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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Pre Tribulation Rapture Of The Church


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Mike,

 

Revelation 19

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

 

Mike the city can't put on white linen. The city is not righteous.

 

Pray for God to give you a proper understanding.

 

John was shown the lamb's wife and the city. It is important that you understand this, you are important because you are now a moderator and represent us.

No, you misunderstand what I am saying: the white linen, indeed, represents the righteousness of the saints, which they are wearing.

 

We are not righteous of ourselves-we receive that from God and the Lamb, who will dwell in the city. He is the righteousness of the saints, Where the Lord dwells, righteousness dwells.  And since the Father and the Lamb are the light of the city, and the new earth, so His righteousness is the righteousness of the New Jerusalem. She is adorned in the righteousness of the Lamb, her Husband.

 

After some consideration, allow me to tweak what I have said just a bit.

 

The New Jerusalem is the bride, as Old Jerulsaem/Israel was the wife. Meaning, old Israel, nationally, was the husband of God-what is Israel? Was the Lord married to the land? Obviously not, but the the people who made the land what it was. It was Israel, but not the place, but the people. They made up the land.

 

So the New Jerusalem is the bride of the Lamb in the same way: the righteousness is the righteousness of the saints, who will make up the city-they wll dwell in righteousness in the city. So, yes its the saints, but the saints make up the city.

 

In the OT, the Lord always referred to His people as 'Israel" or 'Jacob'. So in that time to come, it will be the New Jerusalem, made up of the people, the saints. But is it just the church? No, I believe it will be the saints of all time. Wil Abraham, Isaac and Jacob not be part of the bride, because they lived prior to the church? I don't think so. 

 

Does this make more sense?

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No, you misunderstand what I am saying: the white linen, indeed, represents the righteousness of the saints, which they are wearing.

 

We are not righteous of ourselves-we receive that from God and the Lamb, who will dwell in the city. He is the righteousness of the saints, Where the Lord dwells, righteousness dwells.  And since the Father and the Lamb are the light of the city, and the new earth, so His righteousness is the righteousness of the New Jerusalem. She is adorned in the righteousness of the Lamb, her Husband.

 

After some consideration, allow me to tweak what I have said just a bit.

 

The New Jerusalem is the bride, as Old Jerulsaem/Israel was the wife. Meaning, old Israel, nationally, was the husband of God-what is Israel? Was the Lord married to the land? Obviously not, but the the people who made the land what it was. It was Israel, but not the place, but the people. They made up the land.

 

So the New Jerusalem is the bride of the Lamb in the same way: the righteousness is the righteousness of the saints, who will make up the city-they wll dwell in righteousness in the city. So, yes its the saints, but the saints make up the city.

 

In the OT, the Lord always referred to His people as 'Israel" or 'Jacob'. So in that time to come, it will be the New Jerusalem, made up of the people, the saints. But is it just the church? No, I believe it will be the saints of all time. Wil Abraham, Isaac and Jacob not be part of the bride, because they lived prior to the church? I don't think so. 

 

Does this make more sense?

Yes. I agree that the saints of all time will be the bride in the New Jerusalem and the surviving Jews who live in the kingdom will be in the rebuilt Old Jerusalem.

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Mike - unless I am seriously misunderstanding what you are saying - I agree with you !

 

But not with Eric. I do not see any place in the NH&NE for the old Jerusalem.

 

The redeemed are one people of God in Christ, resurrected saints living with Christ in glory.

 

 

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No, you misunderstand what I am saying: the white linen, indeed, represents the righteousness of the saints, which they are wearing.

 

We are not righteous of ourselves-we receive that from God and the Lamb, who will dwell in the city. He is the righteousness of the saints, Where the Lord dwells, righteousness dwells.  And since the Father and the Lamb are the light of the city, and the new earth, so His righteousness is the righteousness of the New Jerusalem. She is adorned in the righteousness of the Lamb, her Husband.

 

After some consideration, allow me to tweak what I have said just a bit.

