Why do we use wimpy, enemy friendly terms?

[HappyChristian]

Wow, that's the way it goes in Christian circles, everyone gets, not everyone, just some, bent out of shape when someone disagree with them or they disagree with someone. If you disagree with me, great, just ell me you disagree, & why. I don't know who you are referencing here, but if you are referencing my post, I most certainly am not bent out of shape. If you feel someone is disagreeing with you and not saying so, perhaps you should say so yourself...

But as for me, I refuse to copy from, copy after, nightclubs, bars, & drinking establishments of this world. And if I ever find that I have, I will quickly as I can change, getting rid of what I copied after them. And if someone informs me I am copying after nightclubs, bars, & drinking establishments & such, I will thank them for pointing it out. No-one asked you to copy after anything from bars, etc. And it's great that you will change if someone points out something to you. That is a good thing, no doubt about it. But you are not the Holy Spirit, and just because you tell someone they ought not do something because you don't agree with what they are doing doesn't mean they have to stop...

That stated I hold to what I've stated about Ladies Night out. Why. I do not want anything at church to remind any worldly person of nightclubs, bars, & drinking establishments of this world were sin prevails. And that is very commendable. I doubt there would be anyone here who would want that. But, there again, there are things that people do think of as worldly in churches. Some people think it's a sin to have a piano or an organ - because those are used in nightclubs and bars. Do we get rid of those?

Oh, I learned about "Ladies Night Out," from advertising in newspapers, not from going to nightclubs, bars, & drinking establishments. And when the local 1st Baptist Church started having their "Ladies Night Out," the 1st thing that hit my mind was, nightclubs, bars, & drinking establishments that uses that phrase as a way to get more women into their establishments on slow week nights, in order to get more men into their establishments , so they can sell more liquor, & more sin can take place in their establishments . And yes, from what I hear, if the , nightclubs, bars, & drinking establishments can get the women in their business, many men will follow right behind them. Ladies Night at bars is definitely a way to drum up business - no-one would argue that. And it's too bad that when the church you referenced began having theirs that was your first thought. I'm sure the church didn't intend for that to be the case.



Ro 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

As for me there is no doubt in my mind that copying off the nightclubs, bars, drinking establishments, of this world, ladies night out, is wrong, If someone is copying nightclubs, yes. But you are wrong to assume that is what is going on. Because you cannot read the hearts, and you have just jumped to conclusion that the churches who use that term are doing it for worldly purposes. That is not righteous judgment.

Someone mentioned, I don't remember who did, born again being from the Catholics, a term we picked up from the Roman Catholic Church {RCC} its not, it is a Bible term, & even a KJ Bible term, in fact Catholics do not believe one must be born again, that's according to many of them that I talked to. No, actually, no-one said we picked up the term born again from the catholics. What I said was that the RCC had co-opted the term. In other words, they use it now. Yes, it is a Bible term and that was the whole point (John, I nowhere indicated we shouldn't use the term. Obviously my post was not comprehended by everyone). THEY took a Bible term and added it to their terminology. Using the logic that has been shown in some of the posts in this thread, we should then quit using it because it has a different meaning now.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

So its true, the ones not born again, will never enter heaven, just as Jesus taught us, & its aslo true its not a RCC term, it is a solid Bible term.. Please read posts more carefully. I said it was a Bible term. One that they adopted (whether any that you talk to use it or not, they do use it and teach it).

Again, as Christians, we are to judge righteous judgment. That is something that isn't real common amongst Christians anymore, because we are too busy being little holy spirits. Instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to work in people's lives, we decide how they must live and proclaim them as sinners if they don't do it our way, which of course is always the Bible way. Not.

Yep, we need to be careful of the things we say.

[John81]

Is it a "disease" or is it SIN?

It seems very popular in today's Christendom to call sin and rebellion a disease.

For instance, using the term "alcoholic" for "drunkard" and "alcoholism" for "drunkenness".

The Bible never uses the word "alcoholic" or "alcoholism"....but it does say that "drunkards" will not inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 6:10) and in Galatians 5:21 "drunkenness" is listed as one of the "works of the flesh" and "they that do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God". Drunkards are sinners and drunkenness is a sin...not a "disease"....regeneration is the solution....not recovery!

Good additions! It's true that many sins are today called some form of "disease", such as drunkenness and drug use.

Both of these are called some form of disease and drunks and druggies are called addicts, not because they have addicted themselves to these things, but as if being an addict is a disease and they just can't help themselves.

That's not what Scripture teaches.

[Old Regular]

Sin is sin no matter what it is called. And we should rebuke it in high places.

[heartstrings]

^Proverbs6:16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

¹⁷A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

¹⁸An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

¹⁹A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.Brethren,

^{You're right, sin is sin, and we should rebuke it....God's way..........}
When we Independent Baptists look down our sanctimonious nose at another sinner, and can't wait to run our mouth about brother so-and-so, or even take the liberty to 'embellish" that story just a little, God says He hates it; It's an abomination to him. And how could that possibly qualify as "shedding innocent blood"? An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbour:....... Proverbs 11:9....that's how. We look down on the sin of the drunkards and the homosexuals, and while those things truly are bad, WE allow ourselves to fall into dolng more "respectable" sins like pride and gossiping and sowing discord among brethren which are abominable things that God HATES.


if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Galatians 6:1 If we are doing this one verse, it's impossible to be doing the four above.

