times to take us aside and expound to us the way of God more perfectly... especially in light of the fact that so many today have allowed themselves to be deceived into believing false doctrines such as "pastors should be salaried."

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A church cannot expect a pastor to prepare sermons, visit the sick and dying, visit visitors, visit members, meet with members to offer spiritual guidance and counselling, meet with committees and deacons, prepare an order of service, run the business affairs of the church, prepare Bible studies, oversee and train church leadership, recruit people to help, take phone calls, oversee all of the ministries and activities, etc. etc. etc. and not AND hold a job for funds to pay the bills and put milk on his families table. A church big enough to need a full time pastor should compensate that pastor to the best of their ability to free up stress so that the pastor can better serve the church.  

 

If the only thing the pastor does is preach one sermon a week, I might say that a love offering is sufficient for that and that person does not need to be salaried.  However, a pastor does FAR more than that and has a much more stressful job that probably I have.  

 

To say a pastor should not be paid by a church is absurd.  Unless that church wishes to go without a pastor and have guest preachers every week. It is simply not practical or feasible.  Failing to pay a pastor well for his full time duties will put a tremendous strain financially on that family.  It will put a tremendous strain on that marriage, and is almost encouraging marital problems in that home.

 

I have never been in a church where I felt the pastor was overpaid.

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Pastors do preach.  But the question is, are they required to preach the Gospel to the Church of God? 

From what I understand of Scripture, they are not.

Hey, we all are to be equipped to present the Gospel to the lost.  If those that preach the Gospel are to be salaried, then every single person who witnesses Christ to the lost needs a paycheck. 

1 Corinthians 9 is about missionaries and evangelists.... not stationary pastors sitting behind desks.

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Pastors do preach.  But the question is, are they required to preach the Gospel to the Church of God? 

From what I understand of Scripture, they are not.

Hey, we all are to be equipped to present the Gospel to the lost.  If those that preach the Gospel are to be salaried, then every single person who witnesses Christ to the lost needs a paycheck. 

1 Corinthians 9 is about missionaries and evangelists.... not stationary pastors sitting behind desks.

 

I agree that we are all to preach the Gospel.  That is a given.  However, there is vocational ministry, which is quite separate.  Vocational ministry requires much more than preaching the Gospel.  It includes visiting the sick, counselling, overseeing the physical facilities of the church, overseeing the finances, seeing that the church is healthy spiritually and physically, performing weddings and funerals, providing leadership and vision to the church, overseeing all of the ministries and programs of the church, etc.  This will take all of a person's time.  How can a church expect someone to do all of these things AND hold down a separate job to support his family.  It is not physically possible.  Something will get neglected, either the secular job, the church business, or the pastor's family.  

 

I understand that if one is merely preaching, it is hard to understand why that person will be salaried.  If that is all a pastor is doing, he is not doing his job well (unless he is strictly a travelling evangelists, which is a different issue altogether).  

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Pastors do preach.  But the question is, are they required to preach the Gospel to the Church of God? 

From what I understand of Scripture, they are not.

Hey, we all are to be equipped to present the Gospel to the lost.  If those that preach the Gospel are to be salaried, then every single person who witnesses Christ to the lost needs a paycheck. 

1 Corinthians 9 is about missionaries and evangelists.... not stationary pastors sitting behind desks.

 

 

Was Timothy a pastor?

 

2 Timothy 1:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

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Was Timothy a pastor?

 

2 Timothy 1:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Preach the WORD... the Word.  Doesn't say Gospel.  Those that are saved are not in need of the Gospel... the lost are.

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