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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Paycheck for fulltime worker? Is it Biblical?


Calvary
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist



I was wondering myself, the only picture I saw was in your avatar. I can only hope that it is not really you.

Whose picture did you think it was? That was a very un Christ-like remark and uncalled for.
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I agree in part. One thing that gets me, I know of one missionary, he has been in Africa for many years, & has never got a self-supporting church started. Although he has, according to his reports, started many churches. He just keeps needing more money to keep the churches going. What have you done if you cannot start a mission church, if it is never self supporting.


The word Deputation throws me for a loop. I find nothing in the Bible that seems to back this word up.

I've read newsletter from other churches, & it speaking about the missions they've started right here in this country. And they spoke that they have from 30 to 100 or more members, yet they cannot support their self. The founding church is still paying the pastor, & supporting.

There are lots of missionaries sent out, yet many of them are being sent by local churches that do not even know how to teach their own members to how to be saved. How can they found a local church helping it getting started, if they cannot teach people how to be saved? All they do is teach people to have a false hope, & those who gain a false hope are much more difficult to win to Christ than one that has no hope.

A very good example of sending out missionaries.

Ac 13:1 ¶ Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
Ac 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Ac 13:3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
Ac 13:4 ¶ So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.

Although few there be that seem to be sent in that manner. Most make a tour throughout the country trying to gain money from most any local church no matter its name or its beliefs.

Where is the faith if you have a pocket full of money?

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Whose picture did you think it was? That was a very un Christ-like remark and uncalled for.


Yes, it was very poor choice of words. It wasn't pointed toward his actual appearance, rather that SFIC wasn't exhibiting the very trait that he decried God's man of not having. The comment "I can only hope that it is not really you." was in fact a plea and a prayer that SFIC isn't really anything like the attitude he has displayed toward missionaries.

I will guard my tongue and my keyboard more closely. Thank God I have a forgiving Savior and a Holy Spirit to convict me of inappropriate communication. I apologize to any or all who were offended and especially to SFIC.
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Calvary - excellent posts. I had never seen that about "brought forward" before. Thanks for the information!
As far as "pockets full of money," Modern missions has gone the way of Laodicea. Many KJV Mission boards demand savings accounts, retirement accounts, and all kinds of extras that make the monthly support enormous - more than many average American salaries, particularly in our kinds of churches. They own houses, retirement houses, etc. The pendulum has swung too far this way.
However, I know several good, quality, God-called missionaries who go under-supported, and own nothing. They own nothing because they know God called them to a different country, and they plan on Dieing there! God never calls a preacher to "retire." It is for life!
So unfortunately, missions has become more about connections, networking, and a career than it is about actual missions. That is a shame.
But that does not mean that deputation itself is a "lack of faith." It just means that a lot of fakirs are abusing a good thing to their own destruction. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater!
If anyone thinks deputation is a "lack of faith," then here is my advice:
1. Quit your job
2. Start calling every pastor you know and ask for a meeting to present your calling
3. then start travelling to all of these churches, not having any income, and not knowing if you will get an offering at the next meeting, or if that offering will be enough to pay for all of the expenses you incur to get there
4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 until you have enough support coming in to go and live in a foreign country, and minister to those people....

Lack of faith? Not so! it is ALL faith, until they get greedy and start asking for more than they NEED.

In Christ,

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Yes, it was very poor choice of words. It wasn't pointed toward his actual appearance, rather that SFIC wasn't exhibiting the very trait that he decried God's man of not having. The comment "I can only hope that it is not really you." was in fact a plea and a prayer that SFIC isn't really anything like the attitude he has displayed toward missionaries.

I will guard my tongue and my keyboard more closely. Thank God I have a forgiving Savior and a Holy Spirit to convict me of inappropriate communication. I apologize to any or all who were offended and especially to SFIC.

