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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

David Cloud Sword Of The Lord Article


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

HC I guess it would have just been nicer IMO if Cloud would have said his piece about the speakers at the Sword without actually mentioning names.

Then it would be up to each person to look up the people and figure out what they want to do with the information.

When he personally named the names, he was basically calling out each man individually....which to me crossed the line. But then, that's just me.

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Well, I know Bro. Cloud personally. And I know the pastor Kita is referencing. Both of these men have one goal in their lives: to love and serve the Lord with all their heart, soul, and might.

Both of these men preach God's Word without apology. And, in fact, have preached at the same conferences at our church (the same years, I mean). They preach in different manners, but they are both very interesting to hear, and God uses them mightily.

Bro. Cloud does not mince words. Pastor X doesn't either, but his approach is a bit different. And someone who doesn't know either of them could accuse both of them of being arrogant. But neither of them are. They are both uber busy men.

Again, I haven't read the article. I'm not really interested in reading it, especially after reading this thread. :icon_smile: And even though I know Pastor X preaches where he believes God would have him preach, I don't have a problem with Bro. Cloud calling him out for it. Why? Well, we do have the God-given right of free speech...and if we are to muzzle Bro. Cloud (or others like him) because we don't like that he chose someone we like to focus on and rebuke, as it were, then we will in turn be muzzled eventually.

Do I think it's gossip? No. I think it's a man who is sharing his heart - and I would be quite surprised if he hadn't already shared it with Pastor X. Do I think this thread is gossip? No (my earlier post was simply to point out the irony...). I think as Christians we should discuss this type of thing. We need to understand what is happening in Christianity today - from several perspectives.

Pastor X will not worry about criticism and neither will Bro. Cloud. They will both continue to serve the Lord.


Good thoughts!

We are in the day that the speaker gets attacked from within & from without.

I try hard not to attack the person, if I disagree just tell them I disagree & why I disagree If I think its false teaching, I will state that. Yet not saying anything about that persons intelligence or their comprehension skills, nor telling them they need to read their Bible. That helps no one.

I was once a member of a Baptist Group, & its not that other Baptist group whose name comes up every now & again. That was my 1st experience on a message board, & it seems most tried to provoke those they disagree with them. I suppose I picked up some of their ways. I've tried to shed them.

And if I may say this about the topic at hand, sometimes that person may know something that we are not aware of as yet. And I am not saying that's the case in this matter, for I know nothing about those people.
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I understand, Kita. And part of me agrees with you. Since I haven't read the article (is that me being lazy? :icon_smile: ), it can only be part - perhaps if I read the whole thing I would agree in entirety. Too, though, I think your reaction (as mine would have been) is also colored by your love for the man he named.

I think (and this is just my opinion) that one of the reasons Bro. Cloud says to read his books isn't so much that he thinks he's right (but of course he would...don't we all believe we are right when we are convinced of something in scripture?) as it is a way for a person to get to know Bro. Cloud's mind on things (and scripture as well) - and then, if there is still disagreement, so be it. If not, fine. KWIM? An article here or there doesn't completely do it.

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Kitagrl, I guess I am close, but not exactly where you are on this topic. If there is a preacher (ministry, church, etc.) that compromises in a certain way (such as believes heresy on a fundamental of the faith, is involved with or endorses some kind of blatant evil), then I would want to know it. For example, I don't want to just know Universalists are heretics and they have such and such false beliefs, I also would like to know if someone is one (such as C.S. Lewis) and what he or she teaches on the subject. A general warning has its place, but if there are specific people (referring to preachers, teachers, churches, etc.) involved in a particular compromise, then it is worthwhile to know. For example, if I expose Robert Schuller's heresies, but never point out specifically who it is teaching these heresies, I am neglecting part of my job as a watchmen. Haven't you ever had people say amen whenever you point out sin and compromise - but then get weird when you name a preacher, author, etc. that they know actually involved in that compromise. In the Bible, they named false teachers, false brethren, heretics, etc.

That being said, I agree that we should not be painting everyone with the same broad brush, unless it is proven that person ALSO is iMVolved in that compromise. I think sometimes people draw lines for themselves (for various reasons) and can't handle when another sound believer does not draw the line in the exact same place. Is a particular preacher a heretic, is he involved in the same compromises, does he put his stamp of approval on something that the Word of God teaches is wrong? Then he should be marked, to use Scriptural language. But if it is just a matter of a preacher differing with me on a minor matter, on something not spelled out in Scripture, then I believe I am to let him stand before the Lord on his own account. I am not him. Maybe the Lord has convicted me to do or not do something another preacher does or does not, but ultimately the Lord is the one we are individually accountable to.

Hopefully, I did not make sense or contradict myself! If it is a matter of sin, false teachings, etc., we should give a warning. If it is a matter of personal opinion, personal convictions (but not a doctrinal area), then we should leave their ministry up to the Lord.

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Jerry, I think we agree...I'm fine with warning against heretical teachings. But personally knowing one of the pastors called out in Cloud's article, I feel it falls under the category of "disagreement" rather than "heresy" and therefore crossed a line.

