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Here's Why We Are Against Abortion


DeaconDixon

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

This is exactly the type of post Suzy and others were referring to in another thread regarding why it's so hard to try and have a discussion with IFB folks. You are jumping to absurd conclusions.

 

I never said a baby could or could not go to heaven. I simply asked for the Scriptures that tell us there is a special way into heaven for babies or anyone else.

 

Myself, sibling twins were stillborn to my Mom and my first baby sister died shortly after birth. I could go on but my emotional and actual experiences with such have no bearing upon what Scripture does or does not say.

 

We (IFBs) always say we go only by what Scripture clearly teaches, which is why I'm asking for the clear Scripture telling of the alternate ways to enter heaven.

How much clearer can you get with David saying he will go to his baby.  He seemed to be ok with it, so I don't believe the "going to" was talking about seeing his child at the great white throne judgement being cast into hell because it didn't make a conscious decision to accept Christ.  I don't believe it was talking about a casket because there would still be mourning because ain't no casket going to make you feel good about seeing your dead child.  So I believe this Scripture is all about David being with his child in heaven.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

How much clearer can you get with David saying he will go to his baby.  He seemed to be ok with it, so I don't believe the "going to" was talking about seeing his child at the great white throne judgement being cast into hell because it didn't make a conscious decision to accept Christ.  I don't believe it was talking about a casket because there would still be mourning because ain't no casket going to make you feel good about seeing your dead child.  So I believe this Scripture is all about David being with his child in heaven.

First, that verse says nothing at all about there being any way to heaven other than through Christ.

 

Second, none of us know for sure what David meant when he made that statement. Maybe he was saying he would see the baby in heaven, maybe he was saying he too would go to the grave. We don't know.

 

Is Scripture wrong when it says there is only one way to heaven? Is there an "exception" passage which lists one or more other ways a person can get to heaven other than through Christ? Is it possible Scripture doesn't specifically address this and we are left to trust God with the matter, or not?

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Let's just run down to our hospitals and kill all the infants in the nurseries.  After all, the Bible does say "He that winneth souls is wise" and that would be a sure win of many souls for the kingdom.

That is, if your 'die without Christ and still get to heaven' doctrine is true.

 

Since those babies are already under grace, you wouldn't be do anything but disobeying "thou shalt not kill".

 

There is a preponderance of Scripture that makes it clear that the unborn, infants and for lack of a better word, retards, are under grace.  It was clear to David, it's clear to me, besides, it just makes sense!

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Well...I honestly don't believe David alluded to just joining his child in the grave.  After all, he said "...I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever."  Somehow I can't picture him thinking that his grave would be the house of the Lord.

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If those babies are "under grace," then it is because of one reason and one reason only... they trusted Christ.

He that believeth not is condemned.  No man cometh unto the Father but by the Son.

You say there is a preponderance of Scripture to show babies will go to heaven without trusting Christ, yet, in reality there is no preponderance of Scripture that says such.

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You know, I'm 95% certain that DD started this thread to arouse contention & indignation. The sad thing is that we are obliging him. This hasn't even evolved into a nice, congenial discussion; it's full of contention, offenses, pride and blanket statements. On all sides. What say we try to not fall into the trap he set?

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Abortion is murder.  Murder is sin.  Where someone spends eternity is not the issue in discussing abortion.  Life begins at conception and taking the life of an unborn infant at any stage of gestation is murder.

 

Genesis 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

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How much clearer can you get with David saying he will go to his baby.  He seemed to be ok with it, so I don't believe the "going to" was talking about seeing his child at the great white throne judgement being cast into hell because it didn't make a conscious decision to accept Christ.  I don't believe it was talking about a casket because there would still be mourning because ain't no casket going to make you feel good about seeing your dead child.  So I believe this Scripture is all about David being with his child in heaven.

 

You can't get any clearer, but we have some on here that do not go by the teachings of the Bible, but by commandments of men. We have more false teachers propagating their false teachings that ever before while hoping to win Christians to follow them in their false teachings.

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You know, I'm 95% certain that DD started this thread to arouse contention & indignation. The sad thing is that we are obliging him. This hasn't even evolved into a nice, congenial discussion; it's full of contention, offenses, pride and blanket statements. On all sides. What say we try to not fall into the trap he set?