Thank you very much for the explanation.
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How about the other side of the picture. I have approached many "missionary" organizations in the past and because I don't go to a church as the closest IFB church that I trust is over 950 kms away and they only have 20-30 people on a good Sunday, I am not an "acceptable" candidate for missions work. I have been to most of the churches here in my town and their doctrine is so far off I usually end up walking out during the service.I do not have a trust fund, I do not believe in asking for money and God hasn't supplied as yet so I have stopped trying. Many a young man has been called and short of God Himself depositing money into their bank account are unable to afford to study or enter the ministry. Many churches these days I find are tight fisted with their funds and will usually only assist those who have been involved in the church for some time. You can't really blame them though as many have abused the trust placed in them over the years.

I agree that SFIC is a bit strong in his view concerning "deputation" and "begging" for assistance, but is he wrong concerning the faith issue? Not in my opinion. Too many pastors, missionaries and others doing church work are in it for the wrong reasons and are not called and shouldn't be doing it. They cause more harm than good. So if God doesn't provide then you can be sure that you shouldn't be there because if He has called you He WILL make a way. He didn't make a way for me so I have to believe that my "calling" was my desire and not His will for me. This is just my opinion from my own personal experience. So without some form of making it known that God has called a young man into the ministry how else are they to proceed?


Brother, if God has called you, you will know it as sure as your salvation.
If God has called you, then my suggestion is as follows:
Pack up and move to an area where there is a really good Bible-Believing church where you can grow and learn. And then see if doors don't begin to open.
We are living in the days of Amos 8:11-12. If there is not a good church near you now, the chances of one starting are very slim. But if you leave, God may send someone in there to start one.

I am sure you can list many reasons why it would be impossible for you to move, but I believe the local church is what God ordained for us to support in this age, and it therefore is our DUTY to find one and be a part of it - regardless of loss, situation, etc. And don't worry - I would not give you this advice if I have not already done so.....tough choices, but Christ always comes first - ahead of money, jobs, family, extended family, mom, dad, brothers, sisters, friends, etc.

I am sure that if you follow this advice, God's will for your life will become more clear through the preaching and teaching of the Bible, and through actively participating in the ministries of the church.

My purpose here is not to be mean or cold-hearted, but rather to help.

In Christ,
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The word deputation does not exist in the Bible, therefore it must be un biblical and therefore it must also demonstrate a lack of faith.

2 completely unBiblical conclusions to a fabricated crisis.

Again, lets look at the principles involved.

Does God desire the gospel to go to the unreached?

Does God call men (and women) to do such?

Has God ordained the church (local or universal - right now I'm arguing semantics) with a commission to go into all the world?

Has God in fact demonstrated in principle that men He called were in fact financially supported by churches?

If the answer is yes to the above, then tell me what's it matter what you call it?
I'm reminded of a movie called October Sky. The young boys are excited about their rocket and have taken it to the company welder to help them. One of the young men gets excited about the "nozzle". The welder for the mine called it a "washer", and he stood corrected by the young man who insisted that it be called a "nozzle". The welder's reply is classic and could be a lesson to all of us.
He said, "It doesn't matter what you call it son, but unless we use a stronger steel it'll never work."

That's what we have here. Folks playing semantics and then acting pious about their terminology.

I can hear the Lord say,
It doesn't matter what you call it son, unless you pay their way it ain't gonna happen!

Too many self appointed "scholars" are more worried about dictation and grammar than they are about words. Too many self appointed biblicists fretting over a method instead of the results.
Too many self appointed spokespersons for God and not enough grace amongst them to die to self, realize that that was then, this is today and if you want to get the gospel over to a place where it ain't, then you're gonna have to be a part of the solution, chose to be involved and stop criticizing what others are doing for the Lord!

The gospel has never been to a place unless a man put it there.

God called me to where I am and He has provided for me every step of the way. If some other brother got somewhere without ever asking for help, then praise the Lord for Him who gave it anyways! If another man got over there and 10 churches helped him get there, then praise the Lord for Him who gave it to the 10 churches!

