Jump to content
Online Baptist Community
  • Newest Sermon Entry

    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Pre Tribulation Rapture Of The Church


Recommended Posts

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The Greek word "dispensation" is oikonomia. It is the way God is currently managing his "household";
in this case, it is by Grace without the works of the Law... "by grace, through faith" + nothing.
During the previous oikonomia it was managed by the Law of Moses.

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 2:16
Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ,
according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Romans 16:25
To Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, was revealed the mystery which was never previously revealed.

Edited by beameup
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

The Greek word "dispensation" is oikonomia. It is the way God is currently managing his "household";
in this case, it is by Grace without the works of the Law... "by grace, through faith" + nothing.
During the previous oikonomia it was managed by the Law of Moses.

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 2:16
Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ,
according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Romans 16:25
To Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, was revealed the mystery which was never previously revealed.

 

Which is?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

If Jesus says keep the feast of tabernacles in the kingdom age or get no rain, I think it still applies.

Where in the Gospels???????????

 

And if it isn't in the Gospels, you think it doesn't apply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

The Greek word "dispensation" is oikonomia. It is the way God is currently managing his "household";
in this case, it is by Grace without the works of the Law... "by grace, through faith" + nothing.
During the previous oikonomia it was managed by the Law of Moses.

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 2:16
Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ,
according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Romans 16:25
To Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, was revealed the mystery which was never previously revealed.

 

I am sorry we go by the KJV and that says dispensation of grace, which means dispensing grace,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I am sorry we go by the KJV and that says dispensation of grace, which means dispensing grace,


The next dispensation (oikonomia) will be under the Law, but it will be for the entire world (every nation) and not just Israel.
A lot of the passages in the Gospels refer to the Millennial reign of Christ on earth (for example).

But in the last days it shall come to pass, [that] the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. Micah 4:1-3 Edited by beameup
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
Zechariah 14

1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

10All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

11And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Where in the Gospels???????????

 

And if it isn't in the Gospels, you think it doesn't apply.

Zechariah 14

1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

10All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

11And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

Jesus speaks in the whole bible not just the gospels.

 

 

 

"Where in the Gospels???????????

 

And if it isn't in the Gospels, you think it doesn't apply."        (((This question does't make any sense. What did you mean?)))


Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Eric Stahl,

If Jesus says keep the feast of tabernacles in the kingdom age or get no rain, I think it still applies.

Ian:

Where in the Gospels???????????

 

And if it isn't in the Gospels, you think it doesn't apply.

 

 

 

Zechariah 14

........

16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.


 

Eric: Jesus speaks in the whole bible not just the gospels.

 

How could I possibly disagree. However we must understand the old covenant Scriptures by the direct teaching of Jesus and his Apostles in the new covenant Scriptures.

 

And if it isn't in the Gospels, you think it doesn't apply."       

Eric:

(((This question does't make any sense. What did you mean?)))

Your original point was: "If Jesus says keep the feast of tabernacles in the kingdom age or get no rain, I think it still applies."

As Jesus did not specifically say that, the implication is that you point is invalid. However, we need to consider his teaching that we should understand as fulfilling that Scripture. The feast of tabernacles commemorated Israel's wilderness experience, during which time they lived in hope of the promised land. They must not forget all that God had done for them, once they were settled in the land.  So they came to Jerusalem, and lived in booths. 

 

When the Samaritan woman asked about worship centred on this or that mountain, he told her: 

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

  The old covenant feasts and temple centred worship would no longer apply. A Christ-centred spiritual worship and understanding is necessary. We are living in a wilderness, under our God's protection. We are strangers and pilgrims, and recognising this we do keep the feast of tabernacles in the true spiritual sense.

  

   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Eric: Jesus speaks in the whole bible not just the gospels.

 

How could I possibly disagree. However we must understand the old covenant Scriptures by the direct teaching of Jesus and his Apostles in the new covenant Scriptures.

 

And if it isn't in the Gospels, you think it doesn't apply."       

Eric:

(((This question does't make any sense. What did you mean?)))

