The Fruit of Hylesism

[John81]

Irishman,

It is not me that is naive. Hyles was a man of God until he got so full of himself and his numbers. God is clear that we are to mark those that are heretics and Dr. Hyles in the latter part of his life was responsible for a gospel that is not based on the Word of God. Just recently, Hyles's Bus director spoke at our church and he gave numerous examples of people "getting saved". In every example, I turned to my wife and said that what he explained was not a salvation experience, it was just a prayer.

I know men who have graduated from Hyles that will tell you that in bus meetings and soul winning training it was all about getting people to pray without concern for whether they were repentant.

I could give example after example and it will not convince you, but the truth is clear that Jack Hyles is directly responsible for thousands of people "praying" and having a false assurance that they will end up in Heaven, but unfortunately they will end up in Hell.

I will continue to fight this easy believism heresy as often as I can.

There have been several men who came out of the gates running a good race for Christ, only to take a wrong turn later in their ministry and finish the race poorly. Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell, just to name two others.

The scurge of "just repeat this prayer and you will go to heaven" has been one of the devils greatest tools. This totally unscriptural approach has led many to a false hope which also leads them to be unreceptive to the true Gospel.

Scripture is clear that we are to present the Gospel, wait upon the Holy Ghost to convict the lost, watch to see if they reject the conviction or are convicted unto repentance to salvation in Christ. Only those who are convicted unto repentance to salvation in Christ should we embrace as brothers/sisters in Christ with biblical assurance of heaven.

Those who fail to submit to the conviction of the Holy Ghost unto repentance to salvation in Christ we should not give the false hope they are yet saved by telling them to say a "sinners prayer".

[irishman]

I am afraid that, perhaps with the exception of one, many here are passing on what they have heard, and do not know first hand. I asked once if anyone had heard the Hyles soul winning plan--he did give the Gospel very clearly. His books were not copywritten, so anyone can have access to them. At "jackhyles.com" you will find a list of them. He had some strange ideas, but most preachers that I know seem to also have strange ideas, but his Gospel presentation did tell them that they were sinners, and that Christ paid the penalty for their sins. He also said it in many of his sermons which are also available online.

Pastorj, did you by chance come from the fff board? I think you will find many kindred spirits there, but probably not the Holy Spirit!! It is a group of rebels seeking to destroy the man of God, (and some had been kicked out of Hyles-Anderson college for various reasons)

[Pastorj]

Irishman,

I have never been to the fff board. I believe that the Bible is clear that Hyles' teaching on a number of doctrines, not just evangelism is false teaching. We could go on and on with this, but it will do no good.

Read through his book, I believe it is called, "Meet the Holy Spirit" (been a long time) and compare it to Scripture. You will find numerous errors in the book.

I do not make my judgments in this case lightly, but the Word of God is true and every man that contradicts is a liar and Jack Hyles deceived many.

[JerryNumbers]

We have a lady on this board that grew up in the Hyles church, she does not care for the man. I have exchanged PM's with her, & I know I would not care for him. Besides, his latter end was a total shipwreck.

[HappyChristian]

Brosmith, if you traveled with Bro. Boyd in '81 and '82, we may know each other. I can't remember the years I worked there, but my last was '84, so I'm sure I was there in summer '82. I cooked and worked with the campers, teaching, etc.

There is a lot of fallout from the teaching that emanated from Phoster Club. And the idolatry of parading the woman who "won" the most souls each year uplifts the person instead of Christ.

I know a number of Hyles graduates who are godly people. And I know a number who are not. When people graduate from a school, there will be good and bad regardless. But the truth remains that there is a problem with what is taught there re: salvation/sin. Our school was started because the kids we were sending over there for school were coming back with the idea that you could sin all you want, as long as you went soul-winning to even it out.

Yes, I know that came from the school. But it trickled down from the top...

edited to add: living not too far from them we deal with the fallout of people who got saved, and got saved, and got saved, and got saved (being baptized each time), over and over when they were kids (and even some as an adult). Again, that came from the bus, sunday school, etc. But it trickled down from the top....

