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Did God Say to Blow Your Tithe Money on Beer in Deuteronomy?


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I am sorry, but one mans opinion is not enough to convince me that "strong drink" means beer. You can not take a Babylonian word and a similar Hebrew word and combine them and make beer out them. If we truly believe that the KJ is the true inspired Word of God then the word beer would have been used. They knew what beer was when they wrote the KJV 1611. I still stand on my previous post that strong drink here meant concentrated grape juice and that it always comes back to context.
Any one that accepts this disregards the character of God.


My point was to direct Rick to the possible reason for the disparity in Deut. 14 with his OP. Beer to me is strong drink. I imagine one can of it would put me in a great stupor, drunk and unable to function. I'm not sure why you would think strong drink is equal to grape juice, That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

God bless,
calvary
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My point was to direct Rick to the possible reason for the disparity in Deut. 14 with his OP. Beer to me is strong drink. I imagine one can of it would put me in a great stupor, drunk and unable to function. I'm not sure why you would think strong drink is equal to grape juice, That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

God bless,
calvary


If you read my above post (# 23) explaining my reasoning you would understand. I will not and can not accept God commanding the drinking of alcohol when so many verses strongly refute this. I will go as far as His possible permitting, but not commanding. It goes against the very character of God.
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Funny how some think God would tell people to drink that which has the ability to deceive them and cause them to lose their very souls to hell.

The fact is, the Israelites did not drink a fermented beverage. Deuteronomy 29:6 makes it clear that they drank neither wine, nor strong drink.

What did they drink then? Deuteronomy 32:14 tells us it was indeed wine... the pure blood of the grape. The Hebrew word "chemer" is speaking of red wine.

But wait... they drank wine, but they didn't drink wine? That's what the Word of God says.

No, the Bible is not contradicting itself. The juice of the grape is called wine while it is still in the cluster according to Isaiah 65:8. God said destroy it not for a blessing is in it. Yet in Deuteronomy 32:33 we see there is a wine that God condemns. He calls it the poison of dragons. This is a wine that has fermented. It is not the wine that God says produces a blessing.

There were indeed fermented and non fermented wines in the Word of God.

So which did God tell the Israelites to go, buy, and drink? Since the fermented wine has the ability to deceive the imbiber into a state of drunkenness, I find it inconceivable that He would tell His chosen people to drink a fermented wine.

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It should be noted that the Hebrew word for "pure" in Deuteronomy 32:14 is the word "chemer" and is only found twice in the Old Testament. The other place is Isaiah 27:2, which reads:

In that day sing ye unto her, A vineyard of red wine.

A vineyard of wine? Alcoholic wine is not found in a vineyard, it if found in vessels.

The world "chemer" indicates a non fermented wine... the pure blood of the grape.

Thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape... they drank a wine that was non alcoholic in content.


Grape juice will start to ferment naturally within a very short time from the natuaral yeast on the skin, especially in a warm climate. It will be alcoholic in 1-2 months.

I was not, in my last post, advocating alcohol.
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Funny how some think God would tell people to drink that which has the ability to deceive them and cause them to lose their very souls to hell.

The fact is, the Israelites did not drink a fermented beverage. Deuteronomy 29:6 makes it clear that they drank neither wine, nor strong drink.

What did they drink then? Deuteronomy 32:14 tells us it was indeed wine... the pure blood of the grape. The Hebrew word "chemer" is speaking of red wine.

But wait... they drank wine, but they didn't drink wine? That's what the Word of God says.

No, the Bible is not contradicting itself. The juice of the grape is called wine while it is still in the cluster according to Isaiah 65:8. God said destroy it not for a blessing is in it. Yet in Deuteronomy 32:33 we see there is a wine that God condemns. He calls it the poison of dragons. This is a wine that has fermented. It is not the wine that God says produces a blessing.

There were indeed fermented and non fermented wines in the Word of God.

So which did God tell the Israelites to go, buy, and drink? Since the fermented wine has the ability to deceive the imbiber into a state of drunkenness, I find it inconceivable that He would tell His chosen people to drink a fermented wine.


I don't think any one on this board is advocating liberty to drink liquor. I think we're trying to find a way to understand the Deut 14 passage in light of the Biblical fact that alcohol is warned against. So far, I think we are all still at a loss for explaining the passage.

@ 1 Tim.

Brother, I don't think God has commanded any one to drink booze. But grape juice and strong drink ain't the same thing.

You said: The terms wine and strong drink often mean grape juice, fermented grape juice (alcohol) and have also been used to describe wine that has been boiled down into a syrup that was later mixed with water.

I agree that grape juice was reduced to a paste, similiar to our frozen juices, but not frozen of course, but it was stored that way. And then mixed with water to make it juice again.But I don't think your correct by saying that the terms wine and strong drink often mean grape juice. Not one of the 20 verses where the phrase "strong drink" appears speaks of grape juice. The bible won't support that.

God bless,
calvary
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I believe the best explanation is the one given by Leighton Campbell in his book. I did not quote the entirety of what he says concerning wine in Old Testament times due to copyright laws. Not sure how much exactly can be quoted.

Suffice it to say, I do believe that God would not be sanctioning the Israelites use of alcohol.

