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Pre Tribulation Rapture Of The Church


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Ian:

The New Covenant temple is the redeemed people of God - built with living stones. There will NEVER be another stone temple. The viel was rent from top to bottom.

Covenanter,

 

If you always spiritualize the bible passages, you will never understand it correctly.

 

Eric:

I  love to learn somthing new.

 

If you were to read the Gospels & letters of the Apostles, you would learn how to understand prophecy.

 

In this instance, concerning the NC temple:

 

John 2:17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

 

4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

2 Cor. 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

Eph. 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

1 Peter 2:To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

 

Rev. 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

 

The NT Scriptures interpret the OT as FULFILLED by the LORD Jesus Christ. Your teaching is a violation of the Prophetic Word. Study the NT to see how OT prophecy was & is fulfilled.

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Five phases of the FIRST resurrection?

 

If Christ were ruling from Jerusalem during a thousand years, why would there need to be a temple complete with animal sacrifices and such? Did not Christ come to fulfill the Old Covenant and establish the New Covenant?

Not sure about five phases but possibly there are three. Just like there are three "phases" of a harvest in the OT: first fruits, main harvest and gleanings:there may be three phases of the first resurrection (Exodus 23:16,17).

 

I've also ask myself about the rebuilding of the temple and reinstitution of the animal sacrifices. It seems to be there though. The sacrifices of Ezekiel 44,45 take place under "David the prince".

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Keep in mind that if the sacrifices are restarted, it doesn't mean that God requires it, just that it happens.
There are many Jews who still regard the sacrifices as essential and would reinstate them tomorrow if the temple was there. But God doesn't require it. Doesn't mean they won't do it.

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Five phases of the FIRST resurrection?

 

If Christ were ruling from Jerusalem during a thousand years, why would there need to be a temple complete with animal sacrifices and such? Did not Christ come to fulfill the Old Covenant and establish the New Covenant?

Jesus makes it clear in John 5 that conversion is a resurrection that protects from condemnation - the second death.

 

John see the SOULS of the martyrs enjoying the first resurrection. It's not a bodily resurrection. We can't think of it in phases - it's continuous while sinners respond to the Gospel.

 

Agreed. Animal sacrifices can have no place under the NC. Ezekiel was prophesying regarding the rebuilding after the Babylon  captivity. It is an idealised vision, for God was working, and the temple was being rebuilt for Messiah. Do we look on the outward appearance? or the heart? Did Jesus love ME and give himself for ME because of the qualities people can see in me? No, but IN CHRIST I am a glorious new creation!

 

 

Song:

Not sure about five phases but possibly there are three. Just like there are three "phases" of a harvest in the OT: first fruits, main harvest and gleanings:there may be three phases of the first resurrection (Exodus 23:16,17).

 

I've also ask myself about the rebuilding of the temple and reinstitution of the animal sacrifices. It seems to be there though. The sacrifices of Ezekiel 44,45 take place under "David the prince".

 

 

Dave:

Keep in mind that if the sacrifices are restarted, it doesn't mean that God requires it, just that it happens.
There are many Jews who still regard the sacrifices as essential and would reinstate them tomorrow if the temple was there. But God doesn't require it. Doesn't mean they won't do it.

 

If the Jews (supported or not by Christian Zionists) rebuild a temple & start sacrifices again it will be a gross affront to the Messiah.

 

What does FINISHED mean?

 

Heb. 10:For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

 

Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

We must understand the OT & OT prophecy by its NT fulfilment.

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But prophecy did not only record what pleased God. It also recorded things that were to happen that didn't please God but were going to happen anyway.

That was my only point. It is not valid to say the temple won't be rebuilt because God doesn't require the sacrifices any more.
God doesn't require the sacrifices any more but that doesn't mean men won't do them.....

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Keep in mind that if the sacrifices are restarted, it doesn't mean that God requires it, just that it happens.
There are many Jews who still regard the sacrifices as essential and would reinstate them tomorrow if the temple was there. But God doesn't require it. Doesn't mean they won't do it.

That might fit if the Jews did this prior to the return of Christ, but to claim that Christ will establish a thousand year reign on earth, where He will rule with a rod of iron, and yet allow the Jews to build a temple and offer sacrifices during this time doesn't fit at all.

