They Shall Mingle Themselves With The Seed Of Men

[beameup]

Daniel 2 describes a giant statue that represents Babylon (head of gold), Persia (Medo-Persia - chest of silver), Greece (Alexander's empire of bronze) and Rome (two legs of iron).

The feet of the image are "iron mixed with miry clay" (ceramic).  It clearly states that this last phase of the Roman empire will be composed of "the seed of man" mixed with "they" (non-humans).

 

And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. Daniel 2:41-43

[ASongOfDegrees]

Daniel 2 describes a giant statue that represents Babylon (head of gold), Persia (Medo-Persia - chest of silver), Greece (Alexander's empire of bronze) and Rome (two legs of iron).

The feet of the image are "iron mixed with miry clay" (ceramic).  It clearly states that this last phase of the Roman empire will be composed of "the seed of man" mixed with "they" (non-humans).

 

And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. Daniel 2:41-43

I know some have claimed this is in reference to aliens (the UFO type) or even fallen angels. The problem is there is nothing in the passage or anywhere else in the scripture to substantiate that the iron represents aliens or fallen angels. It's strictly a private interpretation.

 

I tend to think it's a reference to the collapse of democracy where those in authority (iron) will try to mingle with the average man (the seed of men) but ultimately it will fail and become a dictatorship. Iron usually represents harsh rule like in the statement, "rule them with a rod of iron". Don't forget that each metal represents earthly authority so iron would represent some kind of earthly authority. I assume it's democracy because of the attempt to mingle with the average man and every attempt at democracy in world history has ended in dictatorship. Personally, I believe the the form of government under the Antichrist will be democratic.

[beameup]

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Mt 24:37

That the sons of God [bene Ha Elohim, ie fallen angels] saw the daughters of men [adam]
that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Gen 6:2
There were giants [nephalim, ie: hybrids] in the earth in those days;
and also after that [like Goliath], when the sons of God [bene Ha Elohim, ie: fallen angels]
came in unto the daughters of men [adam] Gen 6:4

bene ha elohim is Hebrew and refers ONLY to angels in the Old Testament!
Note also that it specifically refers to the "daughters of man" (adam in the Hebrew)
In the N.T. is simply says that angels "don't marry", it does not say they cannot have sex
(remember in Sodom the men wanted the 2 angels in Lot's home.)

[John81]

I know some have claimed this is in reference to aliens (the UFO type) or even fallen angels. The problem is there is nothing in the passage or anywhere else in the scripture to substantiate that the iron represents aliens or fallen angels. It's strictly a private interpretation.

 

I tend to think it's a reference to the collapse of democracy where those in authority (iron) will try to mingle with the average man (the seed of men) but ultimately it will fail and become a dictatorship. Iron usually represents harsh rule like in the statement, "rule them with a rod of iron". Don't forget that each metal represents earthly authority so iron would represent some kind of earthly authority. I assume it's democracy because of the attempt to mingle with the average man and every attempt at democracy in world history has ended in dictatorship. Personally, I believe the the form of government under the Antichrist will be democratic.

Midnight Call Ministries has some books which deal with the idea of democracy being the means of the anti-Christ coming to power.

[John81]

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Mt 24:37

That the sons of God [bene Ha Elohim, ie fallen angels] saw the daughters of men [adam]
that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Gen 6:2
There were giants [nephalim, ie: hybrids] in the earth in those days;
and also after that [like Goliath], when the sons of God [bene Ha Elohim, ie: fallen angels]
came in unto the daughters of men [adam] Gen 6:4

Where's Heartstrings?  

[Ukulelemike]

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Mt 24:37

That the sons of God [bene Ha Elohim, ie fallen angels] saw the daughters of men [adam]
that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Gen 6:2
There were giants [nephalim, ie: hybrids] in the earth in those days;
and also after that [like Goliath], when the sons of God [bene Ha Elohim, ie: fallen angels]
came in unto the daughters of men [adam] Gen 6:4

Every time the term is used in the New Testament, it refers to human believers. In the OT, the term  'sons of God' in only one instance specifically refers to angels, or heavenly beings. All the other times it could easily refer to humans who were believers.