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There indeed was a way of refrigeration in those days, for Pliny the Elder described preserving wine in its non fermented state in a cold millpond.

Granted, they did not have the same refrigeration that we have today, but they obviously had learned how to keep some things cold through this practice.

In 2006, Linda and I undertook one of the methods of preservation that Pliny spoke of; boiling the juice down and filtering out the must before it had a chance to cool, then storing it for 30 days. We actually stored this down for two years and opened it in 2008. I drank a large cup of the homemade wine made using that preservation method. I drank it in a matter of seconds and never felt the least bit drunk the whole evening.

I am satisfied with the knowledge that there were indeed non fermented wines in Bible days and the fact that God would not tell His children to drink a fermented wine.

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I will not and can not accept God commanding the drinking of alcohol when so many verses strongly refute this. I will go as far as His possible permitting, but not commanding. It goes against the very character of God.


I don't think the verse in the OP is "commanding" the drinking of "strong drink". It was merely permitting it if someone wished. The wise would not wish to do such a thing though. Scripture is full of warnings about the dangers of it, wise men like Daniel avoided it it(Daniel 1:8-16) and anyone can see the destruction and hurt it usually ends up causing people sooner or later.
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Yeast will ferment, even in a fridge. Some bread recipes advocate putting your dough in the fridge to let it rise overnight, and yes, yeast fermenting in dough produces alcohol.

Edited by Invicta
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Yeast will ferment, even in a fridge. Some bread recipes advocate putting your dough in the fridge to let it rise overnight, and yes, yeast fermenting in dough produces alcohol.

Yes, I've worked in a prison and seen what can be done by some prisoners!
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@ 1 Tim.

Brother, I don't think God has commanded any one to drink booze. But grape juice and strong drink ain't the same thing.

You said: The terms wine and strong drink often mean grape juice, fermented grape juice (alcohol) and have also been used to describe wine that has been boiled down into a syrup that was later mixed with water.

I agree that grape juice was reduced to a paste, similiar to our frozen juices, but not frozen of course, but it was stored that way. And then mixed with water to make it juice again.But I don't think your correct by saying that the terms wine and strong drink often mean grape juice. Not one of the 20 verses where the phrase "strong drink" appears speaks of grape juice. The bible won't support that.

God bless,
calvary


I disagree. Many verses that use the term "wine" mean alcohol. I proved that in my earlier post. So I will prove it again.

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; - wine as alcohol.

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. - do you think that Paul would condone that Timothy drink alcohol for medicinal purposes? If this one doesn't prove it then the next few should.

Hos 4:11 Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart. Here wine and "new wine" are alcoholic.

Jer 23:9 Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness. Wine as alcohol.

Isa 49:26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob. Here sweet wine means alcohol.

Ecc 9:7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. Is this alcoholic wine or juice of the grape? In context with God accepting the drinking of it with a merry heart?

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. Would the priest of the most high God give out alcoholic wine?
Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
He then blesses Abram "of the most high God" - and then praises God - "blessed be the most high God" so is this alcohol or juice?

Num 15:7 And for a drink offering thou shalt offer the third part of an hin of wine, for a sweet savour unto the LORD. Is this "sweet savour" unto God alcoholic wine or juice?

Num 28:7 And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering. Here strong wine is an offering to God - alcohol or concentrated juice?

Jdg 9:13 And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees? Is God cheered by alcohol here?

My question is this: If wine can mean both alcohol and juice of the grape in the bible why can not the term "strong drink" mean both alcohol and concentrated juice?

If we are to believe that both the terms "wine" and "strong drink" meant alcohol then there are too many verses that condone the use of one or the other and strictly forbid one or the other. This would be a contradiction in the Word of God. So either we trust that the character of God is to be trusted when understanding a term used or we don't. If God allows the use of alcoholic wine then that means that we can drink alcohol. By this reasoning beer is 3 -5 % alcohol and if wine was 14% in those days as some "experts" say, then I can have at least 3 beers a day!! Or a glass of table wine!!

So do we trust the character of God or "MAN'S" interpretation of GODS WORD!! We are KJV BIBLE BELIEVING BAPTISTS and if we believe that the KJV bible is true, inspired by God and that God does not lie nor contradict Himself then we HAVE to interprate these terms in light of His character. The problem with the church these days is that the Word is interpretated to suit man and most modern commentaries reflect this!!
Is this the road us IFB's are going to take now? Are we going to trust the words of man or the Word of God? Do we study the Word of God with the guidance of His Holy Spirit or do we study the commentaries of man with the guidance of "lets not upset the apple cart"?

Do we really believe that God would allow the consumption of alcohol when in some even a little cuases harm? Is it His "permissive" will for us to drink alcohol?
Possibly, but I do not believe that the Word reflects this. Edited by 2Tim215
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Sorry 2Tim, but I have to disagree with you on your interpretation of Hosea 4:11

Hosea 4:11 is not speaking of drunkenness at all. It is speaking of the heart turning toward something other than God.

In Hosea, the heart is turned from God and to whoredom, wine, and new wine.

New wine in that verse is tiroshe, which is always interpreted as a grape juice and not as an alcohol.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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