Jump to content
Online Baptist Community
  • Newest Sermon Entry

    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Total Inability...withou Excuse


Recommended Posts

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Lets see, no one gets to God, except though Jesus.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

One of Mr. Grahams beliefs is, that there will be people in heaven that never heard the name Christ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Lets see, no one gets to God, except though Jesus.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

One of Mr. Grahams beliefs is, that there will be people in heaven that never heard the name Christ.

That is a growing belief among many. Some say that if a heathen in Africa, China or elsewhere who believes there is a God, a Creator, even though he's never heard of Jesus, will be saved because he believed God existed.

Along these same lines many say if someone in a false religion is "sincere" about seeking God then they will go to heaven. According to that view, any Mormon, Muslim, Wiccan or other occults and false religionist would be granted salvation simply because they were "sincere" in wanting to find God.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Romans 1 indisputably establishes the Biblical ("calvinistic") doctrine of total depravity, & that they are without excuse for their sin. Does it also teach that people, seeing the invisible things of God in creation, are free to repent & turn to God? Paul said to the pagan Athenians:

24
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth n
ot
in temples made with hands;

......

27
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be n
ot
far from every one of us:


Is there, therefore, a way of salvation for repentant sinners apart from the Gospel of Christ? Is there no condemnation for those who have not heard the Gospel of Christ & therefore cannot believe in him of whom they have not heard? If the revelation of God's being in the light of creation renders mankind without excuse, must it also provide the means of salvation?

Up to a point we can make logical deductions from Scripture, as the OP does, but our deductions MUST be constrained by Scripture. That is where the anticalvinists fail in their logic - they make their own deductions from their (mis)understanding of Reformed doctrine.

What did Jesus mean when he said:

Mat. 11:
25
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because
thou hast hid these things from the wise and prude
nt
, and hast revealed them u
nt
o babes.

26
Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

27
All things are delivered u
nt
o me of my Father: and
no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

28
Come u
nt
o me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


John 6:
44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath se
nt
me draw him
: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh u
nt
o me.


John 16:
8
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgme
nt
:

9
Of sin, because they believe n
ot
on me;

10
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11
Of judgme
nt
, because the prince of this world is judged.


The universal sinfulness of man is clear, as is his desperate need of salvation. Does sinfulness, & need, & inexcusable guilt, imply the ability to repent & believe with the Holy Spirit convincing sinners of their state? That you need to establish from Scripture if you are to make a convincing case for guilty sinners to be able to believe apart from the work of the Holy Spirit.


That is a strawman argument. I did not try to make a case for sinners beleiving "apart from the Holy Spirit". Absolutely not. On the contrary, the verse says God hath "showed" it unto them. He did it Himself. And as to "drawing" of the Holy Spirit, the Lord Jesus Himself said" and I if I be lifted up...will draw all men unto me." Friend, Jesus was indeed "lifted up" and He did exactly what He said he would do because His Holy Spirit is in this world right now drawing all men. Not only that but HE HIMSELF, the Lord Jesus Christ was the self-same one who CREATED this world and all that is in it where the verse says that God SHOWED His eternal power and Godhead in the creation. It is God, who has made himself, His power and His eternal Godhead known to man and done all of the drawing. THAT is why no one will have an excuse.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist


That is a strawman argument. I did not try to make a case for sinners beleiving "apart from the Holy Spirit". Absolutely not. On the contrary, the verse says God hath "showed" it unto them. He did it Himself. And as to "drawing" of the Holy Spirit, the Lord Jesus Himself said" and I if I be lifted up...will draw all men unto me." Friend, Jesus was indeed "lifted up" and He did exactly what He said he would do because His Holy Spirit is in this world right now drawing all men. Not only that but HE HIMSELF, the Lord Jesus Christ was the self-same one who CREATED this world and all that is in it where the verse says that God SHOWED His eternal power and Godhead in the creation. It is God, who has made himself, His power and His eternal Godhead known to man and done all of the drawing. THAT is why no one will have an excuse.

In light of this how do we reconcile the fact God knows what would bring each person to salvation in Christ yet He doesn't bring that about in everyones life?

How do we biblically address this when confronted with this?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

In light of this how do we reconcile the fact God knows what would bring each person to salvation in Christ yet He doesn't bring that about in everyones life?

How do we biblically address this when confronted with this?


God has provided the Sacrifice for Sin, the drawing of the Holy Spirit, everything needed for salvation God has thoroughly finished. ONly...He has left one thing to us....BELEIVE. The Bible says that "faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". Do you place your faith in Allah, Buddah, finances, evolution, or simply your self? Do you put your faith in a church membership, a baptism, or even that "prayer" you repeated but didn't believe what you were repeating? God wants our faith to be placed in the Lord Jesus Christ. Believing on Jesus is not a work. Edited by heartstrings
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Just to address the "God of mercy that searches the heart of every man and judges according to accountability"...