Your original point was: "If Jesus says keep the feast of tabernacles in the kingdom age or get no rain, I think it still applies."

As Jesus did not specifically say that, the implication is that you point is invalid. However, we need to consider his teaching that we should understand as fulfilling that Scripture. The feast of tabernacles commemorated Israel's wilderness experience, during which time they lived in hope of the promised land. They must not forget all that God had done for them, once they were settled in the land.  So they came to Jerusalem, and lived in booths. 

 

When the Samaritan woman asked about worship centred on this or that mountain, he told her: 

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

  The old covenant feasts and temple centred worship would no longer apply. A Christ-centred spiritual worship and understanding is necessary. We are living in a wilderness, under our God's protection. We are strangers and pilgrims, and recognising this we do keep the feast of tabernacles in the true spiritual sense.

  

   

I agree with this last statement. In fact, my lesson just last night was from this very scripture. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must do so in spirit and in truth-we no longer need a specific place of worship in order to worship properly.

 

However, that being said, just as Jesus' death, burial and resurrection made this possible, His return to earth in the flesh as ruling King of kings and Lord of lords, and His taking the throne, (not necessarily in a 'temple', as the temple worship ended upon His death), in Jerusalem, which I believe will all literally take place, will again place the center of worship in Jerusalem, not in a temple, but at the very throne of God the Son. Today we worship in spirit, because God is Spirit-then we will worship, I believe, both, in spirit and truth AND, at times, in Jerusalem, because God in the flesh will be here. So to say that we may need to keep a particular feast, perhaps now with a new meaning attached to it, such as freedom from bongade to sin, would not be odd. Why would not the whole world, or at least, representatives of it, not be required to present themselves before Jesus Christ, if He is ruling in the flesh on earth?  And why would they not be punished for rebelling and refusing to do so? He is God-He has a right to be worshiped and recognized by ALL for who He is, particularly then, when faith will be made sight?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

The next dispensation (oikonomia) will be under the Law, but it will be for the entire world (every nation) and not just Israel.
A lot of the passages in the Gospels refer to the Millennial reign of Christ on earth (for example).

But in the last days it shall come to pass, [that] the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. Micah 4:1-3

 

 

 

3 Mt 11:13  For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Edited by Invicta
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

3 Mt 11:13  For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

John the Baptizer was the last Old Testament prophet, and he preached: repent and be baptized for the Kingdom of God is at hand.

This is in contrast to the Gospel of Grace revealed to Paul wherein: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

 

Jesus only spoke the words that the Father gave him to speak:  

Jn 14:10b (for example) the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

 

The Kingdom of God was truly "at hand", but even after 30+ years the nation of Israel still failed to turn to their Messiah and the Temple was destroyed.

So, we are living in a parenthesis, a hiatus, and awaiting the fulfillment of the ancient prophecies concerning Israel (genetic Jews) and the Messianic reign. 

 

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:  Eph 3:3,5,6

The mystery was revealed to Paul.  It is not found in the O.T. or the Gospels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

John the Baptizer was the last Old Testament prophet, and he preached: repent and be baptized for the Kingdom of God is at hand. It was Jesus that said that.

This is in contrast to the Gospel of Grace revealed to Paul wherein: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

 

Jesus only spoke the words that the Father gave him to speak:  

Jn 14:10b (for example) the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

 

The Kingdom of God was truly "at hand", but even after 30+ years the nation of Israel still failed to turn to their Messiah and the Temple was destroyed.

So, we are living in a parenthesis, a hiatus, and awaiting the fulfillment of the ancient prophecies concerning Israel (genetic Jews) and the Messianic reign. 

 

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:  Eph 3:3,5,6

The mystery was revealed to Paul.  It is not found in the O.T. or the Gospels.

