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New Here And Certainly A Christian Catholic


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Being Catholic, I'll likely be banned, but that's ok.  We welcome ALL to our forums, because we believe in Love your neighbor.

Anyway, I am originally from a Catholic area, and moved to the southern states a few years ago where everyone is Baptist.  Everyone and their brother are "preachers".  Most are arrogant, shove it in your face and certainly don't preach love by any means.

Why is this?  The Catholic Church was the first church, then the protest (ant) people protested and didn't like many things, so they broke off.  They they protest (ed) more and broke away more. This continued to this day and age and so now we have many denominations of protest (ants).  Doesn't this bother you?

The Catholic Church remains the one, true Church that Jesus established in the beginning.  The CC doesn't bend to the willi wants of society.  They stick to the rules.

We go to Mass, are taught according to scripture and every CC in the world gets the same message.  Thankfully we don't have to sit and listen to a "preacher" preaching whatever hate is on his mind for the week.  Our Mass is very holy, not a CARNIVAL atmosphere.

Our priests have more education than Doctors, unlike the preacher whom went to school for a couple of weeks.

We do not worship idols, Mary or any other object as you seem to suggest.  Yes, we have statues, but we don't worship them as you are taught.  Do you all have a picture of family in your wallet to remind you of what is important to you? Do you worship that picture in your wallet.  Not too likely.  Same thing as a picture of Mary in mine.  Just to remind me, I do not worship it.

 

How do I know this?  I used to be a Baptist, until I came to the truth.

I feel sorry for your misguided ways.  The CC is a world wide church with, yes, a series of heads in Rome. God is above all, of course.  Where is the head of your Church?  Down the block?

We don't just stand up and say SAVE  ME.  We must live the life of Christ, aways.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

We are happy for anyone to come here and ask and learn and discuss, but the tone of your post is hardly "love thy neighbour".

As to the content, your history is certainly catholic, and by that I mean wrong.
It is what the catholic church teaches about history, but since Jesus started His church, and the Catholic church.didn't start until about 300years later with Constantine, then the Catholic.church can't be the first church can it.

Anyway, with your tone and attitude, I think you are right about one thing - you will find yourself ejected - not because you are catholic, but because you are confrontationally attacking in your tone.

If you want to hang around, back off a little and try to be nice.

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Welcome Humble Catholic! I certainly am not one who will make you feel uncomfortable and I yet to have a negative encounter on this forum. Trust me when I tell you because my background is Mormon! If anyone is a target on a forum that would be me :) Sure it can be a bit in your face and sometimes you are going to read things you don't want to hear. Sometimes we can openly resist to that which is true simply because we so badly want to be right.

 

You can't take everything to heart. Each person here has their strong beliefs and want to share it with whomever will listen... as I'm sure you too have a similar goal. I hope you stay here and get to know each of us. I'm somewhat new here as well and have felt very welcome by all. 

 

Your defensive tone tells me that you have a story behind your Baptist history. Care to share? I think there is far more behind your issue with the Baptist then just finding them to be "...arrogant, shove it in your face..." group of people.

 

I've learned throughout my life that when I hear the truth... the word of G_d it's not always going to be rosy with sunflowers swaying in the wind. No, it's going to at times sting... hurt... and even at times make me want to turn away and run. 

 

I welcome you and hope that you find what you are looking for in your desire to participating in this forum. 

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Howdy.

 

Interesting statement that the RCC doesn't bend to the will of society considering that my father-in-law was excommunicated in the 1960's for having a vasectomy and was re-instated in the 1990's since, as the Monsignor said, "...the church has modified it's views on birth control.".

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Quote: "We do not worship idols, Mary or any other object as you seem to suggest.  Yes, we have statues, but we don't worship them as you are taught.  Do you all have a picture of family in your wallet to remind you of what is important to you? Do you worship that picture in your wallet.  Not too likely.  Same thing as a picture of Mary in mine.  Just to remind me, I do not worship it".(end Quote)

 

I beg your pardon, but what do the words "Hail Mary" mean? And Who is our intercessor?   I will not contend with you over this just now, but neither will I turn away from Bible truth.  You see, I was brought up catholic; made my first communion, took catechism classes, went to confession every week, and the whole nine yards.  Even "confirmation", and all I learned was about God, but not about salvation.

