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Pastor’S Salary Cap


The Glory Land

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Brother "Standing Firm in Christ,"

 

Would not Luke 22:35-36 present a direct reversal by our Lord Jesus Christ of His own instruction from Matthew 10:9-11?

 

Matthew 10:9-11 -- "Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.  And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence."

 

 

Luke 22:35-36 -- "And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing?  And they said, Nothing.  Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

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Brother "Standing Firm in Christ,"
 
Would not Luke 22:35-36 present a direct reversal by our Lord Jesus Christ of His own instruction from Matthew 10:9-11?
 
Matthew 10:9-11 -- "Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.  And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence."
 
 
Luke 22:35-36 -- "And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing?  And they said, Nothing.  Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

the verses appear to show a reversal. Yes.

And Paul seems to say those who are sent out are to be supported

But pastors and elders are not "sent." They are stationary. There is no Scripture that justifies salaried pastors. There are plenty that show the pastors must work though.
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the verses appear to show a reversal. Yes.

And Paul seems to say those who are sent out are to be supported

But pastors and elders are not "sent." They are stationary. There is no Scripture that justifies salaried pastors. There are plenty that show the pastors must work though.

Of course they are 'sent': they are sent to be pastors in a specific place, from where, or what they had been before. I was 'sent' from Reno, NV to Herlong, CA to be a pastor. I am sent.

 

Jesus told His disciples: "Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you." What happened to most of those jesus 'sent"? They became pastors in Jerusalem.

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If my Preacher had to follow SFICs version of the Scriptures, he would not have enough time for bible study, preparing sermons and Sunday School lessons, tending to the sick, dying, needy, greedy, counseling, weddings, funerals and the two thousand other things our Preachers are involved in each week.  Our local church also has a K-12 school as part of its ministry too.  

 

Did anyone mention 1 Timothy 5:17?  

 

"Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine."

 

I thought it unusual that very few of us provided any verses to show what the Scriptures say about caring for our elders.

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A pastor labors (1 Tim.5:17) and the laborer is worthy of his hire (1 Tim. 5:18, Luke 10) regardless of whether the honor is money or respect. A day laborer does not labor for respect, and the ox wants to eat, not be thought well of.

The general principle in Scripture appears for God's ministers (of any variety) to trust Him for their provision (Matt. 6), and for God's people to communicate well to those serving them in The Lord (Gal. 6:6). The details are not specified in Scripture. Seems to me that if a church wants to provide for their pastor so he can focus on spiritual labors by a free will offering, that is well and good. If they want to commit to a regular promised salary, that is well and good. If the early church in Jerusalem makes no mention of providing for their elders, well, the disciples had all things in common, so they were already sharing in everyone else's provision!

If nothing else, one could ask whether it be sinful or appearing of evil to provide for your pastor or to do so by salarying him. Certainly one could find no trace of either - the first is to obey clear principles of Scripture (whoch it would be sinful to ignore), and the second is simply an efficient if modern system of provision. As it is not specifically prohibited, there is nothing wrong or unScriptural in doing so. One would have to wonder at the motives of those who would teach otherwise.

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It amazes me that when we read of the missionaries from years gone by, when the Lord called them to go, they collected together what they could as they prepared to go, and then they went. No going around pleading for money and saying they won't go, or having some missionary board unwilling to allow them to go, until they raised a certain amount of money. Also, many of the missionaries mostly supported their own way once in the field and were grateful to get whatever did come their way from a church or individual Christians.

 

Too many missionaries today, at least from America, think they have to have enough money to live as close to the way they did in America as they can overseas.

 

God has not changed, the Word has not changed, so it must be from a lack of faith.

 

In these modern times there is not a lack of people from all corners of life who go around collecting money from people, some even begging for money in order to do good deeds in their name while they use much of it for self. And the number of people doing this is growing daily.

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Obviously, your preacher doesn't follow the Scriptures at all if he gets a salary. Scripture clearly speaks against salaried pastors.

Acts 4:34-36

King James Version (KJV)

34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

 

SFIC, and whoever else thinks a pastor should not receive a salary,obviously if you are not living in an "Amish" type community, you too are not living according to Scripture.  Now go sell your house and car and give the money to your pastor.

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you are wrong on both statements

I work a full-time job plus pastor a small church that has less than 10 members and 10 visitors.  Working a full-time job is not optimal for church growth.  Kitgrl's statement was correct as it relates to my situation. 

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Pastors should be paid enough that they need not worry about $$.  There are ways though and times, that they should live by faith.  I wonder sometimes about missionaries that "can't go to _______until they raise enough money.  Myabe have their air fare paid, and some for "necessities", but going to the field is a faith mission, and Gos will never let him down who fully trusts in him.

 

Besides, that's what tithes are for in the church! :clapping:

 

(Sorry, I couldn't resist it!)