 

The New Jerusalem is the bride, as Old Jerulsaem/Israel was the wife. Meaning, old Israel, nationally, was the husband of God-what is Israel? Was the Lord married to the land? Obviously not, but the the people who made the land what it was. It was Israel, but not the place, but the people. They made up the land.

 

So the New Jerusalem is the bride of the Lamb in the same way: the righteousness is the righteousness of the saints, who will make up the city-they wll dwell in righteousness in the city. So, yes its the saints, but the saints make up the city.

 

In the OT, the Lord always referred to His people as 'Israel" or 'Jacob'. So in that time to come, it will be the New Jerusalem, made up of the people, the saints. But is it just the church? No, I believe it will be the saints of all time. Wil Abraham, Isaac and Jacob not be part of the bride, because they lived prior to the church? I don't think so. 

 

Does this make more sense?

 

Yes, I agree with that.

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Mike - unless I am seriously misunderstanding what you are saying - I agree with you !

 

But not with Eric. I do not see any place in the NH&NE for the old Jerusalem.

 

The redeemed are one people of God in Christ, resurrected saints living with Christ in glory.

Haggai 2

 

Haggai 2:1-9

1In the seventh month, in the one and twentieth day of the month, came the word of the LORD by the prophet Haggai, saying,

2Speak now to Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, and to the residue of the people, saying,

3Who is left among you that saw this house(((Solomens))) in her first glory? and how do ye see it(((2nd temple))) now? is it not in your eyes in comparison of it as nothing?

4Yet now be strong, O Zerubbabel, saith the LORD; and be strong, O Joshua, son of Josedech, the high priest; and be strong, all ye people of the land, saith the LORD, and work: for I am with you, saith the LORD of hosts:

5According to the word that I covenanted with you when ye came out of Egypt, so my spirit remaineth among you: fear ye not.

6For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;

7And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house(((Kingdom temple on earth))) with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.

8The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts.

9The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.

Edited by Eric Stahl
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Rev 6:12-17

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

Rev 14:17-15:1

And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand [and] six hundred furlongs.

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

 

These are the two places the wrath of God is found.

 

As I understand this, the seals are essentially previews of the entire tribulation period, with the wrath being poured out last. The seals seem to encompass various things that we read of later occurring during the tribulation: the coming of the antichrist, and following him war, pestilence and death. we see those killed for the testimony of the Lord, which would correlate with the killing of the 144,000, as well as other martyrs during the tribulation, earthquakes, as the great one in Jerusalem preceding the resurrection of the two wtinesses, stars faling from heaven, and so forth. This is finally completed by the wrath of the Lamb, which, as we see above, occurs after the reaping by the Son of man in the clouds. Which, as everyone knows, can't possibly be the rapture. Yes, being sarcastic-sorry. Its early.

The sixth seal of Rev. 6 and the last two plagues along with the last two woes and the seventh trumpet occur at the same time ending with a great earthquake, shaking of the heavens and the wrath of the Lamb. The previous five seals begin at the midway point of the tribulation when the conqueror on the white horse is revealed. John is essentially recording the Second Coming four times in Revelation just as we have four records of the first coming . This would account for the various judgments i.e seal, vial, trumpet and woe. The reaping of the earth is a rapture but it is a rapture of the tribulation saints (Isaiah 26:17-21) left behind after the man child (i.e. the 144,000 and the two slain witnesses) of Rev. 12. is taken up 3 1/2 years earlier. The rest of the tribulation saints (the woman who flees into the desert) have to endure unto the end of the tribulation for 3 1/2 years.

 

It's possible that the NT church in this age will see the rise of the Antichrist. If this is the case then the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's last week may have occurred during Christ's ministry.

Edited by ASongOfDegrees
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Haggai 2

 

Haggai 2:1-9

1In the seventh month, in the one and twentieth day of the month, came the word of the LORD by the prophet Haggai, saying,

2Speak now to Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, and to the residue of the people, saying,

3Who is left among you that saw this house(((Solomens))) in her first glory? and how do ye see it(((2nd temple))) now? is it not in your eyes in comparison of it as nothing?

