Are there any biblical grounds for divorce?

[LindaR]

Referring to some previous posts about divorce being beneficial or not...

My parents were divorced when I was 3. He was a whoremonger (and ended up having 5 wives total) and he tried to kill my Mom. I realize that some on here would say my mother was a horrible sinner because she left my father, but there isn't anyone on this forum who wouldn't have done the same thing - no matter what your belief on the exception clause is. No-one in their right mind would stay with a spouse who has tried to kill them and is a major threat to their children.

My Dad was divorced as well. He had 3 boys with his first wife. And he was in the Navy - served in Vietnam. And she honored her vows to him while he was in Nam by getting pregnant...and then trying to pass the child off as his so she could get support.

My Mom was saved at a young age, but wasn't taught anything. God was merciful to her in ways that would take a long time to list. And he was merciful to us. How? Yes, we suffered the pain of divorce - that is something that children never get over. But God is gracious. And He sent another man into our lives. My Dad.

My Dad wasn't perfect - he was raised in a pentecostal pastor's home, so he had some mixed up teachings. But God was gracious and brought him to Himself. And my parents did the best they could with us.

My Dad died a month ago. He went to be with Jesus. And I'll tell you this much: his death has left a bigger void in my life than the divorce did so many years ago.

To say that there is always another choice is plain ignorance. There is not always another choice. And when divorce happens, those involved are hurting and need compassion not a spanking. Granted, there is sin in divorce. But many times there is an innocent victim as well.

I'm thinking of several women I know who tried with everything they had (including prayer and fasting) to keep their marriages together. But the spouses weren't interested. And these same people had no protection if they remained married to their spouses. Yes, God is protection, but we need to be realistic and admit that there are evil people who will not respond to God or His wooing. Such was the case of my biological father. He promised to return and kill my mother. Her protection? LEAVING. Leaving him, leaving the home there, leaving the state, and leaving the marriage. And God blessed and protected her doing that. You can doubt that all you want, but I lived through it, so I know wherewith I speak.

To make blanket statements that there is always an option is inaccurate. Else God wouldn't have said to allow the unbelieving spouse to depart (and depart my biological father did when he decided to pursue strange women and beat my mother; depart my dad's first wife did when she decided she was going to sleep with at least one other man and bear his child [she married him right away]).

I don't accept that the exception clause was only for the betrothal period. Putting away was a major shame in those days - an ending of the marriage. We can fine line it all we want and say the marriage wasn't consummated, so it wasn't a real marriage, she wasn't his complete wife, etc. But Joseph didn't want to shame Mary, so he was going to put her away privily. Divorce is divorce - whether or not the marriage is consummated. And God said "except it be for fornication," and then later said "let him depart." There are more ways than one to depart a marriage.

This post is "spot on"!
My only other option was to remain in a marriage in which I was considered the LEGAL wife and he would be free to have as many SPIRITUAL wives as he wanted...and all this happening in front of our two young sons (5 years and 8 years). In addition, Jesus was not allowed to be spoken of in his presence. There was no way I was going to remain in such a marriage...a marriage that really didn't exist anymore as a marriage.

Thank you LuAnne

[John81]

Christ made it clear the only reason an "exception" was made was due to hardness of heart. Christ made it clear that God hates divorce and there should never be divorce, the only real exception comes about only because of the hardness of the ones heart who sues for divorce.

God declares marriage is a lifetime committment, and if a marriage is severed by anything other than death, there is not to be any remarriage as long as both parties live.

Divorce isn't a necessity in God's eyes. A Christian can separate, if safety reasons make such necessary, without divorcing.

We could all write of personal experience, which never trumps Scripture, of how this or that sin worked out in our lives, or how we or another "had to" take a certain direction and point to how we think it worked out best.

However, if we obey the Word of God, there is no doubt things would have always worked out best because our trust is to be in Him, not ourselves.

[rancher824]

Christ made it clear the only reason an "exception" was made was due to hardness of heart. Christ made it clear that God hates divorce and there should never be divorce, the only real exception comes about only because of the hardness of the ones heart who sues for divorce.