[Wilchbla]

Jack Hyles is not responsible for anyone going to hell. They are responsible. The man may have gone about it wrong sometimes but he had a zeal for souls. That's more that can be said for most Christians. Unfortunately, he had a zeal for numbers too. All those guys from the Sword of the Lord seemed to be in a numbers competition to prove how "mighty with the Lord" they were. As a new convert I got to listen to a lot of Jack Hyles sermons and a lot of it did me good in helping me become a man. His problem was that he wasn't good with doctrine (paricularly eternal security) and sometimes would substitute some of his convuluted philosophies for the word of God and even poo-poo the meatier doctrines of the bible. But from reading the bible I figured this out. Also, his book Denim and Lace I found quite illuminating and helpful.

As far a "Easy Believism", I agree with Charles Ryrie, it is easy to believe and be saved.

[brosmith]

Anathema Maranatha!

You are calling a curse upon those who disagree with you?

By the way, that doesn't surprise me. Blind loyalty causes you not to be able to see the truth. Not even the God of the universe demands blind loyalty from His followers. But Jack Hyles did (and so did/does many others - I have seen it first hand). Let's all bow to the new god of the universe - Jack Hyles!

[Oldtimer]

Anathema Maranatha!

A new term for me. So, I had to look it up.

Is this correct?
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer%27s%20Corner/anathema_maranatha.htm

[John81]

Jack Hyles is not responsible for anyone going to hell. They are responsible. The man may have gone about it wrong sometimes but he had a zeal for souls. That's more that can be said for most Christians. Unfortunately, he had a zeal for numbers too. All those guys from the Sword of the Lord seemed to be in a numbers competition to prove how "mighty with the Lord" they were. As a new convert I got to listen to a lot of Jack Hyles sermons and a lot of it did me good in helping me become a man. His problem was that he wasn't good with doctrine (paricularly eternal security) and sometimes would substitute some of his convuluted philosophies for the word of God and even poo-poo the meatier doctrines of the bible. But from reading the bible I figured this out. Also, his book Denim and Lace I found quite illuminating and helpful.

As far a "Easy Believism", I agree with Charles Ryrie, it is easy to believe and be saved.

True, it is easy to believe and be saved, but only if done according to Scripture. When folks denounce "Easy Believism" they are referring to the practice of simply getting one to say a "sinners prayer" and then telling them they are saved and going to heaven. That too is easy to do but it's not biblical and gives the lost a false hope and most often hardens their heart to the Gospel.

While we are each responsible for our own determination with regards to Christ, we are also responsible for how we affect others in this regard. If we present a false gospel, if we give others a false hope of salvation, then we are responsible for that and the impact it has upon others.

Early in my Christian walk I learned some good stuff reading a few books by Kenneth and Gloria Copeland and I know a few people who came to Christ through their ministry, but I certainly wouldn't recommend them, hold them up as someone to learn from, and I absolutely wouldn't deny the bad they have done nor give the impression that somehow their good outweighs the bad. (to be clear, this paragraph isn't a specific reply to anyone, just a general comment)

[robmac68]

Not even the God of the universe demands blind loyalty from His followers. But Jack Hyles did (and so did/does many others - I have seen it first hand). Let's all bow to the new god of the universe - Jack Hyles!