 

Welcome to the forum, but be aware that we "in your face" Baptists are not willing to compromise our beliefs for the sake of "getting along".

Edited by irishman
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Welcome to the forum. I hope, as do most of us on this forum, that you will take the Bible and consider everything that is said to you. If you aren't willing to consider what we say, expect the same in return. Don't take your church's word for it, and I, for one, won't take my church's word for it. Let the Bible reign supreme as the Word of God. and when you truely believe the Word of God then, and only then, we will have comon ground. I hope you find this site very educational.

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Humble Catholic...

 

I urge you to consider this.  This is what your "Church" says about Mary:

 

Mary was taken, body and soul, into heaven (Catechism 974). This is the dogma of the “Assumption of Mary,” declared in the year 1950! In heaven, Mary supposedly intercedes for the church as advocate, helper, benefactress, and mediatrix" (Catechism 969). She is made virtually a co-savior with her Son (Catechism 968). Recently, an increasing number of prominent Catholics have petitioned the church to officially declare that Mary can provide forgiveness of sins!

 

This is what GOD says about it..

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
    —1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV)

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Just because someone agrees with you does not mean they love you. We believe in love to, & we have enough love for you that we want you to know the truth. We love you so much we don't want to lose you to the old Devil. 
 
And, it is the truth that will make you free, God's truth.
 
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
 
The truth about God is found only in one place, & that's the pages of Holy Bible. The Holy Bible is  is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

When you add mans word to the Bible, you know longer have God's truths.

 

 

Re 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Re 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
 
De 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
 
De 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it
 
Pr 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
 
And as you can see man is not to take away from nor add to God's Word, God's Word is within the Bible, when man adds to or takes away from it, it is no longer God's Word.
 
There's one & only one way to be saved according to God unadulterated truth.
 
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
 
And that path only goes though Jesus Christ, the One who paid our sin debt on that old tree.
 
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
 
The only sinless human that has ever lived, the perfect sacrifice, the perfect Savior, & God loved us so much that he gave His only begotten Son so that we would not perish.
 
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
 
We either believe on Christ & have everlasting life, or believe not on Him & we shall not see life but the wrath of God.
 
Our choice, are you going to listen to man, or listen to God?
 
 
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Howdy.

 

Interesting statement that the RCC doesn't bend to the will of society considering that my father-in-law was excommunicated in the 1960's for having a vasectomy and was re-instated in the 1990's since, as the Monsignor said, "...the church has modified it's views on birth control.".

The Church has NOT modified it's views on birth control.  There is MUCH more to this storyl

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Just because someone agrees with you does not mean they love you. We believe in love to, & we have enough love for you that we want you to know the truth. We love you so much we don't want to lose you to the old Devil. 
 
And, it is the truth that will make you free, God's truth.
 
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
 
The truth about God is found only in one place, & that's the pages of Holy Bible. The Holy Bible is  is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

When you add mans word to the Bible, you know longer have God's truths.

 

 

Re 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Re 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
 
De 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
 
De 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it
 
Pr 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
 
And as you can see man is not to take away from nor add to God's Word, God's Word is within the Bible, when man adds to or takes away from it, it is no longer God's Word.
 
There's one & only one way to be saved according to God unadulterated truth.
 
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
 
And that path only goes though Jesus Christ, the One who paid our sin debt on that old tree.
 
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
 
The only sinless human that has ever lived, the perfect sacrifice, the perfect Savior, & God loved us so much that he gave His only begotten Son so that we would not perish.
 
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
 
We either believe on Christ & have everlasting life, or believe not on Him & we shall not see life but the wrath of God.
 
Our choice, are you going to listen to man, or listen to God?
 
 

Thanks, I'll be listening to God.  Your so called religion didn't even come about until the past 100 years, so of course I will not be listening to your version.  I'll stick with the original, thanks

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Humble Catholic...

 

I urge you to consider this.  This is what your "Church" says about Mary:

 

Mary was taken, body and soul, into heaven (Catechism 974). This is the dogma of the “Assumption of Mary,” declared in the year 1950! In heaven, Mary supposedly intercedes for the church as advocate, helper, benefactress, and mediatrix" (Catechism 969). She is made virtually a co-savior with her Son (Catechism 968). Recently, an increasing number of prominent Catholics have petitioned the church to officially declare that Mary can provide forgiveness of sins!