Edited by Calvary
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Brother, if God has called you, you will know it as sure as your salvation.
If God has called you, then my suggestion is as follows:
Pack up and move to an area where there is a really good Bible-Believing church where you can grow and learn. And then see if doors don't begin to open.
We are living in the days of Amos 8:11-12. If there is not a good church near you now, the chances of one starting are very slim. But if you leave, God may send someone in there to start one.

I am sure you can list many reasons why it would be impossible for you to move, but I believe the local church is what God ordained for us to support in this age, and it therefore is our DUTY to find one and be a part of it - regardless of loss, situation, etc. And don't worry - I would not give you this advice if I have not already done so.....tough choices, but Christ always comes first - ahead of money, jobs, family, extended family, mom, dad, brothers, sisters, friends, etc.

I am sure that if you follow this advice, God's will for your life will become more clear through the preaching and teaching of the Bible, and through actively participating in the ministries of the church.

My purpose here is not to be mean or cold-hearted, but rather to help.

In Christ,


My wife (god bless her strength) and I did exactly that. Sold everything, packed what was left in the backie (truck to you in the USA) and moved - don't quite know what happened but it's a long story full of bitternes and disenchantment and lots of anger on my side so after 18 months I decided that enough was enough and we moved back home to the support structure of family to start over again.

Faith is not always rewarded like some think and teach that it will be. I am mature enough to know that the problem was not God but me, so we'll leave it at that for now.
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I don't know about other churches, except those I've been a part of, & I know that they did not have to have someone comes around begging them for money to support missions, for the size of churches they were, the lack of wealth the members had, it was very surprising the amount they gave to God, in support of God's work.

The church I've been at since 2001, before I arrived they were not giving nothing, I did not find this out till after I accept being called. When it came up, I said only a few words about it. It seemed the cause of this was one member & a past pastor. Yet we soon got that cleared up, & everyone was very cheerful about it, it took no begging, only God's truth.

I've only been a a member of one church that it seemed the pastor & or someone was always harping about money, & the need for everyone to give more. This went on at probably 90% of its services. I think the problem was they were trying to do to much for the number of members, & lack of wealth the members had. They were always begging members to pledge, promise to give more & more money. A family cannot give what they do not have, & they cannot pledge nor promise to give that which they do not have. This church had many were elderly members drawing Social Security.

Many of todays churches are like the government, do not live within their means. In Jesus' Churches, its not about who gives the most, what church gives the most, its not about the number of members, how much money the members has, yet, in some churches, it seems that is all its about, if you get to know them very well.

If the money has to be begged for, I want no part of it.

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I agree with you Calvary, yet I will say that some live way to high off of God's Word, but that's for our Lord to take care of.


I know of two Baptist churches that I attended for a time that went through this. The one pastor demanded 60k a year plus the house with all expenses paid. This was back in '95 so that was a pretty good clip. The other church which was relatively small and poor couldn't find a pastor for a long time because they couldn't afford the outrageous salaries they wanted. The one pastor who'd recently graduated from Hyles-Anderson would only preach on Sunday morning until he got the pay he wanted. The last I heard this church was still looking for a pastor.
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I know of two Baptist churches that I attended for a time that went through this. The one pastor demanded 60k a year plus the house with all expenses paid. This was back in '95 so that was a pretty good clip. The other church which was relatively small and poor couldn't find a pastor for a long time because they couldn't afford the outrageous salaries they wanted. The one pastor who'd recently graduated from Hyles-Anderson would only preach on Sunday morning until he got the pay he wanted. The last I heard this church was still looking for a pastor.