God declares marriage is a lifetime committment, and if a marriage is severed by anything other than death, there is not to be any remarriage as long as both parties live.

Divorce isn't a necessity in God's eyes. A Christian can separate, if safety reasons make such necessary, without divorcing.

We could all write of personal experience, which never trumps Scripture, of how this or that sin worked out in our lives, or how we or another "had to" take a certain direction and point to how we think it worked out best.

However, if we obey the Word of God, there is no doubt things would have always worked out best because our trust is to be in Him, not ourselves.

But Jesus did say Except for fornication. Now the only one who has tried to really explain this admitted that fornication is a broad word that intails all forms of sexual sin, but is only willing to accept certain ones in this case. Is this not saying I will agree with Jesus as long as he agrees with me? It is very easy to say that a spouse can just seperate, but in reality things can get much more complex. Let's consider if I was a cheating husband. If I cheat on my wife as a daily thing. Now she decides to "seperate" from me for her safety. I could not stop her. Sounds simple enough doesn't it. Oh but wait, there are those two little ones that the Lord has given us. Does she take them from me and explain that she has that right to seperate me from MY children? I would fight for my children. Can you give me verses that stand behind "seperating" for a long period of time? The verses in 1 cor 7 say that if the unbeiliving are happy to stay, the believing are to "not leave them". Would seperating not be "leaving"?

[John81]

But Jesus did say Except for fornication. Now the only one who has tried to really explain this admitted that fornication is a broad word that intails all forms of sexual sin, but is only willing to accept certain ones in this case. Is this not saying I will agree with Jesus as long as he agrees with me? It is very easy to say that a spouse can just seperate, but in reality things can get much more complex. Let's consider if I was a cheating husband. If I cheat on my wife as a daily thing. Now she decides to "seperate" from me for her safety. I could not stop her. Sounds simple enough doesn't it. Oh but wait, there are those two little ones that the Lord has given us. Does she take them from me and explain that she has that right to seperate me from MY children? I would fight for my children. Can you give me verses that stand behind "seperating" for a long period of time? The verses in 1 cor 7 say that if the unbeiliving are happy to stay, the believing are to "not leave them". Would seperating not be "leaving"?

If we are unsure of the actual meaning with regards to "fornication" then we would certainly be wise to ere on the side of caution. Rather than take the possible broad view of the term, it would be best to take the more narrow meaning of the word.

Best of all would be to abide by the fact God hates divorce, God declares marriage is for life and no one is to end a marriage, realizing that if we are walking in Christ our hearts will not be hardened to the point we would sue for divorce.

God does not promise us an easy life, a life where we always feel things are as we want them, but He does promise to always provide for us and to never leave us or forsake us, while declaring that we are to fully surrender our wills to fully trust and obey Him in all things.

[heartstrings]

Who is unsure of the meaning> I showed you what it says in the dictionary, did you read it? You keep saying "God hates divorce" like we don't all know it.

[John81]

Who is unsure of the meaning> I showed you what it says in the dictionary, did you read it? You keep saying "God hates divorce" like we don't all know it.

Let's not make this personal, you keep saying the dictionary is right but the fact is, the dictionary is not always right. As well, words such as this can be used in multiple ways, sometimes in a more specific manner, sometimes in a more general manner. The more specific manner has more acceptance throughtout the course of Christianity than does the more general term here.

Back to Scripture, Jesus made it clear that only if one has a hardened heart will they sue for divorce. If the Christian is submitted to Christ in this matter, they will not sue for divorce.

[heartstrings]

I often use a Middle English dictionary because I haven't found a "Jacobean English" one available, but it does how how that soem fo our words have changed in useage over the centuries. This is what the Middle English dictionary says....


fornicciun (n.)

[L & OF.]

1.
(a) Lechery, adultery, fornication, sodomy; concubinage (of priests), prostitution; ~ and filth, boren in ~, don ~, fallen into (to) ~, liven in ~, open ~; (gost of ~, spirit or devil inciting to lechery; sones of ~, sons addicted to lechery; wif of ~, adulterous wife; © sexual relations of two unmarried persons, fornication (as distinguished from adultery).