In Hosea 13, we see this decree by God:
Hosea 13:16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Now, in the Law, God declared:
Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

So, if every man is accountable for his own sins, how come the infants were put to death? Surely they must have sinned, for God had already decreed that the children would not be put to death for their father's sins.


I was waiting for someone to bring up this point. You could also use the flood as an example. Many "innocents" died there too. By innocents I refer to children. You will note that I stated that God's character throughout the ENTIRE bible reflects His mercy and does so far more than it reflects His wrath.Yes we do see a wrathful, jealous and vengeful God when it comes to sin. Note that God does not command that the children be put to death in Hosea, He just states that they will be - this is the nature of war. Some believe in the "age of accountability" for children, but like I said in my earlier post, it's a difficult one and the Word does not give an exact reference to children and how accountable they are. As much as I fear and respect God's wrath, I believe in His long suffering and mercy.

But back to topic - The CONDITION for salvation is the recipients BELIEVING in the finished work of Christ. God put grace in place so that none could boast on their own strength and He put the condition in place so that none would have an excuse. We must steer clear of those that would use a few verses to try and subjugate the entire Word of God when the entire Word of God attests to mans ability to make his own choices and bear the consequences thereof.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I was waiting for someone to bring up this point. You could also use the flood as an example. Many "innocents" died there too. By innocents I refer to children. You will note that I stated that God's character throughout the ENTIRE bible reflects His mercy and does so far more than it reflects His wrath.Yes we do see a wrathful, jealous and vengeful God when it comes to sin. Note that God does not command that the children be put to death in Hosea, He just states that they will be - this is the nature of war. Some believe in the "age of accountability" for children, but like I said in my earlier post, it's a difficult one and the Word does not give an exact reference to children and how accountable they are. As much as I fear and respect God's wrath, I believe in His long suffering and mercy.

But back to topic - The CONDITION for salvation is the recipients BELIEVING in the finished work of Christ. God put grace in place so that none could boast on their own strength and He put the condition in place so that none would have an excuse. We must steer clear of those that would use a few verses to try and subjugate the entire Word of God when the entire Word of God attests to mans ability to make his own choices and bear the consequences thereof.
Actually, according to the Word of God none that died in the flood were innocent.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Actually, according to the Word of God none that died in the flood were innocent.



Many "innocents" died there too. By innocents I refer to children.


What in the above statement did you not understand? You have an amazing knack of taking peoples posts and twisting them. No where did I state that any were innocent of sin - the term referred to unaccountable by adult standards not biblical. Besides, I have yet to find in the Word where it says that children are accountable and held guilty of sin and though it does say that we are all born in sin it also says this:

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

And this:

1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. - Sanctified through the faith of the parent! A DIFFERENT SALVATION FOR CHILDREN that are not yet of an age to understand the doctrine of salvation - prove otherwise!

Explain that?

And back to topic:

1Co 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

What about the words EVERY MAN and EVERY ONE do they not understand? Verse in context to salvation - read the whole chapter!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

God has provided the Sacrifice for Sin, the drawing of the Holy Spirit, everything needed for salvation God has thoroughly finished. ONly...He has left one thing to us....BELEIVE. The Bible says that "faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". Do you place your faith in Allah, Buddah, finances, evolution, or simply your self? Do you put your faith in a church membership, a baptism, or even that "prayer" you repeated but didn't believe what you were repeating? God wants our faith to be placed in the Lord Jesus Christ. Believing on Jesus is not a work.

I agree but think perhaps you missed the point of my question.

What about the multiple millions who never heard of Jesus? How were they to have opportunity for salvation if they never heard of Christ or the Gospel?

More directly to the specific question, since God knows what it would take in each persons life for them to be born again in Christ, why does He move so in some lives but not in others?

For myself, I typically answer that God's ways are not our ways and we can't know His thoughts. I'm content to trust God knows what He's doing. However, that answer doesn't satisfy those lost souls, as well as many professing Christians, who ask about these matters.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I was waiting for someone to bring up this point. You could also use the flood as an example. Many "innocents" died there too. By innocents I refer to children. You will note that I stated that God's character throughout the ENTIRE bible reflects His mercy and does so far more than it reflects His wrath.Yes we do see a wrathful, jealous and vengeful God when it comes to sin. Note that God does not command that the children be put to death in Hosea, He just states that they will be - this is the nature of war. Some believe in the "age of accountability" for children, but like I said in my earlier post, it's a difficult one and the Word does not give an exact reference to children and how accountable they are. As much as I fear and respect God's wrath, I believe in His long suffering and mercy.