That's just wrong. I know men here in SA that drive 400 kms to preach for free! That go out every Saturday to street preach and give out tracts. I would happily preach if my needs were met, not my wants. As a bladesmith and artist blacksmith I can work after hours for extra money. I think the problem is that there was a short period of time where churches were full and pastors could get positions that offered a building and a "manse" and it became an expected thing. My brother in law is a Presbyterian pastor and for a long time suffered because they have this thing - you can be "called" by a church or the church can offer you a contract. In the beginning he was given a contract and had to preach and do as the elders and deacons commanded, when he refused to compromise they told him that though they could do nothing now, he better start looking for another "job" as they would not renew his contract. He has recently been "called" by another Presy church - this means that he can stay or go as he is led by the Lord and and the church has no say in the matter. He can preach the Word and though the elders and deacons have a say, it holds no weight in the sense that they can fire him. He now has a nice big church with generally good people and a house next to the church - but it took ten yrs of hard work and staying true to his calling.

What has it come to when churches control the pastors preaching by tightening the purse strings? And pastors must be forced into positions where they must choose to compromise or not by the elders if they want to feed there family?

It's the same with the youth of today, they want dads house and car right after getting there first pay check yet don't want to work the 20 yrs it took for dad to get the nice house and car.
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The spirit of Laodicea has invaded our churches. Too many Bible College grads don't want to suffer for Christ's sake. They want their nice little kingdom to pay them a nice fat paycheck, with all of the amenities - housing, cars, retirement, etc.
However, preaching and pastoring are a God-given CALLING, which brings much sacrifice, self-denial, hardship, and suffering. We are to be like Christ, and Christ said that the servant is not above the master.
So I agree that too many Career-oriented "pastors" have lost this vision of God's calling, and have bought into the Laodicean/Charismatic "wealth and prosperity" teaching.
This does NOT relieve the church of its responsibility to maintain their own pastor. It is sad to see so much abuse and excess.

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The spirit of Laodicea has invaded our churches. Too many Bible College grads don't want to suffer for Christ's sake. They want their nice little kingdom to pay them a nice fat paycheck, with all of the amenities - housing, cars, retirement, etc.
However, preaching and pastoring are a God-given CALLING, which brings much sacrifice, self-denial, hardship, and suffering. We are to be like Christ, and Christ said that the servant is not above the master.
So I agree that too many Career-oriented "pastors" have lost this vision of God's calling, and have bought into the Laodicean/Charismatic "wealth and prosperity" teaching.
This does NOT relieve the church of its responsibility to maintain their own pastor. It is sad to see so much abuse and excess.


I agree, yet many of the Bible Colleges them self, & their teachers are ruining many that may become preachers.
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I agree Jerry.

Not to be critical of anyone. But, I asked a pastor (who had church hopped to get higher compensation) when did compensation become filthy lucre? He didn't give me an answer and hasn't spoken to me since. I figured out the answer by his actions.

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I agree Jerry.

Not to be critical of anyone. But, I asked a pastor (who had church hopped to get higher compensation) when did compensation become filthy lucre? He didn't give me an answer and hasn't spoken to me since. I figured out the answer by his actions.

Yes, I would say he answered pretty clearly!
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

This is my first post/reply and I hope it doesn't get me kicked off the forum. I have had personal opinions/beliefs on this subject and they have always leaned towards the belief of "Standing Firm in Christ." I see his belief is not too popular so I guess my won't be either. I do keep an open mind about all my beilefs because how am I to grow if I don't believe I can learn different from my beliefs to grow. I do not want to lean on my own understanding, therefore my open mind.