My sister is married to a missionary.  Their mission field has just changed.  They are no longer going to be missionaries in a foreign country, but will be church planters here in the states.  They have been in the states since the 1st of the year.  They asked for prayers while they waited God's answer on whether to stay missionaries or to get out of the feild and get a regular job.  The whole 8 months they were supported by churches. 

 

He, my brother-in-law, did not work during these 8 months.  He did teach a Sunday school class for his pastor.  I thought , since I mentioned earlier the church I pastor has less than 10 members, that it would be nice for him to come up and spend some time with me helping the church to grow.  He told me that gas was expensive and he didn't have much time since he might have to prepare to find a normal job.  But God did answer his prayer.  He is to stay in the field and be a church planter.  Now he must drive around on "deputation" again to make sure his supporting churches are going to continue supporting and maybe get more support if some drop him.  This will take him into next year sometime when he hopes to be in the state where he will plant a church. 

 

Over a years worth of support and not much work in the ministry.  And his support is more than I make at my full-time, union job.  I must say that missionaries like Amy Carmichael, who did not rely on support, are few and far between these days. 

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I left a church because I didn't feel the pastor's heart was in it.  We had an evangelist come in and do a financial "revival".  During it, he mentioned that we did not pay our pastor enough.  After he left, the trustees made motion to give our pastor a $600.00 a month raise. (If it was a 40 hour work week that would be equivalent to $3.75 an hour raise, WOW)  A little more than a month later, our pastor put finances on the church prayer list and asked us to pray for at least 2 more tithing families to join because we were not hitting budget. 

 

Facts:  the pastor has a wife and 3 kids.  The kids were home-schooled.  The pastor now owns 3 or 4 houses for rental income.  He bought a small, one-man business that employs himself.  I asked him why he needed the business and the houses, and he said he had to provide for his wife if anything should happen to him (this was also counsel from the evangelist).  I talked to him for about 2 minutes about how HE had to do this and HE had to do that.  God never came up once during the conversation.  I actually asked him what his 3 sons would do if he passed and left his wife alone.  Wouldn't they help their mom out?  He looked so shocked at me for asking that question and said it was NOT his kids responsibility to provide for their mother, but it is the parents responsibility period!  That pretty much ended our conversation about his need to work extra and buy up houses.  And now the kids are in private school and mom has a part-time job too. 

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Anyone who doesn't think that a Pastor WORKS doesn't know what a Pastor does.  Sure, if ALL he did was preach a 30-45 min sermon on Sunday, possibly teach a class on Sunday, deliver a small sermon on Wednesday night that would be  a walk in the park and leave plenty of time for a full time job.  But what about all the hours of studying, the hours of pouring out his heart to people who are in trouble, in grief, the hours of traveling to and from different hospitals, jails, detention homes, the ability to cry with broken- hearted people and then in an instant have to turn that emotion off and laugh with others who have just been blessed in some way, have the financial problems not only of his home, but of the church.on his shoulders, counsel people who do not take his counsel many times, not too mention the hours of prayer he has to engage in not only for himself and his family, but for those in his church.  Now I understand that there are some mega churches who can pay really good salaries to their pastors,  and there are others who are just struggling to pay the Pastor a decent salary, but the majority of smaller churches struggle just to give the pastor a tip and then he and his wife many times have to work outside jobs.

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I left a church because I didn't feel the pastor's heart was in it.  We had an evangelist come in and do a financial "revival".  During it, he mentioned that we did not pay our pastor enough.  After he left, the trustees made motion to give our pastor a $600.00 a month raise. (If it was a 40 hour work week that would be equivalent to $3.75 an hour raise, WOW)  A little more than a month later, our pastor put finances on the church prayer list and asked us to pray for at least 2 more tithing families to join because we were not hitting budget. 

 

Facts:  the pastor has a wife and 3 kids.  The kids were home-schooled.  The pastor now owns 3 or 4 houses for rental income.  He bought a small, one-man business that employs himself.  I asked him why he needed the business and the houses, and he said he had to provide for his wife if anything should happen to him (this was also counsel from the evangelist).  I talked to him for about 2 minutes about how HE had to do this and HE had to do that.  God never came up once during the conversation.  I actually asked him what his 3 sons would do if he passed and left his wife alone.  Wouldn't they help their mom out?  He looked so shocked at me for asking that question and said it was NOT his kids responsibility to provide for their mother, but it is the parents responsibility period!  That pretty much ended our conversation about his need to work extra and buy up houses.  And now the kids are in private school and mom has a part-time job too. 

Sounds like a greedy pastor to me.  You did right in getting out from under his thumb.

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Sorry Quinkie, but the Office of Pastor is not work.  It if were work, Paul would not have told them they need to work... they were pastors in Acts 20.  And Paul told them they needed to labour to provide for themselves.

 

"Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine." 1 Tim. 5:17
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