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How Much Does God Intervene?


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I'm not sure how to phrase this question in the right way...but it is this...

Do we attribute TOO much to God?

Let me explain.

Things such as injury and illness and pain are part of life in a sinful world. Its part of the curse. Lost people and saved people alike get viruses, they fall down and get hurt, they have different troubling things happen in their life. But some of that....I mean...if I were to get a virus and throw up tomorrow....does that mean that God necessarily gave me, or "let me get" that virus? Or could it just be part of being alive in a sinful, cursed world? I've heard people say before "I'm sick, I don't know what God is doing with this sickness, but I'll accept it."

Could it be more accurate to say, "I'm sick....its too bad we live in a sin cursed world....I'll ask God to help me through this."

????

I know God has much to do in our lives but sometimes I have a hard time believing he orchestrates every sniffle, every cough, every accident...???? I think He helps us through these times, but sometimes I think much of it is just a result of the curse, that hits lost and saved alike. After all, the Bible says the rain falls on the just and the unjust.

Just thoughts.

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God has a hand in everything that we go through, He allows the devil to afflict us, test us, tempt us, but to say that it is a curse, I do not think that everything we go through is a curse. It's for a purpose which I believe is to bring us closer to depending on God for everything, not necessarily because we have sin in our lives.

I no longer ask God why He allows things, I ask God how to get through them because I know there is a blessing coming in there somewhere.

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Okay, but while we may face the repercussions of others sin, I do not think the things we go through have anything to do with that. We were passed down that horrible sin nature, but we can overcome it through Christ.

Every time I read through Judges to 2 Kings I think of the judgment as a nation that we face because of ungodly leaders, no matter what nation we are struggling.

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Nothing, not one single thing, happens without God either directly bringing it about or allowing it. A virus can no more drop a sparrow or infect a person without God allowing it or causing it to do so.

What some do is blame God too much for certain things or take a wrong view of they "why" for things. Such as in the case of Job where his friends were way off in regards to why they thought Job was suffering. Or how some folks view everything in their life as either an attack of the devil or a trial or testing from God. Just because the light bulb went out as you flipped the switch before sitting down to read your Bible doesn't mean the devil knocked the light out to try and keep you from the Word or that God knocked the light out to test and see if you would replace the bulb and still read the Word. It could just be that the bulb was due to go out and God let it happen for no other reason than that.

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Just because the light bulb went out as you flipped the switch before sitting down to read your Bible doesn't mean the devil knocked the light out to try and keep you from the Word or that God knocked the light out to test and see if you would replace the bulb and still read the Word. It could just be that the bulb was due to go out and God let it happen for no other reason than that.



Okay...good example....but do you think God actually "LET" it happen....or would it mean that it just happened, and He had a choice to intervene, of course, but did not. Maybe its semantics...but my idea is that God isn't really involved in the broken light bulb unless He had a reason to need it to stay on supernaturally and thus made that happen....

Similarly....I get around someone with the flu...and depending on the strength of my body, I either catch it or don't catch it....God having nothing to do with it unless He decides to intervene....?

Actually sometimes lost people have a big problem with God for this reason. They feel that God took their baby, or God made them go broke...I often say that the world is cursed because of sin, and bad things just happen to everyone. But God is there to help us through them.

It is rather disconcerting to think that "God made that baby die". To me, its more logical (although, probably wrong, since the wisdom of the world is foolishness with God) to think that bad things happen to everyone no matter what, but God can choose to change circumstances to glorify himself if necessary.

To me its similar to "election"...we are "elect" but that "election" is according to FOREKNOWLEDGE.....not an actually picking and choosing "You get to be saved, you get to be lost". So if I catch the flu....God has the foreknowledge of that event, but it doesn't mean he orchestrated my flu...it just means its a sinful world with the curse of the flu and everybody ends up with it eventually....

Right?
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God chooses many means to be glorified, often through things we cannot with human understanding comprehend. My brother, healthy as can be, got a cold within two days he was in the hospital, it turned into pneumonia. He was on his way to recovery, even woke up and started trying to get out of bed, two days later he died, he was 34 years old, others in much worse condition recover.