 

This is what GOD says about it..

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
    —1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV)

 

From what manuscripts exist -- it is cut and paste -- but it is not "pick and choose".
The only part of the prayer one can really dispute -- is the name Mary being in the prayer. That was NOT the original prayer, and is a later addition. Mary's name in the annunciation is -- she who has been perfectly endowed with grace.
That is -- the part of the prayer "Hail, Full of Grace" is a title the angel attributes to Mary. Non-Catholic translators are the ones who "change scripture" by adding the word "Daughter" as in "Highly favored daughter" -- that word is nowhere in the passage in the original Greek and is an interpolation that ignores what was actually said.

But, more importantly, is the credentials of those who spoke the words and the context of both parts of the prayer that really matter. The first part of the prayer was spoken by the power of God through the mouth of his angel to Mary concerning the word becoming her child.
The second passage is the recognition by Elizabeth; but not her human recognition -- rather, scripture says that the Holy Spirit inspired (breathed) through her. Check the text...

And again, Elizabeth, is speaking of the motherhood of the child -- Just as the angel spoke of Mary at the annunciation. In these two passages we are certain of the nature of the words spoken -- that is that they spoken by God -- as Mary's en-titlement.

Scripture records the words of liars, Just/Honest men, agnostics; One must look carefully at what is drawn out of Scripture -- and regarding the Hail Full of Grace -- the author of the prayer knew what they were doing.
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From what manuscripts exist -- it is cut and paste -- but it is not "pick and choose".
The only part of the prayer one can really dispute -- is the name Mary being in the prayer. That was NOT the original prayer, and is a later addition. Mary's name in the annunciation is -- she who has been perfectly endowed with grace.
That is -- the part of the prayer "Hail, Full of Grace" is a title the angel attributes to Mary. Non-Catholic translators are the ones who "change scripture" by adding the word "Daughter" as in "Highly favored daughter" -- that word is nowhere in the passage in the original Greek and is an interpolation that ignores what was actually said.

But, more importantly, is the credentials of those who spoke the words and the context of both parts of the prayer that really matter. The first part of the prayer was spoken by the power of God through the mouth of his angel to Mary concerning the word becoming her child.
The second passage is the recognition by Elizabeth; but not her human recognition -- rather, scripture says that the Holy Spirit inspired (breathed) through her. Check the text...

And again, Elizabeth, is speaking of the motherhood of the child -- Just as the angel spoke of Mary at the annunciation. In these two passages we are certain of the nature of the words spoken -- that is that they spoken by God -- as Mary's en-titlement.

Scripture records the words of liars, Just/Honest men, agnostics; One must look carefully at what is drawn out of Scripture -- and regarding the Hail Full of Grace -- the author of the prayer knew what they were doing.

Oh yes I forgot. You don't believe in the authority of the scriptures.  I sure am glad my Sovereign Almighty God left me a pefectly preserved and devinely inspired, infallible copy of his revealed will in the 66 books of the old and new testement to prevent me from stumbling around in darkness with no absolutes. 

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Just a few thoughts here because he has been here before with the same arguments, so not going to spend much time casting pearls before swine:

 

*Regardless of what accusations are made against current churches, you will never be able to compare them to the sins that made God angry against an entire nation for 2000 years before Christ whom were among His own chosen people. Yet God preserved their examples and still blessed them in spite of what they did.

 

*The Roman Catholic Church ("RCC") was never given the benefit of the doubt that Israel was given because the RCC was not who God chose, He chose Israel. When Israel rejected Christ, the focus went to the Gentiles, and the apostle to the Gentiles was Paul, not Peter (Gal 2:7-8, Romans 11:13, Acts 22:21). Peter was the apostle to the "circumcision" (Jews) so he could not possible have been the first "Pope" of the church. The Roman "church" is GENTILE.