4Yet now be strong, O Zerubbabel, saith the LORD; and be strong, O Joshua, son of Josedech, the high priest; and be strong, all ye people of the land, saith the LORD, and work: for I am with you, saith the LORD of hosts:

5According to the word that I covenanted with you when ye came out of Egypt, so my spirit remaineth among you: fear ye not.

6For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;

7And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house(((Kingdom temple on earth))) with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.

8The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts.

9The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.

The New Covenant temple is the redeemed people of God - built with living stones. There will NEVER be another stone temple. The viel was rent from top to bottom.

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The sixth seal of Rev. 6 and the last two plagues along with the last two woes and the seventh trumpet occur at the same time ending with a great earthquake, shaking of the heavens and the wrath of the Lamb. The previous five seals begin at the midway point of the tribulation when the conqueror on the white horse is revealed. John is essentially recording the Second Coming four times in Revelation just as we have four records of the first coming . This would account for the various judgments i.e seal, vial, trumpet and woe. The reaping of the earth is a rapture but it is a rapture of the tribulation saints (Isaiah 26:17-21) left behind after the man child (i.e. the 144,000 and the two slain witnesses) of Rev. 12. is taken up 3 1/2 years earlier. The rest of the tribulation saints (the woman who flees into the desert) have to endure unto the end of the tribulation for 3 1/2 years.

 

It's possible that the NT church in this age will see the rise of the Antichrist. If this is the case then the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's last week may have occurred during Christ's ministry.

 

ASongOfDegrees,

 

This is what you are seeing.

 

Five Phases of the First Resurrection

 

The Five Phases of the First Resurrection
 

(1) Jesus took the Old Testament saints to Heaven at His ascension. Psalms 68:18KJV, Ephesians 4:8KJV
 

(2) The Holy Spirit and the church age saints are caught up to heaven before the antichrist is given power in the Christian nations. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12KJV, and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17KJV also see John16:7-8KJV the Comforter in the church will reprove sin.
 

(3) The mid tribulation catching up will include the two witnesses Revelation11:3, 7-14KJV, the 144,000 sealed Jews from Revelation chapter 7KJV who where redeemed from the earth. See Revelation 14:1-4KJV, and the redeemed dead saints from the first half of the Tribulation. See Revelation 15:1-4KJV
 

(4) The dead saints from the last half of the tribulation are redeemed from the earth after the tribulation. Revelation 20:4KJV
 

(5) The dead saints from the Kingdom age will be judged at the great white throne judgment along with the second resurrection sinners. Revelation 20:11-15KJV

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The New Covenant temple is the redeemed people of God - built with living stones. There will NEVER be another stone temple. The viel was rent from top to bottom.

 

Covenanter,

 

If you always spiritualize the bible passages, you will never understand it correctly.

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Ian:

The New Covenant temple is the redeemed people of God - built with living stones. There will NEVER be another stone temple. The viel was rent from top to bottom.

Covenanter,

 

If you always spiritualize the bible passages, you will never understand it correctly.

 

Eric:

I  love to learn somthing new.

 

If you were to read the Gospels & letters of the Apostles, you would learn how to understand prophecy.

 

In this instance, concerning the NC temple:

 

John 2:17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

 

4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

2 Cor. 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

Eph. 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

1 Peter 2:To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

 

Rev. 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

 

The NT Scriptures interpret the OT as FULFILLED by the LORD Jesus Christ. Your teaching is a violation of the Prophetic Word. Study the NT to see how OT prophecy was & is fulfilled.

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Five phases of the FIRST resurrection?

 

If Christ were ruling from Jerusalem during a thousand years, why would there need to be a temple complete with animal sacrifices and such? Did not Christ come to fulfill the Old Covenant and establish the New Covenant?

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Five phases of the FIRST resurrection?

 

If Christ were ruling from Jerusalem during a thousand years, why would there need to be a temple complete with animal sacrifices and such? Did not Christ come to fulfill the Old Covenant and establish the New Covenant?