2.
Unfaithfulness toward God; esp., worship of false gods, idolatry.

[HappyChristian]

Sigh...I typed an entire post and lost it because Google Chrome disconnected. I'm not going to type it again.

Let's not make this personal, you keep saying the dictionary is right but the fact is, the dictionary is not always right. As well, words such as this can be used in multiple ways, sometimes in a more specific manner, sometimes in a more general manner. The more specific manner has more acceptance throughtout the course of Christianity than does the more general term here.


No, the dictionary isn't always right. But looking at the word in both Hebrew and Greek (since it is used in both testaments), the meaning is clear: it applies to all sexual sins, as well as spiritual idolatry, and must be taken in context of teaching (in other words, if it's marriage being discussed, it's not spiritual idolatry and if it's God's relationship with Israel, etc., it's not sexual sin). Ergo, when Jesus said, "except it be for fornication" He was speaking of sexual sin. In or out of marriage.



Back to Scripture, Jesus made it clear that only if one has a hardened heart will they sue for divorce. If the Christian is submitted to Christ in this matter, they will not sue for divorce. You keep trying to cite scripture, and yet you are leaving out much. "Except it be for fornication" is is in that scripture you are referencing. It's interesting, but what you are implying by your statement is that a spouse must stay married to someone who is fornicating all over the place because, if the victim sues for divorce, the VICTIM has a hardened heart. That is absolutely not what scripture is saying, and you ought to be ashamed for implying it.

There are many good men who believe that there should never be divorce, and if there is, there should never be remarriage. If they want to believe that, that's fine. But to imply (or actually state, as has been done over and over in this thread) that the person who has been cuckolded cannot divorce or they are in sin flies in scripture's face.

When a spouse fornicates, said spouse departs the marriage - whether they "stay" married to their innocent spouse or not. Jesus said, "except it be for fornication," and Paul expanded on it when he, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, said that if the unbeliever departs, the brother or sister is NOT UNDER BONDAGE. That means, even though God doesn't want marriages to end in divorce, it is permissable. To condemn someone who has sought God for answers and the ONLY WAY is divorce (whether you think so or not, John - thankfully you've never faced the issue personally) is absolutely unscriptural. Especially when GOD says, "NOT under bondage in such case." I'll take God's Word over man's opinion any day.

[heartstrings]

Sigh...I typed an entire post and lost it because Google Chrome disconnected. I'm not going to type it again.


There are many good men who believe that there should never be divorce, and if there is, there should never be remarriage. If they want to believe that, that's fine. But to imply (or actually state, as has been done over and over in this thread) that the person who has been cuckolded cannot divorce or they are in sin flies in scripture's face.

When a spouse fornicates, said spouse departs the marriage - whether they "stay" married to their innocent spouse or not. Jesus said, "except it be for fornication," and Paul expanded on it when he, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, said that if the unbeliever departs, the brother or sister is NOT UNDER BONDAGE. That means, even though God doesn't want marriages to end in divorce, it is permissable. To condemn someone who has sought God for answers and the ONLY WAY is divorce (whether you think so or not, John - thankfully you've never faced the issue personally) is absolutely unscriptural. Especially when GOD says, "NOT under bondage in such case." I'll take God's Word over man's opinion any day.

Absolutely.

[John81]

Read the Word again. Christ said only for hardness of heart, which is refusing to follow God, was even an exception made, but if one is truly following Christ they will never sue for divorce.

The Word speaks the same to all of us and one shouldn't assume what any of us have or haven't faced in life. Even so, no matter what any of us have or have not faced, the Word is the same. When it comes to divorce, a Christian will only sue for divorce if they are unwilling to submit to God in the matter.

Most professing Christians who do sue for divorce then fail to remain unmarriead, as Scripture instructs. As is most often the case, when we give into one sin, we more easily give into another and another.

Christians are called to holiness, we are to aim for Christlikeness, we are called to fully submit our will for His. The fact we will never attain this fully during our lifetime here is no excuse not to strive for it as Scripture commands.