But back to topic - The CONDITION for salvation is the recipients BELIEVING in the finished work of Christ. God put grace in place so that none could boast on their own strength and He put the condition in place so that none would have an excuse. We must steer clear of those that would use a few verses to try and subjugate the entire Word of God when the entire Word of God attests to mans ability to make his own choices and bear the consequences thereof.

God did command the Israelites to kill every man, woman and child of several "ites" when they conquered the Promised Land.

When we look at the law God handed down for the governing of Israel, children who are rebellious are commanded to be stoned. No age for the children is given which leaves it open that at whatever age the children are horribly rebellious they are responsible for not obeying and honouring their parents under penalty of death.

Also, with regards to all the rest of the law for governing Israel it should be noted there are no exceptions made for those of certain younger ages as is the case in the modern Western world. Even in the Western world, in years gone by, children and adults were both held to the same laws and penalties. If a child commited murder, was found guilty, they were put to death.

God's thoughts are so much higher than mine that I can't grasp all these matters. Nowhere does Scripture say that anyone goes to heaven without being born again in Christ, not even children. Nowhere does Scripture say that aborted babies, babies who are stillborn, children who die young (or anyone else for that matter) have a guaranteed ticket to heaven. Scripture does say that all are born in sin.

Since Scripture isn't clear on these matters I simply trust God knows best even if He doesn't share with us all we would like to know right now.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

What in the above statement did you not understand? You have an amazing knack of taking peoples posts and twisting them. No where did I state that any were innocent of sin - the term referred to unaccountable by adult standards not biblical. Besides, I have yet to find in the Word where it says that children are accountable and held guilty of sin and though it does say that we are all born in sin it also says this:

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

And this:

1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. - Sanctified through the faith of the parent! A DIFFERENT SALVATION FOR CHILDREN that are not yet of an age to understand the doctrine of salvation - prove otherwise!

Explain that?

And back to topic:

1Co 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

What about the words EVERY MAN and EVERY ONE do they not understand? Verse in context to salvation - read the whole chapter!

From everything I've read and heard preached, the Corinthians 7:14 verse simply means the children are legitimate (they are born to legally married parents even if one is an unbeliever) and the child has the opportunity to have at least one saved parent to share Christ with them. The child also benefits from the blessings and protections God bestows upon the believing parent. This verse has absolutely nothing to do with salvation coming from simply being born to a believer.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

From everything I've read and heard preached, the Corinthians 7:14 verse simply means the children are legitimate (they are born to legally married parents even if one is an unbeliever) and the child has the opportunity to have at least one saved parent to share Christ with them. The child also benefits from the blessings and protections God bestows upon the believing parent. This verse has absolutely nothing to do with salvation coming from simply being born to a believer.


Not sure I agree with you on this one John - sanctified is sanctified - meaning "Made or declared or believed to be holy; devoted to a deity or some religious ceremony or use" and Holy is Holy and we all know what that means and if the verse states "(1Co 7:14) For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." It says what it says, no hidden meanings or ambiguities.

It is a difficult one that God has chosen not to make clear as much as some doctrines and truths are made clear in the Word. I just choose to believe that we don't know everything and can not make a conclusion until we are 100% sure but until I get to heaven and find out that babies are in hell like the Catholics believe I will stand on God's mercy regarding this one.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Not sure I agree with you on this one John - sanctified is sanctified - meaning "Made or declared or believed to be holy; devoted to a deity or some religious ceremony or use" and Holy is Holy and we all know what that means and if the verse states "(1Co 7:14) For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." It says what it says, no hidden meanings or ambiguities.

It is a difficult one that God has chosen not to make clear as much as some doctrines and truths are made clear in the Word. I just choose to believe that we don't know everything and can not make a conclusion until we are 100% sure but until I get to heaven and find out that babies are in hell like the Catholics believe I will stand on God's mercy regarding this one.

If this meant the children were saved simply because one of their parents were saved then that would mean they were born saved (which, ironically, sounds very much similar to the Calvinist position) and they could never be lost. If such were the case, then they would never need personally accept Christ.

As we see in the verse, a child may be viewed as "unclean", meaning with regards to the law, being born a bastard child as opposed to one born "clean", being born to the married parents.

I've read several commentaries and heard a few sermons which touched upon this verse and all were in agreement there is no special means of salvation for a child born to a Christian parent. They all agreed this verse was simply stating the child was legitimate, not unclean, and would share in some of the blessings God bestows upon their believing parent.

