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Paycheck for fulltime worker? Is it Biblical?


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I have read it, and disagree. Especially in light of the fact that Paul instructed the elders/overseers of the Church to work with their hands so that they are chargeable to no man.

Calvary has taken those verses he used out of context. Paul was consistent in his teaching that the overseers of the Church were to work with their hands.

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We are now on 107 posts and still going nowhere. Lets get all churches to stop paying the Pastors, the missionaries, etc and make them all go out and get jobs. At least it will kill the prosperity preachers, boost the economy - oh wait - the economy is down the creek without a paddle, so these pastors won't even get work and if they do they'll be taking our jobs!

Lets get them to work 5/6 days a week, do visitations after work, prepare sermons when they finish visitations and mid week meetings and then preach on Sunday and during all this WORK let them ignore their families and then start over on Monday - a few months of this and most pastors will be chewing their wrists, giving up preaching all together or end up divorced, I say most except for the heroes of the faith like SFIC and Paul, because the rest of us lying thieving BEGGARS who don't deserve to be called servants of Christ.

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For one to conclude that Paul's statement that elders are worthy of double honour means the elder is to receive a salary is not a good conclusion at all. That is, unless one thinks servants should pay their masters a salary for making them work.

The same word "time" that is translated "honour" in 1 Timothy 5 is also used in 1 Timothy 6:1

Now I'm curious, you that have jobs and believe a pastor is supposed to receive a salary... do you pay your boss a salary for putting you to work? Where's the consistency?

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We are now on 107 posts and still going nowhere. Lets get all churches to stop paying the Pastors, the missionaries, etc and make them all go out and get jobs. At least it will kill the prosperity preachers, boost the economy - oh wait - the economy is down the creek without a paddle, so these pastors won't even get work and if they do they'll be taking our jobs!

Lets get them to work 5/6 days a week, do visitations after work, prepare sermons when they finish visitations and mid week meetings and then preach on Sunday and during all this WORK let them ignore their families and then start over on Monday - a few months of this and most pastors will be chewing their wrists, giving up preaching all together or end up divorced, I say most except for the heroes of the faith like SFIC and Paul, because the rest of us lying thieving BEGGARS who don't deserve to be called servants of Christ.
The Apostle Paul told them to work with their hands so your argument is with him and the Word of God, not with me.
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The Apostle Paul told them to work with their hands so your argument is with him and the Word of God, not with me.


Wasn't arguing, just making facetious remarks. Learn't long ago that there is no point arguing with a zealot.
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Here are a couple passages to think about:
Php 4:13-17
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction. Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity. Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

In this passage, Paul is thanking them for the gift of money that they sent and is asking for more support that they may gain more fruit.

2Co 9:1-7
For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you: For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many. Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready: Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting. Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness. But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Paul is telling the churches in this passage to have their offerings ready that they promised. He tells the churches of Macedonia that he is sending people to pick up their offering and that they should make sure they have given, otherwise Pauls boasting of them would be in vain.

Now, I agree with SFIC that there are no places in Scripture for missionaries to go "begging" for money. I have had many missionaries and Evangelists in my home and can honestly say that very few were "begging" and my churches have never supported them. I used to throw away letters that were begging for money.

I have worked while pastoring and any pastor not willing to work while pastoring is not in the ministry for ministry. Colleges today are teaching pastors not to go to churches unless they can be "fully" supported. Church planters won't go to a community unless they have 5 years of support. Quite frankly it is a disgrace. But to say that a pastor should not receive a salary is completely UnScriptural.

Let's look at 1 more passage:
1Ti 5:17-18
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Paul is telling Timothy (A Pastor) and his church that a pastor who rules well is worth of double honour. What is double honour, Respect and Compensation.

Standing Firm,
I am asking for you now to give a Biblical basis for your position. It's easy just to say you don't agree. Show us your Scriptural convictions, rather than just your personal preference on this issue.

Thanks
Pastor J

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I have read it, and disagree. Especially in light of the fact that Paul instructed the elders/overseers of the Church to work with their hands so that they are chargeable to no man.

Calvary has taken those verses he used out of context. Paul was consistent in his teaching that the overseers of the Church were to work with their hands.