 

*The first text that was used to establish the RCC doctrines was not based on the texts translated by the apostles which were written and translated from Antioch and were Byzantine, but from later manuscripts translation from Alexandria Egypt, and from a late translation of the OT into Greek called a Septuagint that  was created in 300 AD circa. From 300 AD through 1500 AD the RCC relied primarily on traditions established at "counsels" and subsequent authority was based on previous counsels and new policys were added by traditional views, none based upon the Byzantine or Antioch texts. It was not until the Douay Rheims version that the RCC even used a codified and canonized version of a "Bible" and even then, it was not allowed to be read by church members, only clergy were allowed to possess and read it.

 

*The RCC integrated the government of Rome into a church politic body in 325 AD. But regardless of the amalgamation of seemingly "Christianized" policies, there is no change in the Bible's description of Rome's prophetical significance, i.e, Rome was the 4th empire in a series of empires that the Bible predicted would form a "beast". Daniel chapter 2 gives Nebachadnezzar's dream where a statute of gold (his empire) silver (Medo-Persia) bronze (Hellenistic/Greek) and iron mixed with clay (Rome) would make up one entire beast. John then describes this beast in Revelation 13:1-2. 

 

John was given a description of the location of this beast in Revelation 17:9 "Here is the mind which hath wisdom, the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman (harlot of Rev 17:3-4) sitteth". There is only one location on the planet wherein a religious and political city has ever been location and it's called the 7 Hills of Rome, Vatican City. The Harlot is called a city in Rev 17:21, and the blood of saints and prophets was found in her in Rev 18:24. 

 

And as if the above were not enough to identify Rome, here is conclusive evidence: In Rev 18:20, 3 people are told to rejoice because of her destruction, those in heaven, apostles in prophets. Problem here is that Rome could not have killed any prophets, because Malachi was the last OT prophet for 400 years  before Christ, and at that time, Greece or Medo Persia would have been in power, and they certainly killed prophets. But, Rome did kill the apostles, and millions of their disciples . But whoever this harlot was, killed both apostles AND prophets, the only way that could be possible is if Rev 18:20 is a reference to the entire system that began with Nebachadnezzar's idol, 4 different empires, but ONE STATUE. Therefore, the beast is the one who killed apostles and prophets, and since Rome was part of the statue, and is the only remaining empire, the beast which gives rise to the antichrist is ROME.

 

Furthermore, Rev 13:18 says "here is wisdom, let him that hath understanding COUNT the number of the beast, for it is the number OF A MAN, and his number is six hundred (600) threescore (60) and six (6) " =666. If you COUNT the Roman Numerals in the official title of the Pope (VICARIVS FILII DEI) the NUMBERS of his name  is a 500, a 100, two 5's, a 50, and six I's. (The A, R, S and F are not Roman Numerals, remember, we are to count the NUMBER or NUMERALS of his name) So the NUMBER of his name (Rev 13:17) equals 666.*

 

Furthermore, the term VICAR (for Vicar of Christ) comes from the word "vicarious" which means replacement. One of the predictions that defines the role of the antichrist is that he sits in the temple and declares himself to be God, thus REPLACE God.

 

Therefore, if you choose to stay faithful to a church that has its roots in a statue that forms the beast of the end times, of which the antichrist comes, of which is identified in Rome, of whom the number of the leader's name is 666, and of whose name means replacement (replacing God), and an empire of whom God destroys with fire, and all who worship this leader, you have many more problems than what is wrong with other churches. Before you even begin to analyze doctrines, you need to seriously consider the source of your material.

 

" He [Jesus] ceaselessly kept the human race in His care, to give eternal life to those who perseveringly do good in search of salvation"

Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, DEI VERBUM, Chapter 1, November 1965, Pope Paul VI

 

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works lest any man should boast" Eph 2:8-9. KJV

 

Even the Catholic's own current version (CEV) states: "You were saved by faith in God, who treats us much better than we deserve.[a] This is God’s gift to you, and not anything you have done on your ownIt isn’t something you have earned, so there is nothing you can brag about"

 

So the RCC publishes bulls, nuncios, and edicts about salvation that are not even in line with the Bible they use!