[HappyChristian]

Read the Word again. Christ said only for hardness of heart, which is refusing to follow God, was even an exception made, but if one is truly following Christ they will never sue for divorce. Mayhap you should read the Word again, John. Jesus did indeed say that God gave (via Moses) a writing for divorcement due to the hardness of their hearts. And then He went on and explained the only way divorce is permissible. "Except for fornication." And perhaps you should read again the admonition that if the unbelieving spouse departs, the brother or sister isn't under bondage.

The Word speaks the same to all of us and one shouldn't assume what any of us have or haven't faced in life. Even so, no matter what any of us have or have not faced, the Word is the same. When it comes to divorce, a Christian will only sue for divorce if they are unwilling to submit to God in the matters. Yes, the Word is the same for all of us. Unfortunately, man has the tendency to put his own opinion on things even when God is clear...your assumption that a Christian will sue for divorce only if they are not willing to submit is a broadbrush opinion that is not anchored in scripture, but opinion. "Except for fornication" and "not under bondage in this case" are scripture.

Most professing Christians who do sue for divorce then fail to remain unmarriead, as Scripture instructs. As is most often the case, when we give into one sin, we more easily give into another and another. Again a broadbrush statement that you cannot back up - most? You've personally spoken with most professing Christians who have sued for divorce and found that they "fail" to remain unmarried? If not, you cannot make that statement accurately because (trumpet sound) you cannot read their hearts....

Christians are called to holiness, we are to aim for Christlikeness, we are called to fully submit our will for His. The fact we will never attain this fully during our lifetime here is no excuse not to strive for it as Scripture commands. I would agree with this statement. But your assumption that people who suffer divorce do not strive to fully submit their wills to His is again trying to read hearts, for which neither you nor I nor anyone else is equipped.

[heartstrings]

Deuteronomy 24
¹When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
²And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
³And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
⁴Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Notice the "uncleanness" was NOT that she wasn't a virgin. There is a separate verse for that....

[John81]

It was Jesus, not me, who said that divorce is only granted even for exception due to hardened hearts.

True enough, Jesus granted an exception, but it's also true Jesus made it clear that it was for those whose hearts were hardened.

If we are walking in the will of God we will not do that which He hates.

[JerryNumbers]

Its very easy to know what fornication means.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
4202. πορνεια porneia
Search for G4202 in KJVSL
πορνεια porneia por-ni'-ah
from 4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively, idolatry:—fornication.
See Greek 4203

The trouble with divorce, to many follow their emotions, & not God’s Word. And many churches, pastors, refuse to speak the truth on this subject because of the emotions of divorced members, many times that person will hold hard feelings & may even leave that church, may not darken a church house door again.

Yet in the end all that counts is God’s truths. Our emotions can distort God’s truths.

[heartstrings]

It was Jesus, not me, who said that divorce is only granted even for exception due to hardened hearts.

²⁰But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
²¹Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
True enough, Jesus granted an exception, but it's also true Jesus made it clear that it was for those whose hearts were hardened.

If we are walking in the will of God we will not do that which He hates.

Sorry man, my internet connection kept failing at the office, I'm at home now.....
Here's the other scripture.......


Please pay attention to this, OK?
Divorce was granted because of "hardness of hearts"
Matthew 19:8 He(Jesus) saith unto them, Mosesbecause of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.


But a previously unmarried woman proven not a virgin was to be executed
Deuteronomy 22
²⁰But if this thing be true,(that she is not a virgin) and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
²¹Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

The law allowed putting away only because a man hated his wife for some "some uncleanness"(Deuteronomy 24:1-4) and the "uncleanness" could not have been because she wasn't a virgin because the penalty for that was death. Check it out, for yourself; all forms of illicit sex before or after marriage carried the death penalty, *(except for a young man caught with a virgin; they were forced to marry). So how could divorcing a person for illicit sex of any kind, under the OT law, have EVER been for "hardness of hearts" when divorce for that wasn't even an option? What am I saying? Anything under the sun that a nagging, obnoctious, hateful, brawling, odious, gossipping woman could ever do could truly harden a man's heart and tempt him to divorce her, but if she was a fornicator, that was a whole other matter::hard heartening nor divorce didn't even enter the picture because she was to be put to death for that. Edited March 29, 2012 by heartstrings