Beyond that, I do agree that God has chosen not to give us full or complete information regarding the status of aborted babies, babies who die young, children who die while young. Do all get a free pass to heaven? Some? Are all destined for hell? Some? Does God have some other plan (some have speculated perhaps all who died as babies and children will populate a millinium earth where they will have the opportunity to accept or reject Christ)? I don't know because Scripture does not specify. Being a believer who fully trusts in God this doesn't bother me, but I know for some unbelievers and some professing Christians, this is a major issue.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

You are incarcerated in a condemned prison facility which my demolitions crew is preparing to destroy this afternoon. In the cell block where you are, each cell contains one inmate and without a key, his escape is totally impossible. Each inmate is TOTALLY UNABLE to escape his imminent destruction.. Now, as I personally clear the building, I go to each cell, unlock it, and release the occupant, but when I come to YOUR cell, I just ignore you and walk on by .

Any prisoner who fails to escape the building before the detonations begin, will be killed or at least severely injured. We are going to include this "severely injured" category because, unlike God, I don't have the capability of asking YOU any questions if you are dead. So, the explosions are over, the smoke and dust have cleared and when I come to your charred, demolished cell and find you mangled and barely breathing and ask: "Why did you not escape?" To which YOU reply; "you gave me no key...and you never even spoke to me". To which I reply: "you have no excuse"............

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

You are incarcerated in a condemned prison facility which my demolitions crew is preparing to destroy this afternoon. In the cell block where you are, each cell contains one inmate and without a key, his escape is totally impossible. Each inmate is TOTALLY UNABLE to escape his imminent destruction.. Now, as I personally clear the building, I go to each cell, unlock it, and release the occupant, but when I come to YOUR cell, I just ignore you and walk on by .

Any prisoner who fails to escape the building before the detonations begin, will be killed or at least severely injured. We are going to include this "severely injured" category because, unlike God, I don't have the capability of asking YOU any questions if you are dead. So, the explosions are over, the smoke and dust have cleared and when I come to your charred, demolished cell and find you mangled and barely breathing and ask: "Why did you not escape?" To which YOU reply; "you gave me no key...and you never even spoke to me". To which I reply: "you have no excuse"............

:icon_confused:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Not sure I agree with you on this one John - sanctified is sanctified - meaning "Made or declared or believed to be holy; devoted to a deity or some religious ceremony or use" and Holy is Holy and we all know what that means and if the verse states "(1Co 7:14) For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." It says what it says, no hidden meanings or ambiguities.

It is a difficult one that God has chosen not to make clear as much as some doctrines and truths are made clear in the Word. I just choose to believe that we don't know everything and can not make a conclusion until we are 100% sure but until I get to heaven and find out that babies are in hell like the Catholics believe I will stand on God's mercy regarding this one.


God has no grandchildren, not, no not one. When a child reaches the age of accountability, what ever that age may be for them, if they fail to accept Christ as Savior, they're doomed for hell. Whether their parents or parent is Christian or not. That is the doctrine of many churches, but its not a Bible doctrine, its commandment of man.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

In light of this how do we reconcile the fact God knows what would bring each person to salvation in Christ yet He doesn't bring that about in everyones life?

How do we biblically address this when confronted with this?


Free will, Jesus knocks, yet forces Himself on none one. Each human makes their own choice.

Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

If, He forces some, them that would take away all free will.

Some refer to this as the last invitation in the Bible.

Re 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Clearly, its a personal decision, for whosoever will.

That is one reason Calvin's teaching is clearly false teaching, teaching doctrine of men for commandments of God.

Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Scripture says "whosever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
and
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father but by Me".

Given that, I find don't understand how one can say all babies automatically go to heaven when they die. All have to go through Jesus.

The wicked go forth from the womb as soon as they be born speaking lies.

Do some babies call upon the Lord? If we could understand the gurgles, we might know for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recent Achievements

    • Napsterdad earned a badge
      Thumb's Up
    • Napsterdad earned a badge
      Reacting Well
    • Napsterdad earned a badge
      First Post
    • StandInTheGap earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Mark C went up a rank
      Rookie
  • Tell a friend

    Love Online Baptist Community? Tell a friend!
  • Members

  • Popular Now

  • Recent Status Updates

    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 0 replies
    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 1 reply
    • Razor

      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
      Peter could have had a ham sandwich in Acts 2, but he did not know it till later, by revelation. But this has nothing to do with 1John 2;23 and those 10 added words in italics. Where did they get them? Did the violate Pro. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Where did they get this advance revelation? Was it from man, God or the devil?
        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
      BUT THE LAW OF MOSES DID DEMAND MY LIFE
      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
      BUT A DREAM HE RECEIVED ENDED ALL FEARS
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
      BUT HEROD THAT DEVIL SOUGHT FOR HIS SOUL
      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
  • Topics

×
×
  • Create New...