Did Jack Hyles demand this blind loyalty? I do not know the answer to that question, but do have a personal opinion that points in another direction. I used to attend an IFB church in the Wheeling, WV area. The pastor is a grad from HAC and was a Joe Boyd boy sometime in the late 90's. I have heard Randy Taylor preach several times at this church and Joe Boyd had preached there also. One of my favorite pastors to listen to on the net is Jeff Owens who used to be a VP or President or a Dean of HAC. Of all these, I haven't heard much of a call, so to speak, to be a blind loyalist. But oh did I see it! In fact, if you aren't a blind loyalist, I don't believe you will ever be able to find a "colder" church to attend. When I left this church, the pastor came and visited me and wanted to know why. One of the things that came up during this 2 hour conversation was something he quoted from Joe Boyd. Bro. Boyd told him if he didn't learn the greek language, that at some point he will preach heresy. I about fell out of the pew when the pastor quoted this from the pulpit. I told this pastor that I personally believe the statement is incorrect because it was like saying God is only as strong as the greek language, and if that language were to disappear than so would God. This came from a church that believed the KJB was the preserved Word of God in our language. How can we believe that and believe we need to know greek. This was very contradicting to me. When I questioned something Bro. Boyd said, a look of part fear and part anger came on this pastor's face. It wasn't the anger that got my attention, but the FEAR. Where does this "fear" come from? Is it Biblical? I wasn't questioning whether Bro. Boyd was a man of God. I just disagreed with something he said.

My mom spent 30 years in the church that I am presently attending, (used to be American Baptist now is just Independant Baptist and pretty worldly). She has now been going to this IFB church since 1996. When she started there, one of the first things she did is change her belief on wearing pants. She immediately got rid of all her pants and now will only wear a dress. I questioned her on this and wondered why she changed. She said she was growing. I asked her why she didn't grow for 30 years at the American Baptist church. She has read her Bible daily as long as I can remember. We had 2 daily devotions the whole time I was growing up, one at breakfast and one before bed. We went to church 3 times a week no matter what. She answered the question by telling me that since the pastor didn't preach on this, that the Holy Spirit had been quenched in her. I told her that if her heart was open to learning, the Holy Spirit wouldn't want her to sin so He would have convicted her. She said , "no". If her pastor wasn't preaching it, the Holy Spirit is quenched and the Bible backs this up in a verse that questions "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:14 So are we to be "blind sheep"? I sincerely believe that the Holy Spirit will convict even if the preacher isn't preaching it. It has to do with our heart. My mom fully believes the pastor and his sermons and you do not question the man of God. This didn't come from a sermon or her being told that by a preacher. She believes it on her own. She didn't need Jack Hyles or anyone else. She also referenced something about "touching the man whose head is annointed" and this isn't just physical but with words or questions also. Who are we to question the man of God who is filled with the Spirit and preaching God's Word?

God Bless,
Rob

[John81]

Did Jack Hyles demand this blind loyalty? I do not know the answer to that question, but do have a personal opinion that points in another direction. I used to attend an IFB church in the Wheeling, WV area. The pastor is a grad from HAC and was a Joe Boyd boy sometime in the late 90's. I have heard Randy Taylor preach several times at this church and Joe Boyd had preached there also. One of my favorite pastors to listen to on the net is Jeff Owens who used to be a VP or President or a Dean of HAC. Of all these, I haven't heard much of a call, so to speak, to be a blind loyalist. But oh did I see it! In fact, if you aren't a blind loyalist, I don't believe you will ever be able to find a "colder" church to attend. When I left this church, the pastor came and visited me and wanted to know why. One of the things that came up during this 2 hour conversation was something he quoted from Joe Boyd. Bro. Boyd told him if he didn't learn the greek language, that at some point he will preach heresy. I about fell out of the pew when the pastor quoted this from the pulpit. I told this pastor that I personally believe the statement is incorrect because it was like saying God is only as strong as the greek language, and if that language were to disappear than so would God. This came from a church that believed the KJB was the preserved Word of God in our language. How can we believe that and believe we need to know greek. This was very contradicting to me. When I questioned something Bro. Boyd said, a look of part fear and part anger came on this pastor's face. It wasn't the anger that got my attention, but the FEAR. Where does this "fear" come from? Is it Biblical? I wasn't questioning whether Bro. Boyd was a man of God. I just disagreed with something he said.