 

***************

 

ROMAN NUMERALS

 

I=1

V=five

X=ten

L=50

C=100

D=500

M=1000

 

The NUMERALS (NUMBER "COUNT the number of the beast", "whosever receiveth the NUMBER of his name") of his name are:

V I C A R I V S F I L I I D E I

VIC IV ILII DEI

V=5

I=1

C=100

 

I=1

V=5

 

I=1

L=50

I=1

I=1

D=500

I=1

5+1+100+1+5+1+50+1+1+500+1=666

 

 

I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast; and the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, having a golden cup in her hand....Rev 17:3-4

Edited by DrJamesA
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
Being Catholic, I'll likely be banned, but that's ok.  We welcome ALL to our forums, because we believe in Love your neighbor.

I hope you will find that as Christian's nobody here would wish to ban or run anyone off who we would have the opportunity of sharing the Gospel with.  I would hope that anyone who is saved would have this same desire, so I hope that you find in this forum loving, caring Christians.  Disciples who have a person's best interest at heart no matter what "religion" you would declare.  After all Jesus first called his followers Disciples, or learners, pupils which is our responsibility (2 Tim. 2:2) until we are with Christ.  

 

 

 

The Catholic Church was the first church, then the protest (ant) people protested and didn't like many things, so they broke off.  They they protest (ed) more and broke away more. This continued to this day and age and so now we have many denominations of protest (ants).  Doesn't this bother you?

As someone has pointed out already Jesus Christ started the first Church.  Historically, there were many groups before Constantine, such as the Waldenses who were already meeting as a Church in Italy and France before 120 AD.  The book of Hebrews was completed by AD 95 and as  Hebrews 13:24  states "Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you." a strong testimony was already established in this area. Consider the following testimonies:

 

 

 

Rainerio Saechoni was for seventeen years one of the most active preachers of the Cathari or Waldenses of Lombardy; at length he joined the Dominican order and became an adversary of the Waldenses. The pope made him Inquisitor of Lombardy. The following opinion in regard to the antiquity of the Waldenses was rendered through one of the Austrian inquisitors in the Diocese of Passau, about the year 1260 (Preger, Beitrage zur Geschichte der Waldesier, 6-8). He says:

Among all the sects, there is no one more pernicious to the church than that of the Leonists (Waldenses), and for three reasons: In the first place, because it is the most ancie
nt
: for some say that it dates back to the time of Sylvester (A. D. 825);
ot
hers to the time of the apostles. In the second place. because it is the most widespread. There is hardly a cou
nt
ry where it does n
ot
exist. In the third place, because if
ot
her sects strike with horror those who listen to them, the Leonists, on the co
nt
rary, posses a great outward appearance of piety. As a matter of fact they lead irreproachable lives before men and as regards their faith and the articles of their creed, they are orthodox. Their one fault is, that they blaspheme against the Church and the clergy,—poi
nt
s to which laymen In general are known to be too easily led away (Gretscher, Co
nt
ra Valdenses, IV.).

It was the received opinion among the Waldenses that they were of ancient origin and truly apostolic. "They call themselves," says David of Augsburg, "successors of the apostles, and say that they are in possession of the apostolic authority, and of the keys to bind and unbind" (Preger, Der Tractat des David von Augsburg uber die Waldensier. Munchen, 1876).

A statement of the Waldenses themselves is at hand. In a Waldensian document, which some have dated as early as the year 1100, in a manuscript copy which dates from 1404, may he found their opinion on the subject of their antiquity. The Noble Lessons, as it is called, says:

We do n
ot
find anywhere in the writings of the Old Testame
nt
that the light of truth and holiness was at any time completely extinguished. There have always been men who walked faithfully in the paths of righteousness. Their number has been at times reduced to few; but has never been altogether lost. We believe that the same has been the case from the time of Jesus Christ u
nt
il now; and that it will be so u
nt
il the end. For if the cause of God was founded, it was in order that it might remain u
nt
il the end of time. She preserved for a long time the virtue of holy religion, and, according to ancie
nt
history, her directors lived in poverty and humility for about three ce
nt
uries; that is to say, down to the time of Consta
nt
ine. Under the reign of this Emperor, who was a leper, there was a man in the church named Sylvester, a Roman. Consta
nt
ine we
nt
to him, was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and cured of his leprosy. The Emperor finding himself healed of a loathsome disease, In the name of Christ, thought he would honor him who had wrought the cure by bestowing upon him the crown of the Empire. Sylvester accepted it, but his companion, it is said, refused to conse
nt
, separated from him, and co
nt
inued to follow the path of poverty. Then, Consta
nt
ine, we
nt
away to regions beyond the sea, followed by a multitude of Romans, and built up the city to which he gave his name—Consta
nt
inople so that from that time the Heresiarch rose to honor and dignity, and evil was multiplied upon the earth. We do n
ot
believe that the church of God, absolutely departed from the truth; but one portion yielded, and, as is commonly seen, the majority was led away to evil; and the
ot
her portion remained long faithful to the truth it had received. Thus, little by little, the sanctity of the church declined. Eight ce
nt
uries after Consta
nt
ine, there arose a man by the name of Peter, a native, they say. of a cou
nt
ry called Vaud (Schmidt, Aktenstrucke, ap. Hist. Zeitschrift, 1852 a. 239. MSS. Cambridge University, vol. A, f. 236-238 and N
ob
le Leizon, V. 403. For the genuineness of the N
ob
le Lessons see Brez, Histoire des Vaudois, 1.42. Paris, 1793).

The great church historian, Neander, in commenting on this document, suggests that it may have been "of an elder origin than 1120. He further says:

But it is n
ot
without some foundation of truth that the Waldenses of this period asserted the high a
nt
iquity of their sect, and mai
nt
ained that from the time of the secularization of the church—that is, as they believed, from the time of Consta
nt
ine’s gift to the Roman bishop Sylvester—such an opposition finally broke forth in them, had been existing all along. See Pilicdorf co
nt
ra Waldenses, c. i. Bibl. patr. Ludg. T. XXV. f. 278. (Neander, History of the Christian Church, VIII. 352).

Such was the tradition and such was the opinion of the Waldenses in regard to their origin. They held to a "secret perpetuity during the Middle Ages, vying with the Catholic perpetuity" (Michelet, Histoire de France, II. 402. Paris, 1833).

Theodore Beza, the Reformer of the sixteenth century, voices the sentiment of his times, when he says:

As for the Waldenses, I may be permitted to call them the very seed of the primitive and purer Christian church, since, they are those that have been upheld, as is abunda
nt
ly manifest, by the wonderful providence of God, so that neither those endless storms and tempests by which the whole Christian world has been shaken for so many succeeding ages, and the Western part so miserably oppressed by the Bishop of Rome, falsely so called; nor those horrible persecutions which have been expressly raised against them, were able so far to prevail as to make them bend, or yield a volu
nt
ary subjection to the Roman tyranny and idolatry (Moreland, History of the Evangelical Churches, 7).

 

 

then the protest (ant) people protested and didn't like many things, so they broke off.  They they protest (ed) more and broke away more.

With this point I agree with you, the Protestant Churches, Methodist, Lutheran, etc did break the ties with Roman Catholicism.  Baptists, and the ancestors of such were never a part of the Roman Catholic Church and thus is not a Protestant Denomination.  

 

 

 

Thankfully we don't have to sit and listen to a "preacher" preaching whatever hate is on his mind for the week.  Our Mass is very holy, not a CARNIVAL atmosphere.

 

Romans 10:10-17  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.  For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.  For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?  And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!  But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 

   

 

 

The CC is a world wide church with, yes, a series of heads in Rome. God is above all, of course.  Where is the head of your Church?  Down the block?

 

Colossians 1:16-18  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:  (17)  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.  (18)  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
 
We believe what is written in God's Holy Word and follow this as all apostolic churches did.  
 
 
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There is certainly much more to this story than we know.  Discussing it without the facts is pointless

Whole story?

 

His wife almost lost her 2nd child due to medical conditions.

Almost lost her life and the 3rd baby (born with multiple birth defects), warned a second time by doctors to avoid pregnancies or risk dying and losing baby.

Being devout Catholic of German immigrant family, he would hear nothing of it.

 

Almost lost 4th child and herself (Dr had advised abortion even though this was in 1958).

During this pregnancy he sought council from his church and was told in no uncertain terms that if he went through with the vasectomy he would be ex-communicated (when he asked what he should do, he was told "practice abstinence").

 

One vasectomy later he finds himself ex-communicated.