What have I posted that's contentious, offensive, prideful or a blanket statement?

 

Unless you are not referring to me since I don't have a "side".

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You can't get any clearer, but we have some on here that do not go by the teachings of the Bible, but by commandments of men. We have more false teachers propagating their false teachings that ever before while hoping to win Christians to follow them in their false teachings.

Stop making accusations and post the Scripture which says some people can get to heaven without being in Christ. If there is a teaching in Scripture which allows someone to go to heaven without Christ then that means there are verses saying so. Simply because someone states their opinion on the matter, not matter what view they take, doesn't make it a teaching of the Bible.

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Let's just run down to our hospitals and kill all the infants in the nurseries.  After all, the Bible does say "He that winneth souls is wise" and that would be a sure win of many souls for the kingdom.

That is, if your 'die without Christ and still get to heaven' doctrine is true.

Correct!  The anti-Calvinists/Cathlo-sympathizers may also claim that they'll repent or confess to their priest to be forgiven!

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You say there is a preponderance of Scripture to show babies will go to heaven without trusting Christ, yet, in reality there is no preponderance of Scripture that says such.

 

Incorrect sir.  I'm not going to post it again, John81 and I went round and round on this before in another thread.  Robmac's scripture postings today strengthen also the case that the little ones are indeed with the Lord.  One verse doesn't make a doctrine.  

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Incorrect sir.  I'm not going to post it again, John81 and I went round and round on this before in another thread.  Robmac's scripture postings today strengthen also the case that the little ones are indeed with the Lord.  One verse doesn't make a doctrine.  

I can't even count the number of times I've read the Bible through, plus much more reading and studying, and as of yet I've never seen even one verse of Scripture which says any person can get to heaven without being in Christ. If there are verses offering another option for certain people I would very much like to know about them.

 

At this point, I only know of the verses which clearly state that no one can go to heaven without being in Christ. If the Bible doesn't tell us of some other way for babies or anyone else, that doesn't bother me because I trust God with whatever his plan is.

 

I did find out in my readings about the post-mil position that they believe all babies and children that die automatically go to heaven, but they provided no Scripture to support this, and this is one of the reasons they believe the road to heaven really isn't narrow, because if all dead babies and children from the beginning to the end go to heaven, that means there will be far more souls in heaven than there are souls in hell.

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Stop making accusations and post the Scripture which says some people can get to heaven without being in Christ. If there is a teaching in Scripture which allows someone to go to heaven without Christ then that means there are verses saying so. Simply because someone states their opinion on the matter, not matter what view they take, doesn't make it a teaching of the Bible.

 

John, Its been posted many times just for you, yet you ignore it. Why keep on doing it over & over again & again for the same person?

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John, Its been posted many times just for you, yet you ignore it. Why keep on doing it over & over again & again for the same person?

Where are there any posts which proclaim there is another way to heaven other than through Christ? They are not here. If you have any verses which speak of an alternate way for anyone to go to heaven other than through Christ I would like to read them.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

It is obvious to me that this dixon idiot, SFIC and John have no experience with a small child dying or misscarried children. Your wild spectulations would be on the opposite spectrum.

 

Use some sensitively since you are all clueless to what the real truth of the matter is. Think of those who have suffered these losses before you blurt your meaningless opinions.

 

I realize that some have zero life apart from this forum and the internet but you don't have to post misguided or knee jerk opinions about every, single subject.

 

Why use that word?

 

Why does moderators let anyone call anyone an idiot?

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I noticed the quote of Romans 7:9 was overlooked.

What died? Body? Soul? Spirit?

Eph 2:1; Col2:13 something dead was quickened -- obviously not the body.  Rom 7:9

This dead thing was alive and died -- not Adam. "I died" said Paul.

When was it alive? Could their be a time while "it" is still alive that the body could have died -- and the resulting eternal result??

 

It can't be at the chronological dating of the Law or Paul couldn't say that the Law came to a 'living him" and "slew him" before he was conceived or did all of Rom 7 take place "before the foundation of the world"?

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