Edited March 20, 2012 by heartstrings

[John81]

Sin is sin no matter what it is called. And we should rebuke it in high places.

Trying to help a brother recognize and overcome sin in their lives, or even pointing out to the lost that they have sin in their lives, isn't very poplular today and often gets one attacked, even by professing Christians.

Calling drunkenness, drug abuse and homosexuality sin and trying to help folks realize it's sin, to help them come to repent of the sin and overcome the sin through Christ, is today often viewed as attacking the person, being mean-spirited, and even hateful.

It's bad enough the lost world takes such a view, but so much worse when professing Christians call hateful, the most loving thing a person can do for ones caught up in such sins.

[heartstrings]

Yes, but when we are allowing some of the seven abominations in our own lives, we have no power to do it in the right way, and then wonder why we are ineffective.

[JerryNumbers]

Ro 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Its possible for one thing to be a sin for one, yet not for another.

But of course when we become enlightened on the matter, we should cease.

The problem comes in, after we get use to doing something, accepting it as OK, especially getting use to it in our churches, when someone comes along trying to show us were we are wrong, we refuse to listen, & sometimes even getting a bit hostile with the person that is actually only trying to help us.

I notice Bro. Cloud gets brow beaten many times, many of them that do so, seem to be fighting against their worse enemy, instead of having a conversation with a fellow brother in Christ who is trying to help them. Its almost as if hate arises when a fellow brother ties to point out a wrong, instead of being thankful that they care enough to try & help.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I notice Bro. Cloud gets brow beaten many times, many of them that do so, seem to be fighting against their worse enemy, instead of having a conversation with a fellow brother in Christ who is trying to help them. Its almost as if hate arises when a fellow brother ties to point out a wrong, instead of being thankful that they care enough to try & help.

I also get brow-beat by many when I present the truth.

The sad thing is, often it is on "Christian" Forums I am a member of.

[John81]

Yes, but when we are allowing some of the seven abominations in our own lives, we have no power to do it in the right way, and then wonder why we are ineffective.

No doubt we are to deal with sin in our own lives as well. However, even if we haven't compltely eliminated a sin from our lives that doesn't mean we can't talk to another about the same sin in their lives. Sometimes as we share our struggles we find help in ridding that sin from our lives.

We are called to pursue holiness in our own lives. If we fail to strive for holiness in our own lives then we not only let ourselves down, we can limit our effectiveness in helping others. This is especially true if a certain sin is rather public.

One of the aspects of Christianity is that we are to bear one anothers burdens, help one another along. Christianity isn't meant to be a solo religion. We are to grow in Christ individually yet we are to grow in Christ together as well.

[John81]

Ro 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Its possible for one thing to be a sin for one, yet not for another.

But of course when we become enlightened on the matter, we should cease.

The problem comes in, after we get use to doing something, accepting it as OK, especially getting use to it in our churches, when someone comes along trying to show us were we are wrong, we refuse to listen, & sometimes even getting a bit hostile with the person that is actually only trying to help us.

I notice Bro. Cloud gets brow beaten many times, many of them that do so, seem to be fighting against their worse enemy, instead of having a conversation with a fellow brother in Christ who is trying to help them. Its almost as if hate arises when a fellow brother ties to point out a wrong, instead of being thankful that they care enough to try & help.

One of the most extreme cases of getting attacked for trying to help some see sin in their lives has come from pointing out the worldly music they listen to. Wow! Talk about instantly angry, sometimes hateful! They seem to take that extra personal and then scream on about "my music".

Even when you point out to them the lyrics which contain cussing, unwed sex, drinking, pointless violence and such, they are so blinded they refuse to see it.

I've often wondered just how much some people have opened themselves to the devil with such music and if that isn't part of the reason for the very hostile reactions.

[1Timothy115]

I also get brow-beat by many when I present the truth.

The sad thing is, often it is on "Christian" Forums I am a member of.

Yes, I've noticed that is true. I checked you out on some other sites. Yes, I peeked.

I may not agree with you on some faith practices but, I will be glad to be sharing heaven with you one day. The Lord will take care of all the faith practice when we get there. See you just inside the Eastern Gate over there.

[Anon]

Ro 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Its possible for one thing to be a sin for one, yet not for another. Right!!!!

But of course when we become enlightened on the matter, we should cease. Enlightened by whom? God? Or you?

Actually, no...God says that there are cases that are not set forth in Scripture that you use your own conscience to decide. One of them is the celebrating of holidays. Another of them is eating of meat. There is no "being enlightened and changing your ways" according to the Bible, in some of these personal issues, if not otherwise set forth in Scripture. If you feel its wrong to say "Ladies' Night Out", Jerry, then you should not use that term, because to you it brings thoughts of bars and nightclubs.