 

Fast forward to 1994: While in ICU from a massive stroke a priest seeks to "minister" to him, he tells the priest "I've been ex-communicated".

3 conversations, 2 RCC "officials" and 1 week later he finds himself "re-instated" (my terminology).

 

So, the question still remains (in order for a "we" to not know the details -- it takes at least 2 parties to be in the dark, not just yourself!)

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Being Catholic, I'll likely be banned, but that's ok.  We welcome ALL to our forums, because we believe in Love your neighbor.

Let me just say that you had best not get upset that everyone seems to be "attacking your religion. You were the one that waltzed in slinging insults to all Baptists in general. The Bible says, "A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly:" ergo if you really wanted to get along with us you would have been a little more "Love your neighbor." So, if you really don't want to get kicked off the forum, you might want to back off.

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2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

When you add mans word to the Bible, you know longer have God's truths.

 

 

Re 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Re 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

 
I've got an illustration for this point. I always put sugar and milk or creamer in my coffee. That's the way I was introduced to it and that's the way I've had it for 53 years. So, anyway back to the illustration. I was at a church function early one morning (men's breakfast) and we all brought something or made something for the breakfast at our church kitchen.
 
This one brother made the coffee, very meticulous in the making I might add. He brought his special blend of ground roast, his own supply of distilled water, and made sure everyone had a taste of it. I was doing something else at the time, cooking bacon maybe. So, when I finished, I went to get my coffee. That brother who made the coffee was fellow shipping but, also keeping an eye on the coffee; you can't run out of coffee at a Baptist breakfast. I poured the coffee in a cup, added the sugar, and put in the non-dairy creamer; I stirred it and added a little more, aah, just right! So, I return to the bacon and the brother walked by and asked, "What do you think of the coffee (notice he didn't say his)." I said I think your coffee makes a great cup. He said, "Oh no, that stopped being my coffee when you began adding things to it to make it the way you like it."

 

To make a long story short, God gave man his preserved word and stepped back to see how it might be enjoyed. What did some men do; they began to add things to God's word almost immediately. God's words ceased to be God's word and became man's words. Some men wonder when they pray through dead people to God for understanding why God is silent. Some men wonder why God never answered them, then believe God isn't here anymore and finally resort to a "spiritual leader" to reveal man's words. It is a pitiful shame; man born out of sinfulness, corrupting what he touches, even God's own words.

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Just a few thoughts here because he has been here before with the same arguments, so not going to spend much time casting pearls before swine:

 

*Regardless of what accusations are made against current churches, you will never be able to compare them to the sins that made God angry against an entire nation for 2000 years before Christ whom were among His own chosen people. Yet God preserved their examples and still blessed them in spite of what they did.

 

*The Roman Catholic Church ("RCC") was never given the benefit of the doubt that Israel was given because the RCC was not who God chose, He chose Israel. When Israel rejected Christ, the focus went to the Gentiles, and the apostle to the Gentiles was Paul, not Peter (Gal 2:7-8, Romans 11:13, Acts 22:21). Peter was the apostle to the "circumcision" (Jews) so he could not possible have been the first "Pope" of the church. The Roman "church" is GENTILE.

 

*The first text that was used to establish the RCC doctrines was not based on the texts translated by the apostles which were written and translated from Antioch and were Byzantine, but from later manuscripts translation from Alexandria Egypt, and from a late translation of the OT into Greek called a Septuagint that  was created in 300 AD circa. From 300 AD through 1500 AD the RCC relied primarily on traditions established at "counsels" and subsequent authority was based on previous counsels and new policys were added by traditional views, none based upon the Byzantine or Antioch texts. It was not until the Douay Rheims version that the RCC even used a codified and canonized version of a "Bible" and even then, it was not allowed to be read by church members, only clergy were allowed to possess and read it.

 

*The RCC integrated the government of Rome into a church politic body in 325 AD. But regardless of the amalgamation of seemingly "Christianized" policies, there is no change in the Bible's description of Rome's prophetical significance, i.e, Rome was the 4th empire in a series of empires that the Bible predicted would form a "beast". Daniel chapter 2 gives Nebachadnezzar's dream where a statute of gold (his empire) silver (Medo-Persia) bronze (Hellenistic/Greek) and iron mixed with clay (Rome) would make up one entire beast. John then describes this beast in Revelation 13:1-2. 