It would be one thing to say "I don't agree with the Sword of the Lord. Here are the compromises the Sword group has made: "

It is another thing to say "I think the Sword of the Lord are compromisers AND here is a list of everyone who has preached there, and are therefore, also compromisers, including good IFB pastors of good IFB churches."

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Yes, that's one thing I was saying earlier. It's one thing to practice separation, and to separate from compromisers, and even to personally separate those who don't practice separation in who they are involved with (ie. those in the Sword not separating from those they should) - but another another thing to blacklist someone who doesn't separate from the people I separate from, especially when it comes to second or third degree separation (as some may refer to it). If because of convictions about lack of separation on the part of the Sword, I choose not to read their material or directly support their ministry - due to my personal convictions - it is not up to me to be someone else's conscience and judge them for not drawing the same line. That's what it sounds like in this case. Brother Cloud has chosen to separate from the Sword, and cannot agree with anyone else who doesn't draw the same line - without proving that a particular individual is also involved in compromise.

An illustration, I have some books in my library from unsound people. Most are in unopened boxes that I once used for research purposes, and maybe some others I just never got around to personally checking out or making a decision on - but make note: these are obviously books I am not using at all, just packed away. Now let's say a brother comes over to visit, and starts perusing my library. We talk and something sparks an interest in a good book I got that maybe I never unpacked since my last move. He helps me go through some boxes trying to find this book, and instead finds Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis, sees no warning against the book written in the cover (because I'm not using it or passing it on), then concludes I must be partial to Lewis or at least not separated from him, therefore I am a compromiser in some way - the opposite is true: I hate Lewis so much that I have such a hard time going through his material personally to mark the heresies; therefore have kept the book until one day I decide to do so. Now, he decides to separate from me, and expose other people that won't likewise do so. Its one thing to expose Lewis, even expose those who quote from him or refer to him in a positive light, but not be against anyone who may have a particular book in their library.

Maybe my illustration fits a little, or maybe I am just so far off that I am missing something, but just trying to understand/discuss the issues more.

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Though I have many of David Clouds sermons I have never listened to one nor read anything of his or read much about him. So my coming statement is not directed to him. But I have found through personal experience that those that demand separatism are usually the least separated, especially when they make a point of exposing those that "disagree" or share a slightly differing view point. When someone is on a band wagon it's usually best to get off and ride your own horse.

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David Cloud is solid, and has many very excellent study materials. Don't throw out a solid ministry just because you differ with where he draws a particular line. If it wasn't for solid Bible teachers like Cloud, many more IFB individuals and churches would be by the wayside as well. His is a discernment ministry and it has its place for sure, regardless of whether someone might cross all their t's the same or not. Take what he presents, check it out with the Bible, and if it lines up, then hold to it - as you should do with any other sound Bible teacher or preacher. If something doesn't line up, then throw that part out - if a lot doesn't line up, then disregard that ministry. But if a lot of it lines up, then pray for discernment and wisdom** for what to do with what you think is not correct. If it is his personal opinion or conviction, but not a clear Bible principle, then take it as such - but if it is a clear Bible principle, then we need to heed it - regardless of our personal feelings about the source (providing the source is generally reliable - I am certainly not advocating dipping into the wells of infidelity or some wishy washy teacher to glean something to take with us. As they say: Eat the meat and spit out the bones - but if the meat is tainted, throw it out!).

**We should be praying for wisdom and discernment when studying the Bible and reading material by others anyway.

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David Cloud is solid, and has many very excellent study materials. Don't throw out a solid ministry just because you differ with where he draws a particular line. If it wasn't for solid Bible teachers like Cloud, many more IFB individuals and churches would be by the wayside as well. His is a discernment ministry and it has its place for sure, regardless of whether someone might cross all their t's the same or not. Take what he presents, check it out with the Bible, and if it lines up, then hold to it - as you should do with any other sound Bible teacher or preacher. If something doesn't line up, then throw that part out - if a lot doesn't line up, then disregard that ministry. But if a lot of it lines up, then pray for discernment and wisdom** for what to do with what you think is not correct. If it is his personal opinion or conviction, but not a clear Bible principle, then take it as such - but if it is a clear Bible principle, then we need to heed it - regardless of our personal feelings about the source (providing the source is generally reliable - I am certainly not advocating dipping into the wells of infidelity or some wishy washy teacher to glean something to take with us. As they say: Eat the meat and spit out the bones - but if the meat is tainted, throw it out!).

**We should be praying for wisdom and discernment when studying the Bible and reading material by others anyway.


Exactly what I meant when I said:


When someone is on a band wagon it's usually best to get off and ride your own horse.
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HC I guess it would have just been nicer IMO if Cloud would have said his piece about the speakers at the Sword without actually mentioning names.


That wouldn't be biblical nor serve any real purpose. Now, what exactly did Brother Cloud accuse your preacher friend of again???
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While I was in the Air Force my home church got a new pastor. He was only there a short time, & he was sent on his way shortly, for he was not what he claimed to be. Accusing this church of teaching church of Christ doctrine, which it did not. I'm sure he slandered this church to anyone that would listen. Personally I felt sorry for the man, trying to be a Baptist pastor yet could not tell the difference between Baptist & church of Christ teachings.