I do not try to explain why God allows some people to have a miracle recovery while others get to go to heaven before the time we expect because that is between God and each individual. Everything, good, bad, and ugly, is in the hands of God, how we deal with it is in our hands.

God knows how we are going to react, He knows who is going get angry at Him for the loss or abuse of a child, it has nothing to do with the curse, it's how we handle these situations that brings a type of curse. I believe that there are two ways that people handle things, God's way or our own way, He already knows how we are going to handle them too. We can choose to get angry at God or draw near to God, we can choose to get bitter and hate God or find peace through God.

Some of Jesus' disciples asked Jesus what sin a man or his parents committed that caused him to be blind, Jesus said, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

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Okay...good example....but do you think God actually "LET" it happen....or would it mean that it just happened, and He had a choice to intervene, of course, but did not. Maybe its semantics...but my idea is that God isn't really involved in the broken light bulb unless He had a reason to need it to stay on supernaturally and thus made that happen....

Similarly....I get around someone with the flu...and depending on the strength of my body, I either catch it or don't catch it....God having nothing to do with it unless He decides to intervene....?

Actually sometimes lost people have a big problem with God for this reason. They feel that God took their baby, or God made them go broke...I often say that the world is cursed because of sin, and bad things just happen to everyone. But God is there to help us through them.

It is rather disconcerting to think that "God made that baby die". To me, its more logical (although, probably wrong, since the wisdom of the world is foolishness with God) to think that bad things happen to everyone no matter what, but God can choose to change circumstances to glorify himself if necessary.

To me its similar to "election"...we are "elect" but that "election" is according to FOREKNOWLEDGE.....not an actually picking and choosing "You get to be saved, you get to be lost". So if I catch the flu....God has the foreknowledge of that event, but it doesn't mean he orchestrated my flu...it just means its a sinful world with the curse of the flu and everybody ends up with it eventually....

Right?

I agree that some things happen because of what might be considered "the natural course of things", but God has to allow that natural course to go on for it to occur. At any time God can intervene, causing "the natural course" to stop, slow, speed up, become immediate, etc.; or to give the devil leave to do so.

Scripture tells us God works ALL THINGS together for good. In order for that to be true, God must be in control of all things.

Some verses to consider:


Ephesians 1:11

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who WORKETH ALL THINGS after the counsel of his own will:



Isaiah 46:9-10

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:



Proverbs 16:9

9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.
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God does not interfere with mans free will. But he does this.

Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


Of course how He is able to do this is beyond our comprehension.

&

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

He chastens His children. Of course the only punishment a child of God gets is while they live this life

Of course that which happens, He allows, but that does not mean He approves of everything that takes place..

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I mean, like, here is another example.

Someone trips and breaks their arm. They say, "I don't know why God allowed me to break my arm."

It seems to me that sometimes people just trip and break their arm...you know? Now, I think God will help you through it, as a Christian. And I think God can make it work out for good. But I don't necessarily think God had something to do with the falling and breaking the arm...isn't that just part of life?

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I mean, like, here is another example.

Someone trips and breaks their arm. They say, "I don't know why God allowed me to break my arm."

It seems to me that sometimes people just trip and break their arm...you know? Now, I think God will help you through it, as a Christian. And I think God can make it work out for good. But I don't necessarily think God had something to do with the falling and breaking the arm...isn't that just part of life?


I agree. The falling & breaking her arm is her fault, & she should not put no blame on God.

Once a young woman that was attending & having a difficult time believing in God said something like this to me.

"My mother divorced when I was quite young, my step father sexually abused me. My mother would not believe what was being done to me. She finally caught him, but so much had happened. There cannot be a God if He would allow that man to treat me, a young girl, in such a vile manner. And if there is a God & He lets things like this happen to young innocent children I want no part of Him."

God is aware of it, God knows its going to happen, yet during this time He does not intervene between mankind's & his free will.
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I agree. The falling & breaking her arm is her fault, & she should not put no blame on God.