 

John was given a description of the location of this beast in Revelation 17:9 "Here is the mind which hath wisdom, the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman (harlot of Rev 17:3-4) sitteth". There is only one location on the planet wherein a religious and political city has ever been location and it's called the 7 Hills of Rome, Vatican City. The Harlot is called a city in Rev 17:21, and the blood of saints and prophets was found in her in Rev 18:24. 

 

And as if the above were not enough to identify Rome, here is conclusive evidence: In Rev 18:20, 3 people are told to rejoice because of her destruction, those in heaven, apostles in prophets. Problem here is that Rome could not have killed any prophets, because Malachi was the last OT prophet for 400 years  before Christ, and at that time, Greece or Medo Persia would have been in power, and they certainly killed prophets. But, Rome did kill the apostles, and millions of their disciples . But whoever this harlot was, killed both apostles AND prophets, the only way that could be possible is if Rev 18:20 is a reference to the entire system that began with Nebachadnezzar's idol, 4 different empires, but ONE STATUE. Therefore, the beast is the one who killed apostles and prophets, and since Rome was part of the statue, and is the only remaining empire, the beast which gives rise to the antichrist is ROME.

 

Furthermore, Rev 13:18 says "here is wisdom, let him that hath understanding COUNT the number of the beast, for it is the number OF A MAN, and his number is six hundred (600) threescore (60) and six (6) " =666. If you COUNT the Roman Numerals in the official title of the Pope (VICARIVS FILII DEI) the NUMBERS of his name  is a 500, a 100, two 5's, a 50, and six I's. (The A, R, S and F are not Roman Numerals, remember, we are to count the NUMBER or NUMERALS of his name) So the NUMBER of his name (Rev 13:17) equals 666.*

 

Furthermore, the term VICAR (for Vicar of Christ) comes from the word "vicarious" which means replacement. One of the predictions that defines the role of the antichrist is that he sits in the temple and declares himself to be God, thus REPLACE God.

 

Therefore, if you choose to stay faithful to a church that has its roots in a statue that forms the beast of the end times, of which the antichrist comes, of which is identified in Rome, of whom the number of the leader's name is 666, and of whose name means replacement (replacing God), and an empire of whom God destroys with fire, and all who worship this leader, you have many more problems than what is wrong with other churches. Before you even begin to analyze doctrines, you need to seriously consider the source of your material.

 

" He [Jesus] ceaselessly kept the human race in His care, to give eternal life to those who perseveringly do good in search of salvation"

Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, DEI VERBUM, Chapter 1, November 1965, Pope Paul VI

 

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works lest any man should boast" Eph 2:8-9. KJV

 

Even the Catholic's own current version (CEV) states: "You were saved by faith in God, who treats us much better than we deserve.[a] This is God’s gift to you, and not anything you have done on your ownIt isn’t something you have earned, so there is nothing you can brag about"

 

So the RCC publishes bulls, nuncios, and edicts about salvation that are not even in line with the Bible they use!

 

***************

 

ROMAN NUMERALS

 

I=1

V=five

X=ten

L=50

C=100

D=500

M=1000

 

The NUMERALS (NUMBER "COUNT the number of the beast", "whosever receiveth the NUMBER of his name") of his name are:

V I C A R I V S F I L I I D E I

VIC IV ILII DEI

V=5

I=1

C=100

 

I=1

V=5

 

I=1

L=50

I=1

I=1

D=500

I=1

5+1+100+1+5+1+50+1+1+500+1=666

 

 

I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast; and the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, having a golden cup in her hand....Rev 17:3-4

attachicon.gifpope_paul_II.jpg

attachicon.gifscarlet.jpg

If the OP can give a response to this and still maintain his Catholic loyalty...I wonder if God uses forum posts as evidence at the Great White Throne Judgment!

 

***********

"And I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast...and the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, having a golden cup in her hand..Revelation 17:3-4http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/uploads/monthly_01_2013/post-24971-0-06528100-1358965461.jpghttp://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/uploads/monthly_01_2013/post-24971-0-17932100-1358965482.jpg

 

 

Edited by DrJamesA
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