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Though I have many of David Clouds sermons I have never listened to one nor read anything of his or read much about him. So my coming statement is not directed to him. But I have found through personal experience that those that demand separatism are usually the least separated, especially when they make a point of exposing those that "disagree" or share a slightly differing view point. When someone is on a band wagon it's usually best to get off and ride your own horse.


Just so you know, David Cloud is definitely not one of the least separated. He does not expect of anyone what he doesn't practice himself.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Fundamental Baptist Fellowship and Fundamental Baptist Fellowship International.

Unless an explanation of both these names and their groups is later in this thread, I just may have to Google them. So far, this is the only answer I've gotten to my serious question. Looks like folk don't know how to answer questions, only debate or rather, ahem, discuss. Seriously, thanks for telling me what the letters mean!
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You know I think we probably agree 98% of the time but I just don't see that. That kind of thinking is one of the things that eventually can lead to pastors going astray. If they are only exposed to people that either say they are wonderful or horrible it can become a temptation to believe the people who say they are wonderful and ignore all criticism. I have seen pastors like that and I am sure you have too. If someone says they consider so and so to still be a good pastor but think they have a fault in a given area what is the great harm in that? We say and believe pastors are just men and fallible so what is the problem with publicly naming names and saying you think so and so is wrong in a given area? You may or may not agree on a particular issue but why is it necessary to sweep all disagreements under the rug and publicly pretend that there is no disagreement until things get so bad they explode?

This is not referring to this situation in particular as I do not and never have read the "sword of the Lord" nor do I really know that "crowd" and thus have no opinion one way or another. More of a general observation.

I totally agree with this post. Sweeping things under the rug is no way to live. If someone is wrong in a certain area, folk should know it. I'm not saying focus on it all the time, but folk do need to be warned/admonished that who they may listen to is off in an area or two, yes, even among Independent Baptists. As previously stated, I used to be in Easy Believism/Quick Prayerism. The LORD used His word, preached by some of His choice men, to get me out of that false doctrine/way of life, pardon the pun here!
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To prove he stepped out of bounds would be to prove he was lying about this subject.

Excuse me, edited to add, or that he was wrong in the accusation made.

AMEN Brother Jerry!
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It may not concern you but it concerns us if our church is one of the offenders or is in partnership with one of the offending churches. We need to be very careful who we yoke with. I have seen many churches creep to the liberal side because of who they decided to start yoking with.

I'm in the AMEN corner on some of these today! You're exactly right!
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I would have to think about it. Sword Of The Lord does teach a wrong view of repentance and that is a serious matter. Also, if any of the speakers has CCM in their church we need to separate from them. Discernment is really lacking in many IFB churches and Cloud is a big help to educate IFB leaders. I am not say I always agree with Cloud but he fills a role that I don't see anyone else helping with.

Brother, right on target again! The SOTL is a hotbed of Easy Believism/Quick Prayerism. Another thing is, the SOTL claims to be an IFB publication, but they don't have an IFB as their editor. For that matter, are they even out of a local IFB church? I think they claim FRBC Murfreesboro somewhere/how, but just like a lot of "preachers" I've seen, just in name only.
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It concerns me very much where a pastor has preached, or held the position of pastor, if he was to happen to preach in our church. In a previous post I stated a preacher that I knew quite well years ago had held the position of pastor in some very questionable churches, not knowing this I would have him, yet knowing it I would not allow him behind my pulpit.

I believe we are in an age, that many people firmly believes that you never to say one thing about a person unless its good. And If you can't say good about a person keep your mouth shut. Of course that comes from the liberals, for they want no one to warn anyone about them.

And of course, a person is not going to agree with anyone 100% of the time,

Unfortunately, folk still take what Grandma said, over what God says. Grandma has been quoted as saying "if ya cain't say anythin' good 'bout 'em, don't say nothin' at all!" Only thing is, God says among other things, to reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and doctrine. If someone's wrong in an area, folk need to be told and also to avoid said offender!
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So, if David Cloud is gossiping because of mentioning names, what's going on this thread? Just sayin...

(please know that I'm not saying this shouldn't be discussed; but what's been said about David Cloud in this thread is of the same nature of the things he has said and been dissed as gossiping for)

AMEN Sis!
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Unless an explanation of both these names and their groups is later in this thread, I just may have to Google them. So far, this is the only answer I've gotten to my serious question. Looks like folk don't know how to answer questions, only debate or rather, ahem, discuss. Seriously, thanks for telling me what the letters mean!


No problem, these acronyms pop up everywhere. Yep, just Google them to get the info.
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    • Razor

      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
      Peter could have had a ham sandwich in Acts 2, but he did not know it till later, by revelation. But this has nothing to do with 1John 2;23 and those 10 added words in italics. Where did they get them? Did the violate Pro. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Where did they get this advance revelation? Was it from man, God or the devil?
        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
      BUT THE LAW OF MOSES DID DEMAND MY LIFE
      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
      BUT A DREAM HE RECEIVED ENDED ALL FEARS
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
      BUT HEROD THAT DEVIL SOUGHT FOR HIS SOUL
      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
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