Guess what...to me, I do not think of bars and nightclubs. I think of Daddies babysitting the kids while Mommies go out for a few hours with each other and have fellowship and shop or eat out. God says that for me, it is not sin, then, to say "Ladies' Night Out "because my conscience and motives are not wrong. For you, yes, the Bible says it offends your conscience and for you it is wrong.

But for me it is not...even though you disagree, there is no Bible verse that tells me I'm wrong for using that term.

[John81]

Actually, no...God says that there are cases that are not set forth in Scripture that you use your own conscience to decide. One of them is the celebrating of holidays. Another of them is eating of meat. There is no "being enlightened and changing your ways" according to the Bible, in some of these personal issues, if not otherwise set forth in Scripture. If you feel its wrong to say "Ladies' Night Out", Jerry, then you should not use that term, because to you it brings thoughts of bars and nightclubs.

Guess what...to me, I do not think of bars and nightclubs. I think of Daddies babysitting the kids while Mommies go out for a few hours with each other and have fellowship and shop or eat out. God says that for me, it is not sin, then, to say "Ladies' Night Out "because my conscience and motives are not wrong. For you, yes, the Bible says it offends your conscience and for you it is wrong.

But for me it is not...even though you disagree, there is no Bible verse that tells me I'm wrong for using that term.

That would more likely depend upon how public the "ladies night out" is. If it's something just known to yourself, then certainly that's all it pertains to. If it's a public statement then it certainly runs the risk of being misunderstood by others.

[HappyChristian]

That would more likely depend upon how public the "ladies night out" is. If it's something just known to yourself, then certainly that's all it pertains to. If it's a public statement then it certainly runs the risk of being misunderstood by others.

EVERYTHING we do runs the risk of being misunderstood by others, whether those others are Christians or the lost world. Trying to be "understood" by everyone will drive a person crazy. That is the reason that one must know scripture - and allow God to work in one's life. God the Holy Spirit will show a person who is surrendered to Him where they need to change. Scriptural admonition can be command, principle, or pattern. Where there is command, it is obvious what one must do. In the case of principle or pattern, it is not so obvious for the daily minutia of life. That is where guidance of the Holy Spirit must come in (and, boy howdy, as a woman, I am so glad God gave me a wise, godly husband to guide me as well).

As we apply principles to our lives, we have to remember that God isn't going to require the exact same thing of each individual (again, principle is different from command). An example would be one I've given before: TV. Some people, by conviction, do not own one (of those, many do not watch anything at all, some will watch if at a person's home, some will select certain videos to watch on a monitor, etc - even there, there is difference), Others own one and only watch the news for information. Others will watch educational shows. Others will add a show here and there. That is where the headship of the home enters in, as the head of that home makes those decisions as God guides him.

To take my example further: We don't own a TV. We have never had one during our almost 26 years of marriage. We abhor much of what is on there. And we have biblical principle, rooted in not allowing wickedness in our eye-gate, not allowing the philosophy of the world to penetrate our minds and hearts, etc., to back up our decision not to own one.

Okay...so, because God has shown my husband that He doesn't want us to own one, we see others with this box that spews out (as I've heard it preached from many a pulpit over my years in Christianity) vomit into one's living room...we must then proclaim to all that owning a TV is sin. Because we have been thus enlightened. And so, it is our responsibility to look at others and see them as sinners because they do not throw out their sets and become tv-less like we are. And we have Bible to back us up....

In actuality, if we had that attitude (and rest assured, we do not), we would be guilty of the same sin Michel had toward David: looking at our fellow Christian with contempt in our hearts. And that is gross sin in God's eyes.

When we decide that we can dictate terminology that Christians use - because WE don't like the term, so we need to enlighten others as to the sin of said terms - we are bordering on disdain towards that Christian. Because WE are better Christians because WE don't do that.

SWIM? Yes, what we say is vital. God is very clear on that. HOW we say it is just as important. And both the how and the what are rooted in our relationship to the Lord. Ministering grace to our hearers in order to edify doesn't mean dictating terminology. Teaching them how to discern what the Holy Spirit would have them learn through scripture is a much better, more effective way of helping a Christian mature in their faith.

We will never please every one all the time in any way...so we should strive to please the Lord in everything, including our conversation/terminology. That is the proper principle to apply, and the Holy Spirit will take care of the rest, if we are surrendered.

[JerryNumbers]

Ro 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Ro 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Yes, there's verses for this, we can control the influence the world has upon us, keeping much of it out. The greatest thing a person, or church, can do, is change when they find they have taken up of the world, they have gone down the wrong path. Oh, if we change, them we admit we may have been wrong, above all, defend, never change something for the sake of our Lord, in order to keep the world out.

Oh, the term at hand, its not that I do not like it, its because of its meaning, & where it come from.

Surely God's people can do much better than copy after, plagiarizer off of bars, night clubs, & drinking establishments. Hope it doesn't help their business.

And I can understand that many would not know where This term came from, but I would think that when they found out, they would want to get rid of it, & use a term better suited for a New Testament Church instead of fight defending it, while putting down the messenger.

John, I don't know how public some churches are on this, but I do know the local 1st Baptist Church runs add in our local papers, saying, come join us for our "Ladies Night Out," while telling them the stars, entertainers, they will have present.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Jerry80871852