 

 

Well, I agree with you to a point.  John baptised Jesus and said:

John 1:29  The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 1:36  And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
 
John called people to repent. But John thought Jesus had come to set up an earthly kingdom, so later had doubts and said:
 
2  Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
3  And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
4  Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
5  The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
6  And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
7 ¶  And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8  But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses.
9  But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10  For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11  Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12  And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
13  For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14  And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15  He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 years later...
  • Members

This is my understanding and it is also thought in the early Church fathers (no, they were not Catholic at least until ca 4th century) like Tertulian (later fathers I reject and I do believe this to be a Baptist thinking).

When we see references to Noe, Lot and Rehab we see that the LORD has always delivered His people and then brought the judgement upon the ungodly. Also Apostle Paul told us that we have passed from the wrath of God and also Jesus is telling the Philadelphian Church that because she has keept the Word she shal be saved from the hour of temptation that will come upon the whole world. So this are clear teaching of the pre-19th century pre-trib Rapture.

Also I've seen an intereting video where the presentator quotes from the Catholic cathecism which says that the church (in their opinion) has to go trought the tribulation so her faith will be tested. Why would her faith be tested if we are saved by God's grace trough faith and not by our own efforts?! Also the presentator says it nicely: think about it if there is post trib Rapture what will you be doing: building a bunker in the mountains or preach the gospel? Now ask yourself this same for the pre-trib: there is no need for a bunker so your time can be spent on preaching.

About saints going trough tribulation already: true, millions have suffered and are suffering but the Bble speakins about THE Tribulation, not local tribulations. Think about that and may the LORD give us all one perfect understanding.

 

Blessings

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
On 10/12/2017 at 3:18 PM, Uroš Pristavec-mavrič said:

This is my understanding and it is also thought in the early Church fathers (no, they were not Catholic at least until ca 4th century) like Tertulian (later fathers I reject and I do believe this to be a Baptist thinking).

When we see references to Noe, Lot and Rehab we see that the LORD has always delivered His people and then brought the judgement upon the ungodly. Also Apostle Paul told us that we have passed from the wrath of God and also Jesus is telling the Philadelphian Church that because she has keept the Word she shal be saved from the hour of temptation that will come upon the whole world. So this are clear teaching of the pre-19th century pre-trib Rapture.

Also I've seen an intereting video where the presentator quotes from the Catholic cathecism which says that the church (in their opinion) has to go trought the tribulation so her faith will be tested. Why would her faith be tested if we are saved by God's grace trough faith and not by our own efforts?! Also the presentator says it nicely: think about it if there is post trib Rapture what will you be doing: building a bunker in the mountains or preach the gospel? Now ask yourself this same for the pre-trib: there is no need for a bunker so your time can be spent on preaching.

About saints going trough tribulation already: true, millions have suffered and are suffering but the Bble speakins about THE Tribulation, not local tribulations. Think about that and may the LORD give us all one perfect understanding.

 

Blessings

God told Agabus to warn the church that a famine was coming so they could prepare. We need to prepare for the sorrows before the tribulation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Who's Online   2 Members, 0 Anonymous, 6 Guests (See full list)

  • Recent Achievements

    • Mark C earned a badge
      First Post
    • Razor went up a rank
      Collaborator
    • Mark C earned a badge
      Conversation Starter
    • KJV1611BELIEVER earned a badge
      First Post
    • KJV1611BELIEVER earned a badge
      One Month Later
  • Tell a friend

    Love Online Baptist Community? Tell a friend!
  • Members

  • Popular Now

  • Recent Status Updates

    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 0 replies
    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 1 reply
    • Razor

      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
      Peter could have had a ham sandwich in Acts 2, but he did not know it till later, by revelation. But this has nothing to do with 1John 2;23 and those 10 added words in italics. Where did they get them? Did the violate Pro. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Where did they get this advance revelation? Was it from man, God or the devil?
        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
      BUT THE LAW OF MOSES DID DEMAND MY LIFE
      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
      BUT A DREAM HE RECEIVED ENDED ALL FEARS
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
      BUT HEROD THAT DEVIL SOUGHT FOR HIS SOUL
      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
  • Topics

×
×
  • Create New...