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1Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Does "all men" mean "all men" in the first clause, but not the second?

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Yes. Adam brought us condemnation Jesus Christ brought us opportunity. A free gift is still in the box unless someone takes it.

The offer is there but, by the foolishness of preaching all men are to hear and then the whosoever will...


Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

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If 'all' is understood with a distinction to the sets involved (blood line of Adam, 'blood' line of God), then one could say yes. If 'all' is undersood as every single one, without exception, then no.


"All men" (number 1) are all those with the blood of Adam, from v 12, and continued in verse 19, the Lord Jesus Christ (verse 11) being the man (verse 15) with the exception (because he did not have Adam's blood and could therefore be the atonement) (Verses 13-17 being a parenthetical phrase, explaining how death passed upon 'many' men through the blood of Adam)

"All men" (number 2) are all those saved, from v 10, and continued in verse 19, (Verses 13-17 being a parenthetical phrase, also explaining how life passed upon 'many' men through the atonement - by way of the blood - of Jesus Christ)

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If "all" don't mean "all", I wonder what the meaning of "is",,,,,,"is"?


What do you want "all" to mean with regard to the preponderance of scripture for the Gospel of Christ? What does the full council of God's word tell you the two "alls" mean?
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Romans 5:18a
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all* men to condemnation;

all* - πᾶς pas (pas`) adj.
1. all, any, every, the whole

Romans 5:18b
even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all* men unto justification of life.

all* - πᾶς pas (pas`) adj.
1. all, any, every, the whole

Yes! All means all...Same word...same meaning...all means all!



Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Why taste death for every man if Jesus only died for the elect?


2 Corinthians 5:14-15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

If Jesus only died for the elect, why did he die for all?


John 1:6-7
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

Why did God send John the Baptist to be a witness and bear witness of the Light so that all men might believe...if only the elect will be saved?


Acts 17:30-31
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Why would God want all men to repent if only the elect can be saved, and why is assurance available to all men in judgment because of Jesus' resurrection if only the elect can be saved?



Ephesians 3:8-9
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Why did Paul long to make known to all men the mystery of salvation by grace through faith if only the elect can be saved?


1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

(Who "will have" all men to be saved)...
θέλω thelo (thel'-o) v.
1. to determine, i.e. choose or prefer
2. (by implication) to wish, i.e. be inclined to

If it's God's wish for all men to be saved, why would he only offer salvation to the elect?


1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

If Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection gives him the special title of being Saviour to all men, why didn't it specify the elect instead of "specially of those that believe"?


Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Is God dangling the carrot of salvation by grace through faith in front of the multitudes of those who aren't the elect? Is God keeping it just out of reach...teasing them? No, God's grace is offered to all.

:thblisshe5: Praise the Lord!

Okay...I'll stop now...

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1Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Does "all men" mean "all men" in the first clause, but not the second?

Certainly in the first case, judgment came upon all men to condemnation to the extent that no-one apart from Jesus is excluded from condemnation. As Jesus said: he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John affirmed this: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

OTOH are any excluded from the second "all?" by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. Do all receive the free gift? Are all justified & receive the free gift of eternal life? Evidently not.

The scope of the two "alls" is different. This is not a "calvinistic" argument, nor "anti-calvinist" question. All who are lost & condemned excludes non-one. All who are saved does not include those who reject the Gospel.
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OTOH are any excluded from the second "all?" by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. Do all receive the free gift? Are all justified & receive the free gift of eternal life? Evidently not.



I think it's important to point out that it was the "free gift" of eternal life that came upon all men...not the actual justification. The free gift leads unto justification. The free gift is there for anyone...it just has to be accepted, and those who do accept the free gift recieve it unto justification.
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Consider: And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. Is "all" everyone who every lived, as in Rom. 5, who were condemned as a result of Adam's sin? No - it is too late for generations of dead sinners.

Is it everyone from then on? No, because many of those who heard the Gospel rejected him & were not drawn to him, & many have not heard the Gospel.

What did he mean by "all?" The context tells us - 20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast: 21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.

Jesus answers the question by explaining that by his death, he will destroy Satan's power & open the Gospel for all - not just the Jews: 23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. .....
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

All are not drawn to Jesus: 37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

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Perhaps a practical example of 'all' will help this discussion.

If we have Oreo cookies, and I eat them 'all', have I eaten 'all' the Oreo cookies?

Yes, if you are referring to 'all' the Oreo cookies in the house.

No, if you are referring to 'all' the Oreo cookies that exist, regardless of location.


This is the way such words as all, every, each, any, etc., must be considered, in profane life and Holy Bible. The answer as to which it is, 'all' with no exception, or 'all' with an exception (or qualifier, or distinction, whatever term conveys to the individual), must be answered from the verse, immediate context, and remote context (or scope) of the scriptures. In Romans 5:18, the context, both immediate and remote, shows the first 'all' has a singular exception, Jesus Christ. The second 'all', from the immediate and remote context, is shown to be those who are justified. The unjust are not the just, the unjustified are not the justified.

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Romans 8:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. When Adam sinned, judgement came upon every single "man", EVEN Jesus Christ. Why? because the "man" Jesus Christ, indeed suffered the judgement and penalty of sin and DIED just like Adam and every other man who is under the Curse.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Here the wording changes to "many". Unlike verse 18 in which "all" suffered death, in verse 19 not all were made sinners. One single "man" was not made a sinner; and that was Jesus Christ. And it only says "many" will be made righteous, because "all" will not accept the free gift. I can offer you a free gift and if you refuse it, that still doesn't change the fact that it was a free gift....it was yours for the taking.

According to Strongs Concordance, the first "all" was taken from the exact same Greek word as the second "all" so, from that, I would confirm that both "alls" mean the same thing.

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Is God dangling the carrot of salvation by grace through faith in front of the multitudes of those who aren't the elect? Is God keeping it just out of reach...teasing them? No, God's grace is offered to all.

:thblisshe5: Praise the Lord!

Okay...I'll stop now...


I had to shorten your post but this is the preponderance of Gospel I was talking about. Christ on earth was for every sin and every sinner on the face of the earth yesterday, today, and tomorrow. It is man's choice to accept or reject it.
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Romans 8:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. When Adam sinned, judgement came upon every single "man", EVEN Jesus Christ. Why? because the "man" Jesus Christ, indeed suffered the judgement and penalty of sin and DIED just like Adam and every other man who is under the Curse.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Here the wording changes to "many". Unlike verse 18 in which "all" suffered death, in verse 19 not all were made sinners. One single "man" was not made a sinner; and that was Jesus Christ. And it only says "many" will be made righteous, because "all" will not accept the free gift. I can offer you a free gift and if you refuse it, that still doesn't change the fact that it was a free gift....it was yours for the taking.

According to Strongs Concordance, the first "all" was taken from the exact same Greek word as the second "all" so, from that, I would confirm that both "alls" mean the same thing.


Why would you "like" this Trell?

I just basically said Jesus suffered the penalty of death for every man and that the free gift of salvation is available to ALL for the taking.. Not just as select few.
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John 12:37-40

King James Version (KJV)


37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

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