Denominational Divisions Are Doctrinal

[Steve Schwenke]

John, I hear you on that. I know of a handful (literally!) of churches that are sound but not called "Baptist." They are, however, "Baptistic" in practice and doctrine.
But by and large, the Independent Baptist churches across America are the ones who are still holding to the truth in doctrine and practice.
As the end times approach, we will see fewer and fewer churches holding the line on sound doctrine, separation, preaching, etc.

Am 8:11 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Am 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

Also, what Jerry said is absolutely true. And I think that is why so many people today are dropping their "denominational" names....they forgot where they came from. We must remember that it is our ENEMIES who named us....many of the other denominations named themselves after their leaders or after some outstanding issue they "championed" (Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Church of England, etc.) Our name was meant as an insult.

[1John2:15-17]

John, I hear you on that. I know of a handful (literally!) of churches that are sound but not called "Baptist." They are, however, "Baptistic" in practice and doctrine.
But by and large, the Independent Baptist churches across America are the ones who are still holding to the truth in doctrine and practice.
As the end times approach, we will see fewer and fewer churches holding the line on sound doctrine, separation, preaching, etc.

Am 8:11 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Am 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

Also, what Jerry said is absolutely true. And I think that is why so many people today are dropping their "denominational" names....they forgot where they came from. We must remember that it is our ENEMIES who named us....many of the other denominations named themselves after their leaders or after some outstanding issue they "championed" (Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Church of England, etc.) Our name was meant as an insult.

And even among Independent Baptist and Independent Fundamental Baptist churches, there seem to be differences and straying from our Baptist origins. One example, as mentioned in other threads/topics, there may be a trend toward "worldly" music, or a church may becoming soft on separation, just to name a couple. Having IB or IFB in a church name alone does not necessarily mean that a particular church is "right". JMHO

[frontline_preacher]

Psalms 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

with out denominational line you will eventually end up in bed with "that woman Jezebel"

Revelation 2:24-25 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

sounds like to me that the Lord recognized a denominational / doctrinal line / difference

Proverbs 27:13 Take his garment that is surety for a stranger, and take a pledge of him for a strange woman.

Micah 2:8 Even of late my people is risen up as an enemy: ye pull off the robe with the garment from them that pass by securely as men averse from war.

[rev2:20 thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants
to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols]

* because Gods people where averse to war, they where seduced, there standards where pulled away, their
authority was whored out for comfort (pass bysecurely), they where risen as an enemy (phi 3:18-19, james 4:4)

Micah 2:9-10 The women of my people have ye cast out from their pleasant houses; from their children have ye taken away my glory for ever. Arise ye, and depart; for this is not your rest: because it is polluted, it shall destroy you, even with a sore destruction.

[Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.]

Micah 2:11 If a man walking in the spirit and falsehood do lie, saying, I will prophesy unto thee of wine and of strong drink; he shall even be the prophet of this people.

[ Ephesians 5:3-8 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: ]

* interesting that, whordom, uncleanness, and covetousness is exactlly the means by which the contemtuary crowd represents Christianity.... sounds like jezebel is alive and well...suduceing spirits and doctrines of devils...shall a separated man then bid God-speed to such apostasy ---- GOD FORBID !

are we not told to reprove theses unfruitful works ?
shall we then have unity with such ?
will Jesus be pleased with Christians called to be soldiers, that are averse to war ?
shall we take a pledge (have unity) and climb in bed with a strange woman ?

denominational lines are indeed doctrinal, the spirit of antichrist wants to remove them and will succeed so long and Gods people remain AVERSE TO WAR !

Hebrews 10:37-38 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.....but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Revelation 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

HOLD ON TO YOUR DOCTRINE, and prove your self a bible believer

Edited May 27, 2012 by frontline_preacher

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

And even among Independent Baptist and Independent Fundamental Baptist churches, there seem to be differences and straying from our Baptist origins. One example, as mentioned in other threads/topics, there may be a trend toward "worldly" music, or a church may becoming soft on separation, just to name a couple. Having IB or IFB in a church name alone does not necessarily mean that a particular church is "right". JMHO

So true. David Cloud says pretty much the same thing in his FREE book Biblical Separatism and its Collapse which I am currently reading. I am blessed to be in a solid IFB church. I always pray for our church though since I see IFB churches and schools compromising in the area I live in and don't want that to creep into our church. Edited May 27, 2012 by MatthewDiscipleOfGod

[JerryNumbers]

I have stated at church, there are churches around, that do not have the name Baptist in their name, that holds to the truth, but I believe the number is few. Of course, there's also churches that have Baptist in their name that do not hold to the truth. The church that ordained me, has gone liberal, & I doubt that I could ever be part of it again, unless they made a change. But it seems once a church turns down the path of liberalism, hardly any return.

