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David Cloud Sword Of The Lord Article


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Another thing is, the SOTL claims to be an IFB publication, but they don't have an IFB as their editor.


When Shelton Smith took over as Editor, I researched him, because I didn't know him. I thought that he was (and is) a "converted" IFB from the Southern Baptist Convention. In the little bit of research I did, I learned that he had taken the church that he pastored (in Maryland if I recall) out of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Am I wrong about this?
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I know Shelton Smith and though I disagree with him on the doctrine of repentance, he is most definitely IFB. He leans more towards the Hyles crowd, but he is a good man.

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When Shelton Smith took over as Editor, I researched him, because I didn't know him. I thought that he was (and is) a "converted" IFB from the Southern Baptist Convention. In the little bit of research I did, I learned that he had taken the church that he pastored (in Maryland if I recall) out of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Am I wrong about this?


Your 100% correct on he came out from among the SBC, he may have brought the church he was pastor out to. And he is conservative.

Early on in his Sword of the Lord days he wrote a booklet laying out the problem with the SBC. Having been there he should know.
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I don't know what Smith teaches about repentance - though he disagreed with Curtis Hutson's denial of repentance not being necessary for salvation. I think Shelton Smith re-edited their hymnal to fix Hutson's edits.

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He wrote a series of articles on the topic of Repentance earlier this year. He came to the conclusion that repentance is simply changing your mind and therefore confession of sin is not necessary for Salvation.

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1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Mr 1:5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Strange one would leave out confessing their sins.

Edited by Jerry80871852
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Zacheus confessed ONE sin...the sin of cheating. I'm sure Zacheus had alot more sins than that but it doesn't say he confessed them all. I don't remember the Philippian Jailer confessing a list oif sins either, nor anyone else for that matter. I'm sure, a person could confess whatever comes to mind and that is good but, as in my case, that would take awhile. Repentance is to turn away from your sin and self. Zacheus turned away from his sin and the Phillipian Jailer did his as well because Instead of treating Paul and Silas cruely, in the next scene we see he is doctoring their wounds. The point is, if you were a pickpocket or drug dealer before salvation, you might not have specifically CONFESSED those sins by name, unless they came to mind at that time, but as a NEW CREATURE who has truly repented of your sin, your pickpocket and drug dealer days are over.

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Repentance IS a change of mind that leads to a change of action. Repentance means you see your sin like God sees it.

We do need to "confess" but there is no specific about what all to "confess". My guess is to confess the main sin of previously rejecting Christ.

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It seems everyone here is using the word confess in an unbiblical manner. It means simply "to agree with, be of one mind about." We can be of one mind about all our sins being against the Lord and making us guilty of judgement in Hell without naming them specifically (aside from whatever sins the Holy Spirit might bring to mind at that point in time or prior to that point).

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No since in guessing, speculating, or making something up on your own, the Bible tells us to confess our sins.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins

Mr 1:5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Mt 3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

Ac 19:18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.

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"Unbiblical"?
John 1:20 KJV And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

John 1:20 And he (was)of one mind about. , and denied not; but (was)of one mind about." , I am not the Christ.

John 1:20 And he agreed with, and denied not; but agreed with, I am not the Christ. (this one is close......I will confess)


Confess

Word Origin:
1300–50; Middle English confessen < Anglo-French, Old French confesser < Medieval Latin confessāre, verbal derivative of Latin confessus, past participle of confitērī to admit, confess, equivalent to con- con- + -fitērī, combining form of fatērī to admit


Let's see if that one works.......

John 1:20 And he admitted, and denied not; but admitted, I am not the Christ.

What is the opposite of DENY?

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In 1 John 1:9 and Romans 10 that is the definition of the word used. I do not know if it is the same word used in the other passages. Look it up in Strong's.

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1 John 1:
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. DENY

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. ADMIT

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.DENY



Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Same definition as in John 1:20 . Confessing is admitting, the opposite of denying

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Admitting to God in both cases - more than just reciting a list of sins, but admitting to God and agreeing with Him about your sin and the Saviour.

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Zacheus confessed ONE sin...the sin of cheating. I'm sure Zacheus had alot more sins than that but it doesn't say he confessed them all. I don't remember the Philippian Jailer confessing a list oif sins either, nor anyone else for that matter. I'm sure, a person could confess whatever comes to mind and that is good but, as in my case, that would take awhile. Repentance is to turn away from your sin and self. Zacheus turned away from his sin and the Phillipian Jailer did his as well because Instead of treating Paul and Silas cruely, in the next scene we see he is doctoring their wounds. The point is, if you were a pickpocket or drug dealer before salvation, you might not have specifically CONFESSED those sins by name, unless they came to mind at that time, but as a NEW CREATURE who has truly repented of your sin, your pickpocket and drug dealer days are over.