Once a young woman that was attending & having a difficult time believing in God said something like this to me.

"My mother divorced when I was quite young, my step father sexually abused me. My mother would not believe what was being done to me. She finally caught him, but so much had happened. There cannot be a God if He would allow that man to treat me, a young girl, in such a vile manner. And if there is a God & He lets things like this happen to young innocent children I want no part of Him."

God is aware of it, God knows its going to happen, yet during this time He does not intervene between mankind's & his free will.


I actually agree with this.... a lot of people think that God micromanages every little thing. He KNOWS every little thing...a sparrow doesn't fall without Him knowing...but so much of life is just...well, life. Its life in a sinful, cursed world. And I have a hard time believing God orchestrates every little detail, down to every little virus, accident, or etc.
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Surely, if God was going to intervene, He would intervene when an evil man was abusing, murdering, young girls & or boys. I personally cannot see that any good whatsoever that can come out of such things, for there is no doubt that the young boys & girls molested & murdered in our life time are innocent & do not deserve such deeds.

Now, it would not surprise me if God's hand is involved in some thing that seems quite bad. For instants.

Linda had a young cousin, I knew here quite well when she was young, Linda & I spent several New Years Eves at their house, she was sweet & cute. We would go over to their house because there was no partying or drinking, just a happy time. Supposedly she got saved. But while married, she was with a boyfriend that no one knew about in his pickup truck several miles from here going away from home. It was raining & they had a one vehicle wreck, & both were killed. I mean, I don't know that God was in on it, but I do know that at times when some of His children get deep involved in sin, He will call them home. I just claim that would be a possibility. I promise you one thing, that was one of the saddest funeral services I've ever attended.

Of course I firmly believe that if we will pray to God asking Him, there will be times He will offer us travel grace away from & back to home. Yet, like you say, its not a micromanage of everything in every persons life.

I've got a great question JUST for you, & I would appreciate it much if no one would answer it until Suzy has the opportunity to answer this.

When I was just over about 1 & 1/2 years old my mother, sister, & brother lost their life in a house fire. My sister & I survived. If my borth had been home, maybe he could have helped, or maybe it would have been worse. Mother had asked him to ride his bike to the store, about 1 mile away, to pick up something for supper. Mother started the fire in the wood cook stove, this was in October, Bobby & Betty was with her, my sister Dixie was setting on the front porch holding me. Anyone's guess where our father was, he spent most of his time drinking & chasing women according to everyone that knew him.

When the stove exploded, mother brought Betty to the front porch, told Dixie to take her by her hand, & for us to go stand by the fence,about 40 to 60 years from the house. Them mother went back for Bobby, about 3. Dixie, just over 6, took off towards the fence, carrying me in one arm, & had Betty's hand. Betty, about 5, broke loose from Dixie, running back into the house. Dixie has said, "I didn't know what to do, run after Betty, or go to the fence." But what she did was take me & headed for the fence thinking she should do as mother told her to. According to the 1st ones to get there Dixie was standing by the fence, holding me, & crying, plus that I was a very unhappy young boy. Dixie has said, when the house exploded, fire come flying out, & I could hear screaming. Can you imagine that young girl standing there hold me & seeing & hearing what she did?

Now the question, do I thank God for saving me & my sister, & that my brother had gone to the store, & do I blame the death of my mother, brother, & sister, on God?

One thing for sure, I refuse to blame the death of my mother, brother, & sister on God.

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A study on the sovereignty of God is needed. Read John81's posts, they are in line with Scripture.

If I stub my toe, God allowed it to happen. He is in complete control of everything that happens on the earth, with the exception of the free will of man. But even with the free will, God allows or controls everything that comes into our life.

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A study on the sovereignty of God is needed. Read John81's posts, they are in line with Scripture.

If I stub my toe, God allowed it to happen. He is in complete control of everything that happens on the earth, with the exception of the free will of man. But even with the free will, God allows or controls everything that comes into our life.


But God allows it by default...right? Meaning...it happened because we live in a cursed world, and He decided not to intervene...right?
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