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Question - Are Baptists Protestants?


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The book of him I'm reading is sort of his life story, mostly about his time in communist prisons. It's worth the time for me to read because I'm getting first hand evidence of his lack of biblical understanding, his improper use and interpretation of Scripture, his unbiblical ecumenicism and his wrongful ideas of what counts as salvation. This will be useful to share with those who think him a Christian martyr but only because they are unaware of the truth.

It's also interesting historical material regarding that time period.

That said, I certainly wouldn't recommend a non-Christian or babe in Christ read it.


John, the man lived behind the "iron curtain" within an atheistic communist nation that was previously Russian Orthodox. There were no IFB churches (IFB churches are mostly located in the security of the southern USA) and probably very few bibles. You think you can cut him a break?

Nobody is going to get their doctrine from the man but they may be embolden to face persecution because of his testimony.
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I am not familiar with the man whom you are referring to, however I believe that it is VERY important how screwed up someone may be in their doctrine. I don't want to get up into whether or not the person was born again, whether or not they have taken stripes in the name of the Lord. That is not the purpose of this post. I just wanted to emphasize that doctrine is something that we need to be very careful about and follow it the way the Bible explains it.


On the flip side you can have your doctrine perfectly and still be as useless to God as a two dollar bill. Sometimes I think that a testimony of suffering in the name of Christ trumps having doctrine down perfectly. It's through suffering with Christ that we are made joint heirs with him in the Father's kingdom. Not through having our doctrine down correctly.

To think Wurmbrand is an unsaved man is absolutely ludicrous. Calvin saved, Wurmbrand unsaved. :lol: You can have people burned at the stake but if you have your doctrine down correctly (which he didn't) then you are definitely a believer. Forget how you live. Edited by Wilchbla
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How many Catholics, Orthodox and other "Christians" have taken stripes, thinking it was for the Lord, yet they were unsaved and not actually serving Christ?

Untold thousands have suffered and died thinking they were doing so for the Lord yet they were serving the devil.




And many of them may have been saved. You don't have to be a IFBer from the southern US of A in order to be saved. You are equating having you doctrine down perfectly with being saved and I'm telling you that beside one's testimony of who they are trusting in for the salvation of their souls suffering in the name of Christ and in his service is one of the surest signs a man is saved. The Galatians that Paul wrote to were a saved people but had their gospel message messed up.
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I did not say he was not saved, I stated, he is a false teacher, an ordination by the Anglican & Lutheran's means nothing, except that the Anglican & Lutheran approves of his false teachings.

And yes, I'm serious, I do not follow false teaches & never recommend anyone to follow any false teachers. The Anglican & Lutheran's do not even teach people how to be saved, & there is one, & only one way for a man to be saved, its thanks to God's mercy, by grace though faith in Jesus, not of self, not of works, its a free gift.

And yes, I have read about the man & what he taught, he is a false teacher.

Its not being high & mighty, its called following Jesus, & believing Him.

Edited by Jerry80871852
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I'd be careful what you say about a man who has taken stripes in the name of the Lord no matter how up he may be in his doctrine.


I took your vulgar word out, you ought edit your post & to do the same, its not nice to use such a vulgar word, anytime, or anywhere.

Surely you can find a better adjective to use that that one.

And I suggest anyone that has quoted Wilchbla's post with the vulgar word in it, edit their post & remove it. We do not use vulgar words nor do we approve of their use.
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I did not say he was not saved, I stated, he is a false teacher, an ordination by the Anglican & Lutheran's means nothing, except that the Anglican & Lutheran approves of his false teachings.

And yes, I'm serious, I do not follow false teaches & never recommend anyone to follow any false teachers. The Anglican & Lutheran's do not even teach people how to be saved, & there is one, & only one way for a man to be saved, its thanks to God's mercy, by grace though faith in Jesus, not of self, not of works, its a free gift.

And yes, I have read about the man & what he taught, he is a false teacher.

Its not being high & mighty, its called following Jesus, & believing Him.


You read "Tortured For Christ", you might want to check out "Tortured For his Faith" by Bulgarian pastor Haralan Popov. Don't let the direction that his son Peter went cause you to infer such teachings unto Bro Haralan -- he (Haralan) didn't agree with the doctrinal diversion Peter took.

I know the above statement to be accurate, my wife and I knew Bro. Haralan for 9 years and were utilizing the postal service to smuggle Scripture into the Iron Curtain 3 pages at a time.
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John, the man lived behind the "iron curtain" within an atheistic communist nation that was previously Russian Orthodox. There were no IFB churches (IFB churches are mostly located in the security of the southern USA) and probably very few bibles. You think you can cut him a break?

Nobody is going to get their doctrine from the man but they may be embolden to face persecution because of his testimony.

There were Baptists in Romania, as he mentions them, including one who informed against him. The man had studied the Bible greatly prior to being cast into prison and served as pastor for years. Even so, nothing he says indicates he had a true understanding of biblical salvation, that he himself was biblically born again or that he ever helped anyone else be biblically born again in Christ.

He did denounce some of the practices of the Orthodox and Catholics, yet he also declared they were fellow Christians, along with universalists, JWs and others.

The man put forth the idea that confessing guilt and sins to him or a priest and taking "Holy Communion" meant one was a convert. Another time he stated that a man confessed his guilt and sins to him so he baptized him with a cup of water and that was his conversion. On a different occasion he says a man who had denied Christianity all his life suddenly yelled out "I love God" before he died which to him means the man went to heaven.