Our roots, how many are there in Baptist Churches that knows our roots, how many pastors knows our roots. I know several local Baptist pastors, few of them knows anything about our roots. They uphold the likes of Mr. Graham, with everyone joining together to worship as one no matter what name they may have on the door of their church. They seem to believe anyone that attends any church no matter what they teach, are God's children.

I know of two Baptist Churches in these parts that has a pastor that is a member of the lodge, & it seems these church approve of the lodge. More than likely these people know nothing of our roots, & also knows little to nothing of the lodge. Probably would not listen to anyone that told them the truth about the lodge & our Baptist roots.

I do not call us Baptist a denomination, we have our roots all the way back to Jesus. There are denominations. They came about from some leaving us, starting their own denomination. And of course there are those that come out of the RCC, many call them Protestants while many of them claim to be Protestant. These churches have many different names, & they are many different denominations of them.

One thing for sure, the name Baptist, nor will a Baptist Church, or a church by any other name, saved a person. Church membership, being baptized has never saved a single soul. There may well be people in Heaven that were members of many different brands of churches. I have heard, & I believe its pretty close to truth, that close to about 80% of the churches in America teach works based salvation. Those who happen to make Heaven that are part of theses churches got saved in spite of their churches teachings, sad thing is, most of them will not make Heaven. Sad to is it that truly saved people would stick with a church that does not teach people how to be saved. I really don't believe there will be many of them coming out of theses churches saved, because of the teachings on coming out from among them.



2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty

It clearly says, come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Clearly, if they were truly saved, they would hear the voice of the Savior, & come out from among them. It seems many of them that claim to be saved in such churches are not hearing God's voice, & coming out from among them

Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

As I have said before, there's not near as many saved people as many believes there are.

[frontline_preacher]

One thing for sure, the name Baptist, nor will a Baptist Church, or a church by any other name, saved a person. Church membership, being baptized has never saved a single soul. There may well be people in Heaven that were members of many different brands of churches. I have heard, & I believe its pretty close to truth, that close to about 80% of the churches in America teach works based salvation. Those who happen to make Heaven that are part of theses churches got saved in spite of their churches teachings, sad thing is, most of them will not make Heaven. Sad to is it that truly saved people would stick with a church that does not teach people how to be saved. I really don't believe there will be many of them coming out of theses churches saved, because of the teachings on coming out from among them.

this is true... i would like to say also, that even in many of our IFB churches that i have been through and preached at, when they lead people to the Lord, their tactics are to get that person to say "sorry God please forgive me" thus if they can get the person to say yes to a few questions and then pray they say "O praise God" and then proceed to cram eternal security down their throat as quickly as possible

wherein a much wiser approach would be to strategically cause that person to realize he must SUBMIT TO GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS and call upon his name by faith (the name of Jesus is the foundation of N.T. faith) in so doing receiving the atonement rom 5:11, 1 john 5:12-13

the tactics are watered down, i believe mostly in part to the fact that we are living in laodica times, and many a Christian are desperate to see people saved. therefor they don't lead men to repentance and point them to the cross, they lead them to a pray and intellectual knowledge that has not effected the heart of the profess-er of belief

the repentance that is to be lead to is a repentance of false belief, that's what Paul preached and that's what we need to preach. not repenting of sin, they can not repent of sin wail they are still the servants of sin. it is an authority issue not a propensity issue.

Acts 24:25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

* righteousness - self righteousness/ Gods righeousness
* temperance - no power over sin, sevant of sin
* judgment to come - no power in the day of judgment, no means of justification

let use keep in mind the context of rom 10 before we just follow the romans road and stand before God with bloody hands

Romans 10:1-5 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 2 cor 5:21, phi 3:9, rom 3:23-26

that right there is where you find repentance in rom chp. 10

= Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

faith in his name calling upon him to receive the atonement - which is "the blood applied" = remission of sins, justification in the day of judgment Edited May 27, 2012 by frontline_preacher

[frontline_preacher]

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty

It clearly says, come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Clearly, if they were truly saved, they would hear the voice of the Savior, & come out from among them. It seems many of them that claim to be saved in such churches are not hearing God's voice, & coming out from among them

Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

As I have said before, there's not near as many saved people as many believes there are.

amen !