 The word 'giants' is the Greek "nĕphiyl", means simply, "giants".  And when we consider that humans lived to be over 900 years old, it would makes sense that, like animals that lived longer and grew HUGE, that possibe ALL humans were, in fact, giants. Plenty of giant skeletons and bones have been found to back at least the possibility.

 

bene ha elohim simply means 'sons of God', just as ben elohim is son of God. Nothing to even imply a fallen state.

 

Jesus said the angels do not marry, nor are given in marriage. Consider that God created the angels for specific purposes, but one of them was not procreation or marriage. Even if an angel falls, they cannot alter their basic nature-they weren't made to marry or procreate. Thus it is impossible that they could interbreed with human females.

 

Simply, the account in Genesis give the story of human believers marrying unbelievers, once again breaking the doctrine of separation. 

 

Now, before you ask why their marriages produced giants, let me say, they didn't. Let's read it again, shall we?

 

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown."

 

There are two thoughts here:

 

1- the statement, "There were giants in those days".

 

2- the statement, when the sons of God and daughters of men came together, they produced children, which were mighty men of renown.

 

And between these statements is a small conjunction: "and also after that". 

 

So, these two statements are only related because they were both facts, but the one doesn't bring about the other.

 

Why they were mighty men of renown is another issue altogether. We can go ito that another time.

[JerryNumbers]

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Mt 24:37

That the sons of God [bene Ha Elohim, ie fallen angels] saw the daughters of men [adam]
that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Gen 6:2
There were giants [nephalim, ie: hybrids] in the earth in those days;
and also after that [like Goliath], when the sons of God [bene Ha Elohim, ie: fallen angels]
came in unto the daughters of men [adam] Gen 6:4

bene ha elohim is Hebrew and refers ONLY to angels in the Old Testament!
Note also that it specifically refers to the "daughters of man" (adam in the Hebrew)

 

 

You will get a big disagreement on this. I've been called many things for saying the sons of God are fallen angels. And of course that's exactly what they were.

 

With that said I can see how some can come to the conclusion that they're not fallen angels & I do not ever call them what they call me. 

[beameup]

Oiketerion (οἰκητήριον) is only used in two places in the N.T.:

For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house oiketerion which is from heaven: 2 Cor 5:2
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation oiketerion,
he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude 6

So, the "angels that sinned" left their glorified bodies
and we as believers long for our glorified bodies.

[ASongOfDegrees]

Beameup,

 

I know the sons of Gods in Genesis is a reference to angels but there is nothing in Daniel 2 that suggests that the "iron" is a reference to fallen angels. It's just not there. If you can find me a passage to cross reference Daniel 2 to then I'll except it but until that time it's strictly private interpretation.

 

Without a doubt the "iron" is a reference to the rulers of the "seed of men". This is established by the fact that the gold head is a reference to king Nebuchadnezzar. Also, as I mentioned before "iron" within scripture is symbolic of tyranny.

 

If it is somehow a reference to angels why wouldn't they be able to mingle with the seed of men if they were able to do it in Genesis 6? I will agree that the term "mingling" does suggest procreation based on Ezra 9:2.

[ASongOfDegrees]

Every time the term is used in the New Testament, it refers to human believers. In the OT, the term  'sons of God' in only one instance specifically refers to angels, or heavenly beings. All the other times it could easily refer to humans who were believers.

 The word 'giants' is the Greek "nĕphiyl", means simply, "giants".  And when we consider that humans lived to be over 900 years old, it would makes sense that, like animals that lived longer and grew HUGE, that possibe ALL humans were, in fact, giants. Plenty of giant skeletons and bones have been found to back at least the possibility.

 

bene ha elohim simply means 'sons of God', just as ben elohim is son of God. Nothing to even imply a fallen state.