My mom spent 30 years in the church that I am presently attending, (used to be American Baptist now is just Independant Baptist and pretty worldly). She has now been going to this IFB church since 1996. When she started there, one of the first things she did is change her belief on wearing pants. She immediately got rid of all her pants and now will only wear a dress. I questioned her on this and wondered why she changed. She said she was growing. I asked her why she didn't grow for 30 years at the American Baptist church. She has read her Bible daily as long as I can remember. We had 2 daily devotions the whole time I was growing up, one at breakfast and one before bed. We went to church 3 times a week no matter what. She answered the question by telling me that since the pastor didn't preach on this, that the Holy Spirit had been quenched in her. I told her that if her heart was open to learning, the Holy Spirit wouldn't want her to sin so He would have convicted her. She said , "no". If her pastor wasn't preaching it, the Holy Spirit is quenched and the Bible backs this up in a verse that questions "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:14 So are we to be "blind sheep"? I sincerely believe that the Holy Spirit will convict even if the preacher isn't preaching it. It has to do with our heart. My mom fully believes the pastor and his sermons and you do not question the man of God. This didn't come from a sermon or her being told that by a preacher. She believes it on her own. She didn't need Jack Hyles or anyone else. She also referenced something about "touching the man whose head is annointed" and this isn't just physical but with words or questions also. Who are we to question the man of God who is filled with the Spirit and preaching God's Word?

God Bless,
Rob

Unfortunately there are many out there who preach, teach and believe the pastor is above all others, virtually holding a position akin to the pope in the RCC. That's not biblical at all. The best pastors I have know take very seriously, with fear and trembling, the warning in Scripture with regards to teachers being held accountable for what they teach and how it affects the hearers.

Some pastors believe they are annointed to rule "their church" much in the way a mafia don rules his "family". Their word is law, their interpretation of Scripture is above questioning, everyone in the church should obey him fully, without question, and many believe their exaulted status enables them to "cover" their flock or "expose" anyone who dares question or challenge them to the forces of darkness by removing their "cover" from them.

The best of pastors recognize their position in Christ, recognize they are but a lost sinner saved by grace, called to serve the Lord as a pastor to tend to Christ's sheep. They recognize the high standards they will be held to which helps to keep them humble and ever relying upon the Lord.

[irishman]

You are calling a curse upon those who disagree with you?

By the way, that doesn't surprise me. Blind loyalty causes you not to be able to see the truth. Not even the God of the universe demands blind loyalty from His followers. But Jack Hyles did (and so did/does many others - I have seen it first hand). Let's all bow to the new god of the universe - Jack Hyles!

Blind loyalty? It is interesting that someone coins a term and it catches on like wildfire! I have heard the term "grace giving" that some rebellious man made up and ran with, and there are many others, including "easy believism" To accuse someone of not properly giving the Gospel implies that we are the only group that does it right, and the Pharisee's would rejoice in this. I am amazed at how many have all the answers here, and don't mind criticizing a man that has outworked, out won, and out witted many of his accusers.

By the way, isn't faith "blind loyalty"? We only know what we know by faith, and we believe it by faith We are all biased, whether we admit it or not; we lean one way or the other, and are convinced it is right and the rest are wrong. God have mercy on us! If faith is "blind loyalty" then perhaps you are blindly serving the Lord! Think about it.

[robmac68]

By the way, isn't faith "blind loyalty"? We only know what we know by faith, and we believe it by faith We are all biased, whether we admit it or not; we lean one way or the other, and are convinced it is right and the rest are wrong. God have mercy on us! If faith is "blind loyalty" then perhaps you are blindly serving the Lord! Think about it.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb.11:1 When all I had was hope, I was blind. Now I have the Holy Spirit living in me, I am no longer blind, I have the evidence.
I don't know about the term "blind loyalty" and whether it is catching on, but I do believe my mom is blindly following a man and not opening her eyes and heart to the teaching of the Holy Spirit. I do praise the Lord that she is in an IFB church because I believe that IFB churches are closer doctrinally to the Bible than alot of other religions. I do not believe, though, that IFBs are correct in all things. When I questioned something Joe Boyd said, I felt I wasn't questioning Joe Boyd himself, just one particular statement. In fact, I love it when I have a question about what a pastor says because the first thing I do is go to the Word of God and study. I feel sorry for my mom because I think she just swallows whatever the pastor feeds her and misses out on some good Bible study.
I don't know enough about Jack Hyles to form an opinion, but, if he is everything you say about him, Praise the Lord for Jack Hyles!
God Bless,
Rob