Which I already said.
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Something reminded me of a comment made earlier in this thread about someone disliking it when David Cloud referred to several of his books - the person thought he was dismissing them and pushing his material. (I am not defending the perceived manner that he may have come across in, but what was said when he replied.)

Did you ever stop to think maybe he has already dealt with your questions and concerns and mentioned those books because they would be most helpful? I sometimes post a link to a study I wrote or posted if I think it was related to the topic being discussed - don't have the time or inclination to write a new long post when something I've already written would be more beneficial. I think Cloud is the same way here.

For the person who made the comment about Cloud just trying to sell more books: he is not in it for the money, otherwise he would not send out free articles by email, have a free database on articles on his sight, and have an extensive section of free ebooks to download. That's a lot of sound Bible-based material he has made available. Obviously, money is not his motive.

Edited by Jerry
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Sending out free email articles is free advertising for your product. And that is a common business practice on the net for people that want to sell you stuff.

And telling people to buy my book entitled, ............................, whatever, to get an answer, is a selling point for one that wants to make money.

Many people today that in the business of selling, has a free data base of information that anyone can freely use, take a look at someone that sells trees, bushes, & seeds, they usually have a large data base with much information.

So in reality, he is using common business practices to sell his product, that many others use commonly use because they work quite good. So your reasoning does not prove he is not in it for the money, & I'm not saying he is. I'm just saying you have not proved he is not in it for the money.

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Sending out free email articles is free advertising for your product. And that is a common business practice on the net for people that want to sell you stuff.

And telling people to buy my book entitled, ............................, whatever, to get an answer, is a selling point for one that wants to make money.

Many people today that in the business of selling, has a free data base of information that anyone can freely use, take a look at someone that sells trees, bushes, & seeds, they usually have a large data base with much information.

So in reality, he is using common business practices to sell his product, that many others use commonly use because they work quite good. So your reasoning does not prove he is not in it for the money, & I'm not saying he is. I'm just saying you have not proved he is not in it for the money.

That's true Jerry. There are many TV preachers who respond to peoples questions by telling them which one of their books to buy.

If an article is put forth free, and someone has a question pertaining to the article, it would seem reasonable to provide an answer to the question rather than telling them to buy a certain book they have written.
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I've read enough of his material to see his purpose is to teach the Bible and get the material out. And you make a big assumption, he referred to some of his books - he didn't say "go buy my books." Perhaps those books are some of the material he makes available for free. I was surprised recently to see how many books (some of which I already have in hardcopy) are available for free on his site.

Regardless, he has every right to sell his books - they do that everywhere else in the secular world and in Christendom. He produces this material himself (ie. his Way of Life ministry does); therefore, there is nothing wrong with wanting to recover the costs in some way - if he wanted to do that. I can guarantee a die-hard ministry like his is not raking in the cash - there is not enough market for him produce his material and make a profit. Apostate and compromising Christendom don't want to hear what the Bible has to say. It is the little independent churches and solid preachers (plus, devoted men and women of God) that are going to be on the lookout for more solid Bible-based material than they can find in their regular ecumenical bookstore.

Also, the vast majority of the material in his books is sent out for free first in his articles (from what I have seen, it is various series out sent out articles that make up the contnts of the book on that subject). If he was in it to just sell books, he wouldn't do that!

Edited by Jerry
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On 6/30/2012 at 5:04 PM, Jerry said:

I've read enough of his material to see his purpose is to teach the Bible and get the material out. And you make a big assumption, he referred to some of his books - he didn't say "go buy my books." Perhaps those books are some of the material he makes available for free. I was surprised recently to see how many books (some of which I already have in hardcopy) are available for free on his site.

Regardless, he has every right to sell his books - they do that everywhere else in the secular world and in Christendom. He produces this material himself (ie. his Way of Life ministry does); therefore, there is nothing wrong with wanting to recover the costs in some way - if he wanted to do that. I can guarantee a die-hard ministry like his is not raking in the cash - there is not enough market for him produce his material and make a profit. Apostate and compromising Christendom don't want to hear what the Bible has to say. It is the little independent churches and solid preachers (plus, devoted men and women of God) that are going to be on the lookout for more solid Bible-based material than they can find in their regular ecumenical bookstore.

Also, the vast majority of the material in his books is sent out for free first in his articles (from what I have seen, it is various series out sent out articles that make up the contnts of the book on that subject). If he was in it to just sell books, he wouldn't do that!

 


I've read much of it, but I still do not have the ability to judge his heart. And even if I knew him personally, I could only guess.

 

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