My sister and her husband are missionaries to Mongolia. When he told me he was called to be a missionary, I asked him what his next steps were. He told me he needed to get his finances in order and pay off some bills so he would be debt free. He also told me he was going to college for four years. After he did this, he went on deputation for another year and a half to 2 years. If memory serves me correctly, this took close to 6 or 7 years. All I could think about was when Jesus called a man and he said "let me go bury my father first." How long could it take to bury his father? What did Jesus say to the man? Let the dead bury the dead. This made me believe that when you are "called" that you drop everything and go. This is what I got from God's word. Jesus didn't have a place to lay his head. How did Jesus's ministry survive without the monetary support from local churches? I believe Amy Carmichael had this belief too. Her ministry survived on faith, not deputation. She had full faith in God to provide her needs. Isn't that what were told in His Word. If he clothes the lily's and feeds the sparrows, how much more will He do for us? If someone has the beleif to leave it in God's hands, how can we say anything about that person's faith?
My brother-in-law learned alot while going to school and on deputation. I am not talking about subjects he learned in college, but life lessons. He experienced the splitting of a church and school. He experienced a pastor from his past coming out against him and actually driving to my brother-in-laws school to protest to the President about my brother-in-law. There was alot more he experienced that helped shape him into the "strong" man of God he is today. Was this God's will? If he would have just "jumped" would he have missed alot of life's lessons that helped shape him? Maybe God lead him first to go to school and, second, to go into the field. If it is God who is leading a man, can we not have faith that God will lead the man where he needs to go?
Someone replied to "Standing Firm in Christ", who stated he will no longer reply to this thread, that he actually couldn't reply because of basically being hit up side the head with the Bible. Could someone please hit me upside the head with the Bible so I can know what to believe. I think "SFiC's" belief sounds more like Christ telling the man to let the dead bury the dead.

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This is my first post/reply and I hope it doesn't get me kicked off the forum. I have had personal opinions/beliefs on this subject and they have always leaned towards the belief of "Standing Firm in Christ." I see his belief is not too popular so I guess my won't be either. I do keep an open mind about all my beilefs because how am I to grow if I don't believe I can learn different from my beliefs to grow. I do not want to lean on my own understanding, therefore my open mind.

Settle down there sparky. Folks don't get kicked off for the posts that are posted, but rather the attitude that they are posted in. If all your posts are like your first, then you have no reason to worry. I may not agree, but I respect you. Welcome to Online Baptist.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

This is my first post/reply and I hope it doesn't get me kicked off the forum. I have had personal opinions/beliefs on this subject and they have always leaned towards the belief of "Standing Firm in Christ." I see his belief is not too popular so I guess my won't be either. I do keep an open mind about all my beilefs because how am I to grow if I don't believe I can learn different from my beliefs to grow. I do not want to lean on my own understanding, therefore my open mind.

My sister and her husband are missionaries to Mongolia. When he told me he was called to be a missionary, I asked him what his next steps were. He told me he needed to get his finances in order and pay off some bills so he would be debt free. He also told me he was going to college for four years. After he did this, he went on deputation for another year and a half to 2 years. If memory serves me correctly, this took close to 6 or 7 years. All I could think about was when Jesus called a man and he said "let me go bury my father first." How long could it take to bury his father? What did Jesus say to the man? Let the dead bury the dead. This made me believe that when you are "called" that you drop everything and go. This is what I got from God's word. Jesus didn't have a place to lay his head. How did Jesus's ministry survive without the monetary support from local churches? I believe Amy Carmichael had this belief too. Her ministry survived on faith, not deputation. She had full faith in God to provide her needs. Isn't that what were told in His Word. If he clothes the lily's and feeds the sparrows, how much more will He do for us? If someone has the beleif to leave it in God's hands, how can we say anything about that person's faith?
My brother-in-law learned alot while going to school and on deputation. I am not talking about subjects he learned in college, but life lessons. He experienced the splitting of a church and school. He experienced a pastor from his past coming out against him and actually driving to my brother-in-laws school to protest to the President about my brother-in-law. There was alot more he experienced that helped shape him into the "strong" man of God he is today. Was this God's will? If he would have just "jumped" would he have missed alot of life's lessons that helped shape him? Maybe God lead him first to go to school and, second, to go into the field. If it is God who is leading a man, can we not have faith that God will lead the man where he needs to go?
Someone replied to "Standing Firm in Christ", who stated he will no longer reply to this thread, that he actually couldn't reply because of basically being hit up side the head with the Bible. Could someone please hit me upside the head with the Bible so I can know what to believe. I think "SFiC's" belief sounds more like Christ telling the man to let the dead bury the dead.