It should be noted that many Orthodox, Catholics and those of various denominations also suffered years of being in prison and enduring torture. That doesn't mean they were biblically born again in Christ, it doesn't mean their example is worthy of looking up to.

If any of these men had evidenced they were born again in Christ, had preached the biblical means of salvation, had truly stood for the Christ of Scripture, and had endured well, then they would be worthy of the title of Christian martyr and our attention. This man doesn't fit that description.
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I did not say he was not saved, I stated, he is a false teacher, an ordination by the Anglican & Lutheran's means nothing, except that the Anglican & Lutheran approves of his false teachings.

And yes, I'm serious, I do not follow false teaches & never recommend anyone to follow any false teachers. The Anglican & Lutheran's do not even teach people how to be saved, & there is one, & only one way for a man to be saved, its thanks to God's mercy, by grace though faith in Jesus, not of self, not of works, its a free gift.

And yes, I have read about the man & what he taught, he is a false teacher.

Its not being high & mighty, its called following Jesus, & believing Him.

That's true Jerry, and sadly from this man's own testimony he doesn't give evidence of having be biblically saved. He speaks of a rather generic "conversion" he experienced and nothing more. When he further speaks of conversion and being a Christian he doesn't speak of what Scripture says on the matter.

Not only was this man a false teacher on a wide variety of biblical matters, but worse of all, he taught a false gospel, which is no gospel at all and leaves those who follow it lost and hell bound.

No one who is a true follower of Christ should want to hold this man up as any kind of example, other than as a bad example, and a sad example.
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A person can take all the stripes they want for Christ, even beaten to death, but that does not save them, there is one & only one way to be saved. And I never said a church of any type could save a person. For church membership, baptizing, doing good deeds in the name of the Lord, even suffering for Christ, will not save no one.


Mt 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So please, do not say I said such a think, for I did not, & I surely did not say, so please don't insinuates that I even come close to saying such a thing.

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Which one John?

"In God's Underground"

The book was interesting as it pointed out some historical information, some stuff most Americans don't know or have forgotten about, and tells of the lengths communists went to trying to gain total control.

At the same time the book was disturbing when reading of the many false applications of Scripture and false views of what gets one to heaven.

It also, to me anyway, pointed out the danger in comfortable Western Christians thinking that only a true follower of Christ would or could stand firm under such conditions of prison and torture. The fact is, over the course of history, many non-Christians have stood firm under such conditions, and worse, out of pride or devotion to their false religion. Many Catholics have endured much for their false religion as have many Orthodox. They claim to be Christian, more than that, Catholics and Orthodox alike consider themselves to be the only true Christians belonging to the original church direct from the Apostles.

The reason Voice of the Martyrs supports and promotes so many who are not actually biblical Christians is because their founder was among them and yoked with them.

I did find it ironic at one point in the book where Wurmbrand seemed to be taking a stand against some false teachings, such as Mary worship, but yet considered the Catholics and Orthodox to be his brothers in Christ. Of course Wurmbrand himself was holding to false teachings himself.

Anyway, nothing in the book to build one up in Christ, but information gained to use when talking with some of the rabid VOM supporters and those who think Wurmbrand was some virtual saint of the faith.
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The Anglican & Lutheran's do not even teach people how to be saved, & there is one, & only one way for a man to be saved, its thanks to God's mercy, by grace though faith in Jesus, not of self, not of works, its a free gift.



That is a general statement and like all general statements, is not true in all cases. I know of several baptists who attend their local Anglican church as it is the only one in the area which teaches there is one, & only one way for a man to be saved, its thanks to God's mercy, by grace though faith in Jesus, not of self, not of works, its a free gift. The Baptists don't. One man I know who does attend his local Anglican church, was a former Baptist church Planter in the main red light area of London. When he retired,he had no pension but that supplied by the state and was offered a home by a friend. The only church preaching salvation by grace though faith in Jesus, not of self, not of works, its a free gift. is the local Anglican church. He said recently that he is not a member of the church because he is not an Anglican.

Our preacher last Sunday, said that he had a son who was the minister of an Evangelical Anglian church. I said "I cannot understand how any evangelical can be in the Anglian Church." He replied, "Nor can I." He then said his son doesn't wear his collar back to front, doesn't use the prayerbook, doesn't baptise babies, but only believers, and the bishop doesn't like it. There was a church in a village nearby which had a dwindling congregation and was down to about seven attending. The bishop asked if he would help build it up. When he said he would, the bishop gave him a man to lead it, but he said either they used their own man or they would pull out. The bishop didn't like it but had to agree. They built up the congregation from 7 to 70 in a fairly short time.
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"In God's Underground"

The book was interesting as it pointed out some historical information, some stuff most Americans don't know or have forgotten about, and tells of the lengths communists went to trying to gain total control.



I read most of Wurmbrand's books while studying communism before and shortly after I was saved. However, I was too naieve to see at the time his false teachings. Thankfully, I don't recall having recommended his books to anyone.

He did have an interesting take on obediance to authority in one of his books, that we should only obey that authority that obeys God. Romans 13 then does not mean that Christians should obey evil governments. These were Hitler's favorite verses. Wurmbrand's comments were about what Jesus said about rendering to Ceasar the things that are his. Wurmbrand's take was that he was owed nothing since he was a conqueror. There is also a book written in the 1820s about Romans 13 that supports this view as well.
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He did have an interesting take on obediance to authority in one of his books, that we should only obey that authority that obeys God. Romans 13 then does not mean that Christians should obey evil governments.


This brings back the old argument.

Weren't the governments of Paul's time evil when Paul wrote those verses in Romans 13?
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