 

Jesus said the angels do not marry, nor are given in marriage. Consider that God created the angels for specific purposes, but one of them was not procreation or marriage. Even if an angel falls, they cannot alter their basic nature-they weren't made to marry or procreate. Thus it is impossible that they could interbreed with human females.

 

Simply, the account in Genesis give the story of human believers marrying unbelievers, once again breaking the doctrine of separation. 

 

Now, before you ask why their marriages produced giants, let me say, they didn't. Let's read it again, shall we?

 

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown."

 

There are two thoughts here:

 

1- the statement, "There were giants in those days".

 

2- the statement, when the sons of God and daughters of men came together, they produced children, which were mighty men of renown.

 

And between these statements is a small conjunction: "and also after that". 

 

So, these two statements are only related because they were both facts, but the one doesn't bring about the other.

 

Why they were mighty men of renown is another issue altogether. We can go ito that another time.

Angels in heaven don't marry because they are all male. Every angel in the word of God is a young male.

[beameup]

Beameup,
 
I know the sons of Gods in Genesis is a reference to angels but there is nothing in Daniel 2 that suggests that the "iron" is a reference to fallen angels. It's just not there. If you can find me a passage to cross reference Daniel 2 to then I'll except it but until that time it's strictly private interpretation.
 
Without a doubt the "iron" is a reference to the rulers of the "seed of men". This is established by the fact that the gold head is a reference to king Nebuchadnezzar. Also, as I mentioned before "iron" within scripture is symbolic of tyranny.
 
If it is somehow a reference to angels why wouldn't they be able to mingle with the seed of men if they were able to do it in Genesis 6? I will agree that the term "mingling" does suggest procreation based on Ezra 9:2.

You have to carefully read the texts. The nephalem (like the mule) were not able to reproduce - they were hybrids. We are dealing with genetic manipulation in Genesis 6 and it is implied that it produced hybrids, and it is implied that this occurred in Canaan while the Jews were in Egypt (like Goliath & Ogg).

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Mt. 24:24

[Ukulelemike]

You have to carefully read the texts. The nephalem (like the mule) were not able to reproduce - they were hybrids. We are dealing with genetic manipulation in Genesis 6 and it is implied that it produced hybrids, and it is implied that this occurred in Canaan while the Jews were in Egypt (like Goliath & Ogg).

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Mt. 24:24

Fiddlesticks-where do you find any hint of genetic manipulation? Someone's imagination ran away with them and they came up with that idea. They were gianst: large humans. Period. The Bible says giants it means giants. Anything more is read into it. The fact that some giants were seen later just shows that it is in the DNA of humanity to produce such giants.

[Ukulelemike]

Angels in heaven don't marry because they are all male. Every angel in the word of God is a young male.

Because angels always appear male doe not make them male in a human sense. They are spirit, able to take form for purposes of performing their duties as messengers. That doesn't imply that they could reproduce.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Fiddlesticks-where do you find any hint of genetic manipulation? Someone's imagination ran away with them and they came up with that idea. They were gianst: large humans. Period. The Bible says giants it means giants. Anything more is read into it. The fact that some giants were seen later just shows that it is in the DNA of humanity to produce such giants.

Nephalim (giants) were not able to reproduce?  Really?  Then prey tell, how do we explain these verses?

2 Samuel 21:16 And Ishbibenob, which was of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear weighed three hundred shekels of brass in weight, he being girded with a new sword, thought to have slain David.

2 Samuel 21:18 And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant.

Sorry, Ukulele Mike, I know you didn't say the giants were not able to reproduce. 
 

[irishman]

Much of Bible typology is conjecture, we must keep this in mind.  It may not be the way our simple carnal minds understand it to be. The nations represented by the statue in Daniel may not be those we think they are, I know, some say "history bears it out", but usually there are other countries that meet the criteria too.  Just an example of how we take mans interpretations of things, and make it "Biblical".  This is especially true in Revelation, where we decide what all those things mean, and almost all disagree!