If someone is feeling that God is calling them to do it that way then fine, I don't have a problem with it as long as they have the fortitude to actually stick with it. What I have "heard" a time or two is that it is not at all uncommon for people to think that God is calling them to do it that way, start out, yet when they actually get to the field and are confronted by harsh realities very often they either chicken out all together & go home or they find another missionary who does have support, move to his area, and sort of be a financial drain on him since they don't have much/any support and he can't really refuse to help with their needs...

Point is, this approach may occasionally be God's will for some people, but more often than not it is a method tried by those who are confusing presumption with faith. I would not categorically say it is wrong to do things this way, but I would warn anyone thinking of it to be very, very sure that it truly is Gods will for them and that they are not acting out of presumption or haste.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

This is my first post/reply and I hope it doesn't get me kicked off the forum. I have had personal opinions/beliefs on this subject and they have always leaned towards the belief of "Standing Firm in Christ." I see his belief is not too popular so I guess my won't be either. I do keep an open mind about all my beilefs because how am I to grow if I don't believe I can learn different from my beliefs to grow. I do not want to lean on my own understanding, therefore my open mind.

My sister and her husband are missionaries to Mongolia. When he told me he was called to be a missionary, I asked him what his next steps were. He told me he needed to get his finances in order and pay off some bills so he would be debt free. He also told me he was going to college for four years. After he did this, he went on deputation for another year and a half to 2 years. If memory serves me correctly, this took close to 6 or 7 years. All I could think about was when Jesus called a man and he said "let me go bury my father first." How long could it take to bury his father? What did Jesus say to the man? Let the dead bury the dead. This made me believe that when you are "called" that you drop everything and go. This is what I got from God's word. Jesus didn't have a place to lay his head. How did Jesus's ministry survive without the monetary support from local churches? I believe Amy Carmichael had this belief too. Her ministry survived on faith, not deputation. She had full faith in God to provide her needs. Isn't that what were told in His Word. If he clothes the lily's and feeds the sparrows, how much more will He do for us? If someone has the beleif to leave it in God's hands, how can we say anything about that person's faith?
My brother-in-law learned alot while going to school and on deputation. I am not talking about subjects he learned in college, but life lessons. He experienced the splitting of a church and school. He experienced a pastor from his past coming out against him and actually driving to my brother-in-laws school to protest to the President about my brother-in-law. There was alot more he experienced that helped shape him into the "strong" man of God he is today. Was this God's will? If he would have just "jumped" would he have missed alot of life's lessons that helped shape him? Maybe God lead him first to go to school and, second, to go into the field. If it is God who is leading a man, can we not have faith that God will lead the man where he needs to go?
Someone replied to "Standing Firm in Christ", who stated he will no longer reply to this thread, that he actually couldn't reply because of basically being hit up side the head with the Bible. Could someone please hit me upside the head with the Bible so I can know what to believe. I think "SFiC's" belief sounds more like Christ telling the man to let the dead bury the dead.


Well, we can say honestly, that only a few people practice true faith in God to provide. How can one have true faith with their pocketbook packed with enough money to last them a year? And I admit, I'm a very poor excuse at trusting God for tomorrow.


Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Mt 6:25 ¶ Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
Mt 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
Mt 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Mt 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
Mt 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mt 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Mt 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Mt 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Mt 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mt 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

PS. Please don't make another post saying what I put a line though. To me, when a person does that they're tempting the owner, or moderator, when you agree with or disagree with some one just say so, them just state your beliefs & why you believe that, & all will be well. :)
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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 0 replies
    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 1 reply
    • Razor

      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
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    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
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      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
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    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
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                                              3
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                                                  4
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      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
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      6
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                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
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