Not sure about five phases but possibly there are three. Just like there are three "phases" of a harvest in the OT: first fruits, main harvest and gleanings:there may be three phases of the first resurrection (Exodus 23:16,17).

 

I've also ask myself about the rebuilding of the temple and reinstitution of the animal sacrifices. It seems to be there though. The sacrifices of Ezekiel 44,45 take place under "David the prince".

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Keep in mind that if the sacrifices are restarted, it doesn't mean that God requires it, just that it happens.
There are many Jews who still regard the sacrifices as essential and would reinstate them tomorrow if the temple was there. But God doesn't require it. Doesn't mean they won't do it.

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Five phases of the FIRST resurrection?

 

If Christ were ruling from Jerusalem during a thousand years, why would there need to be a temple complete with animal sacrifices and such? Did not Christ come to fulfill the Old Covenant and establish the New Covenant?

Jesus makes it clear in John 5 that conversion is a resurrection that protects from condemnation - the second death.

 

John see the SOULS of the martyrs enjoying the first resurrection. It's not a bodily resurrection. We can't think of it in phases - it's continuous while sinners respond to the Gospel.

 

Agreed. Animal sacrifices can have no place under the NC. Ezekiel was prophesying regarding the rebuilding after the Babylon  captivity. It is an idealised vision, for God was working, and the temple was being rebuilt for Messiah. Do we look on the outward appearance? or the heart? Did Jesus love ME and give himself for ME because of the qualities people can see in me? No, but IN CHRIST I am a glorious new creation!

 

 

Song:

Not sure about five phases but possibly there are three. Just like there are three "phases" of a harvest in the OT: first fruits, main harvest and gleanings:there may be three phases of the first resurrection (Exodus 23:16,17).

 

I've also ask myself about the rebuilding of the temple and reinstitution of the animal sacrifices. It seems to be there though. The sacrifices of Ezekiel 44,45 take place under "David the prince".

 

 

Dave:

Keep in mind that if the sacrifices are restarted, it doesn't mean that God requires it, just that it happens.
There are many Jews who still regard the sacrifices as essential and would reinstate them tomorrow if the temple was there. But God doesn't require it. Doesn't mean they won't do it.

 

If the Jews (supported or not by Christian Zionists) rebuild a temple & start sacrifices again it will be a gross affront to the Messiah.

 

What does FINISHED mean?

 

Heb. 10:For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

 

Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

We must understand the OT & OT prophecy by its NT fulfilment.

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But prophecy did not only record what pleased God. It also recorded things that were to happen that didn't please God but were going to happen anyway.

That was my only point. It is not valid to say the temple won't be rebuilt because God doesn't require the sacrifices any more.
God doesn't require the sacrifices any more but that doesn't mean men won't do them.....

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Keep in mind that if the sacrifices are restarted, it doesn't mean that God requires it, just that it happens.
There are many Jews who still regard the sacrifices as essential and would reinstate them tomorrow if the temple was there. But God doesn't require it. Doesn't mean they won't do it.

That might fit if the Jews did this prior to the return of Christ, but to claim that Christ will establish a thousand year reign on earth, where He will rule with a rod of iron, and yet allow the Jews to build a temple and offer sacrifices during this time doesn't fit at all.

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But prophecy did not only record what pleased God. It also recorded things that were to happen that didn't please God but were going to happen anyway.

That was my only point. It is not valid to say the temple won't be rebuilt because God doesn't require the sacrifices any more.
God doesn't require the sacrifices any more but that doesn't mean men won't do them.....

I agree - they are capable of rebuilding the temple & restarting sacrifices. BUT they would have no value and would not conform to Ezekiel's prophecy. That prophecy was a vision of a glorious temple, not one to be built in rebellion. And sacrifices for sin were commanded.

 

45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

18 Thus saith the Lord God; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary:

19 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court.

20 And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erreth, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house.

21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

22 And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering.

23 And seven days of the feast he shall prepare a burnt offering to the Lord, seven bullocks and seven rams without blemish daily the seven days; and a kid of the goats daily for a sin offering.

 

As Hebrews puts it:

9:The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

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      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
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