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But prophecy did not only record what pleased God. It also recorded things that were to happen that didn't please God but were going to happen anyway.

That was my only point. It is not valid to say the temple won't be rebuilt because God doesn't require the sacrifices any more.
God doesn't require the sacrifices any more but that doesn't mean men won't do them.....

I agree - they are capable of rebuilding the temple & restarting sacrifices. BUT they would have no value and would not conform to Ezekiel's prophecy. That prophecy was a vision of a glorious temple, not one to be built in rebellion. And sacrifices for sin were commanded.

 

45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

18 Thus saith the Lord God; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary:

19 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court.

20 And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erreth, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house.

21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

22 And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering.

23 And seven days of the feast he shall prepare a burnt offering to the Lord, seven bullocks and seven rams without blemish daily the seven days; and a kid of the goats daily for a sin offering.

 

As Hebrews puts it:

9:The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

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Honestly, I don't see a problem with there being a milennial temple-instead of sacrifices and the ark, there would instead be the Lamb of God, alive, in the temple. The temple doesn't necessarily have to be a place of sacrifice-it was the house of God, and the presence of God dwelt there-so if Jesus is ruling on earth, there is no reason He should not have a pure, unpolluted temple, a house of His own, as it were.

 

We ARE told the people of the earth will celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles in Jerusalem when Christ rules, so it would make sense that there would be a temple about which to gather, the dwelling place of God. This time to remember our redemption, not from bondage in Egypt, but from bondage to sin and death. Or, I supose, since it will be those still in the flesh during that time, perhaps it will be to remember how the Lord has cast Satan and his influence away, and their freedom from the bondage of imperfect human systems? Not sure, obviously, but it does say we will.

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Honestly, I don't see a problem with there being a milennial temple-instead of sacrifices and the ark, there would instead be the Lamb of God, alive, in the temple. The temple doesn't necessarily have to be a place of sacrifice-it was the house of God, and the presence of God dwelt there-so if Jesus is ruling on earth, there is no reason He should not have a pure, unpolluted temple, a house of His own, as it were.

 

We ARE told the people of the earth will celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles in Jerusalem when Christ rules, so it would make sense that there would be a temple about which to gather, the dwelling place of God. This time to remember our redemption, not from bondage in Egypt, but from bondage to sin and death. Or, I supose, since it will be those still in the flesh during that time, perhaps it will be to remember how the Lord has cast Satan and his influence away, and their freedom from the bondage of imperfect human systems? Not sure, obviously, but it does say we will.

I could see something along those lines, but there are many who site Scripture which they state emphatically says the temple will be rebuilt and OT sacrifices restored during the thousand years. That's what I don't see as fitting in at all with Christ being present, the OT having been fulfilled, and no more sacrifices necessary.

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Haggai 2
 
Haggai 2:1-9
1In the seventh month, in the one and twentieth day of the month, came the word of the LORD by the prophet Haggai, saying,
2Speak now to Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, and to the residue of the people, saying,
3Who is left among you that saw this house(((Solomens))) in her first glory? and how do ye see it(((2nd temple))) now? is it not in your eyes in comparison of it as nothing?
4Yet now be strong, O Zerubbabel, saith the LORD; and be strong, O Joshua, son of Josedech, the high priest; and be strong, all ye people of the land, saith the LORD, and work: for I am with you, saith the LORD of hosts:
5According to the word that I covenanted with you when ye came out of Egypt, so my spirit remaineth among you: fear ye not.
6For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;
7And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house(((Kingdom temple on earth))) with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.
8The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts.
9The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.


This is a description of the Third Temple, the Temple that will built just prior to Jesus' Second Coming.
The Second Temple was completely destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans, and there has been no temple since.
Edited by beameup
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This is a description of the Third Temple, the Temple that will built just prior to Jesus' Second Coming.
The Second Temple was completely destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans, and there has been no temple since.

Yes, and here's a passage where everyone during the millennium will have to observe the feast of tabernacles.

 

Zechariah 14

 

[16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[17] And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
[18] And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[19] This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

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