That application was line upon line. There was more context there than you can handle. I have said repeatedly, if you feel that you should deprive the church of what your own pet commentaries say is their duty to the pastor so be it. If you want to follow Paul's patten in the Corinthian church, fine. So be it. But do not hold up Paul's dealing with that church as a biblical norm. You sir, do great damage to sound exegesis. In fact, I wonder that you can even read with any comprehension at all after reading your posts. You are unstable in your demands for context. You quote Matthew 10 and demand the man of God go forth, taking no script, yet you wear shoes. You do not heal lepers, raise the dead or cast out demons yet you stand and declare that we should take no script. Typical cultish behaviour. Quote partial verses, build doctrines upon snippets of the word of God and then dig in your heels when called on it by citing extra biblical authorities. You are no better than a false Jehovah's Witness. You are a grade A hack. And I say that with charity.

Double honor is exactly what millions of christians for centuries have thought it is - more than fair treatment of the pastor. Your pet theories will not change that. In 1 Ti 5:3 Paul says that widows are worthy of honor. The context is in fact about how to treat people in the church. A widow who is a widow in truth will be cared for by the church. The word HONOR there is talking of nothing less than the financial care for her. Following the context of how to treat people in the church, Paul gets to the pastor. DOUBLE HONOR. If a widow is worthy of hepl, the apstor DOUBLE. Too bad SFIC that you cannot read in context or you would have seen that 1 Timothy 5 is talking about the care of a pastor.

God bless,
Calvary Edited by Calvary
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Read Philippians 4 again PastorJ. Paul is not asking for money at all. And what the saints at Philipi sent was not salary, but a gift. At least you got part of it right.

1 Corinthians 9 is about ministering to the saints, not paying a pastor. Paul is sending for the bounty, he is not the pastor of the Church at Corinth. Again, no argument for paid pastors.

PastorJ, I have given ample references. Acts 20, 2 Thessalonians 1, et al..

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Paul is not writing to businesses, he is writing to a Pastor. Philippians is most definitely dealing with money. He says that they communicated with him concerning giving.

Let's see your Scriptural argument, not just 2 verses. Explain your passages. Post them and explain them as Calvary and I have done.

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Why not an ordination? I answered the call to the ministry, was proven behind the pulpit and in the field. The ordination is a state requirement if one wants to officiate in marriages and funerals.

The ordination also opened doors for me to minister in prisons once a month, which I did in both the state of Virginia (Lorton Correctional Facility, Prince William County Jail) and North Carolina (Asheboro Correctional Facility, Randleman City Jail). Without legal paperwork, I was unable to minister in the Virginia Correction Systems because of my status as a convicted felon in the state of Virginia. But because of my ordination, and God's moving mountains out of the way, I was able to minister in those facility's for many years.


The only ones in the Bible that I see that's ordained is the pastor, deacon, & the missionary that's sent.

As for speaking at a funeral service, if a family member ask you to, that is all it takes. Even a family member can speak at such a service.

As for marring someone, in my state if your local church will issue you a license to preach, you can go to the court house & register it, & them you can legally marry someone.
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Standing Firm in Christ, I just don't get it, where you claim its wrong to pay the pastor. Your argument comes up way short, for that's exactly what the verses means that have been bought up, & there is nothing wrong with a pastor of a church also holding down a secular job, for there's several churches that cannot afford to pay full wages. There is not one thing wrong with the, what we call, full time, or part time pastor, & nothing wrong with the full time pastor accepting a salary.

I have found that most small churches that cannot pay full wages, cheerfully pay what they can, & usually it is enough. And most of them's expatriation is that at times they may not be available & or he will have to have to do pastor duties after working hours.

I do think some churches over pay their full time pastor & these pastor live way to high off of our Lord. Of course some of them will take care of that without our knowledge, by placing much of his pay back into that local church. Yet, by how some of them live, its easy to tell they love the high life of materialism.

Of course here in America we have become a greedy people, & many think its not robbing God to have an easy hight standard of living having much material wealth at the expense of God.

And for most people being a pastor is just like choosing to be a fireman, policeman, lawyer, doctor, & or other professions, & one that has very good benefits & a easy living.

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The only ones in the Bible that I see that's ordained is the pastor, deacon, & the missionary that's sent.

As for speaking at a funeral service, if a family member ask you to, that is all it takes. Even a family member can speak at such a service.

As for marring someone, in my state if your local church will issue you a license to preach, you can go to the court house & register it, & them you can legally marry someone.
But a family member cannot officiate at a funeral if he is not recognized by the state as an ordained minister of the Gospel.

The Clerk of the Circuit Court in my hometown informed me that for a marriage to be recognized the officiating minister had to be ordained.
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