[robmac68]

I remember something now. Several years ago I made myself a binder on soul winning. It was from sermons, writings, ideas and such that I found on the internet. Alot of the stuff I printed out was from Jack Hyles. I have read over this manual many times and even preached from it on one occasion when I filled in one Sunday at the church I will start to pastor on May 6th. I have found nothing Scripturally wrong with what I got from Jack Hyles writings and sermons. I was in the car with my brother-in-law, who is a missionary in Mongolia, and he told me he didn't care much for Jack Hyles. I about choked. Being in a chuch that had a grad from HAC and alot of visiting preachers linked to HAC, I had never heard anything bad about the man. I asked what on earth he was talking about. He told me that towards the end of his life, Jack Hyles changed his view on asking forgiveness for sins at the time of conversion. He felt by "asking" you were doing something. If you were doing something, it was a work. We are not saved by works so this was wrong to do. All you need to do is accept Christ as Saviour. So repenting and asking is not to be done because it is a work. I do not know if this is true in that it came from Jack Hyles. All I can say is I did not go home and throw away my manual. I like and believe what I got from Jack Hyles. I also did not go home and do research on him and all he said. I have to be accountable for my actions/beliefs, not those of Jack Hyles.

[irishman]

I remember something now. Several years ago I made myself a binder on soul winning. It was from sermons, writings, ideas and such that I found on the internet. Alot of the stuff I printed out was from Jack Hyles. I have read over this manual many times and even preached from it on one occasion when I filled in one Sunday at the church I will start to pastor on May 6th. I have found nothing Scripturally wrong with what I got from Jack Hyles writings and sermons. I was in the car with my brother-in-law, who is a missionary in Mongolia, and he told me he didn't care much for Jack Hyles. I about choked. Being in a chuch that had a grad from HAC and alot of visiting preachers linked to HAC, I had never heard anything bad about the man. I asked what on earth he was talking about. He told me that towards the end of his life, Jack Hyles changed his view on asking forgiveness for sins at the time of conversion. He felt by "asking" you were doing something. If you were doing something, it was a work. We are not saved by works so this was wrong to do. All you need to do is accept Christ as Saviour. So repenting and asking is not to be done because it is a work. I do not know if this is true in that it came from Jack Hyles. All I can say is I did not go home and throw away my manual. I like and believe what I got from Jack Hyles. I also did not go home and do research on him and all he said. I have to be accountable for my actions/beliefs, not those of Jack Hyles.

Good post robmac, I too have read and heard many of his sermons, but nowhere do I see him "lording it over" anyone. He had rules in his church for the sake of the preaching, and enforced them, but as to many of the other claims men have made here, they are speculative, and many of them have not gotten first-hand his teaching. You cannot always go by what church members have done or said, they usually add their own sway to his words, but I have heard his two hour soul winning course, and he definitely promoted the Gospel. He gave a lot of tips that pertain to soul winning to (hygiene, going in two's, knocking authoritively on the door, etc.) But he did present a good, clear Gospel. if he changed his thinking on something in his late years, I am not aware of it, although I did not hang on his every word. I still believe in following the Lord, and not the man. Incidently I have nearly all of Spurgeons sermons and writings (on cd) and books too, but I cannot say I am a "Spurgeon-ite". I like many preachers, but I do not like people passing along gossip that they had heard and do not know first-hand, especially about great men.