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The Gap (Daniel 11:33-35)


LindaR

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"...he shall make it desolate" refers BACK to the previous statement within the same sentence of the sacrifices being stopped at the middle of the week.

The abomination of desolation is still in the 70th week no matter how hard you try to pull it out.

27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


The 70 weeks were to accomplish 6 things,

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city
1. to finish the transgression,
2. and tomake an end of sins,
3. and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
4. and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
5. and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
6. and to anoint the most Holy.

The abomination of desolation doesn't figure in that, and Luke tells us it was the Roman Armies which were the abomination of desolation, which was already prophecied by our Lord, as a result of the Jews rejection of him.

1, Fulfilled by the jews when the crucified our Lord.
2. Fulfilled by the our Lord on the Cross.
3. Fulfilled by the our Lord on the Cross.
4. Fulfilled by the our Lord on the Cross.
5. Fulfilled by the our Lord at his baptism. Lu 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
6. Fulfilled by the our Lord at his baptism. What could be more holy?
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@Steve: I agree with that to an extent. The Second Coming will be the biggest day, but it will be the consummation of what Jesus made possible on the cross. The glorious return of our Lord and Saviour, the utter defeat of satan, the judgment, destruction of the Earth, and the recreation of everything into a New Heaven and New Earth (if there's differing opinions on whether the NH&NE will be a totally separate creation, we can start another thread on that; let's not discuss it here) would all have been impossible if not for the cross. That is why the cross is the CENTRAL event in history. Though the second coming will be the biggest day we see, there was none spiritually as massive as the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. It was then that Jesus conquered death by death. It was then that He defeated the devil and the power of sin. Though He did not remove the presence of sin altogether, He secured its fate by His death and resurrection.

Most importantly, it is the cross in which God's glory in justice was most revealed. What was the destruction coming that we were saved from? It was the wrath of God, not the devil. Were God of a different nature, He could have dismissed our sin without the cross. Yet He did not because He is bound to His perfect character. Justice demands death for sin. But what defines justice and what defines God's perfect character? Is it not God? and if He defines it, does He do so passively by His essence, as we define some things by our essence and other things actively by thinking, or does God actively define even His own very essence, being the only being free to do so? So it is God who appointed the price of our redemption, and what a price it was! God had to die for sinners to be saved. In this we see that the cross was far more about God than it was about us. It was for more a display of His glory in justice than merely a means to save us, though it was not any less that.

(If the second paragraph didn't make sense, still read the third)

So the Second Coming will be big indeed, but it is no miracle that Jesus will come to judge, destroy, create, and reign. It will show His awesome power for the world to see, but the miracle that God would die for us and then rise again is far greater. On the last day, it will be a glorious day, as we will be saved from the effects and presence of sin and death, yet for all eternity we will marvel at the cross and that our God should die for us. The holes in His hands, feet, and side will be there for all eternity. And it is only through the cross that the Second Coming will be as glorious to us as it will be. To those who do not trust the Lord Jesus Christ, it will be a day of doom, darkness, and destruction.

Dispensationalism diminishes that by making the cross plan B, by suggesting that salvation could be attained by man in other dispensations apart from the cross of Jesus, by looking to a future redemption (not from their sin and the wrath of God, but merely physical oppression) of national Israel and by stating that plan A shall be resumed which is nothing more than a mere millennium of Jews living in physical Israel while achieving righteousness by no more than animal sacrifices and keeping of the law. That, my friends, is heresy.


Paragraphs 1,2,3 I can agree with to some degree or another - I understand what you are driving at....so I won't argue the point.
Paragraph 4 is completely unfair and untrue. Calvary was prophesied in the OT on several occasions (Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 are the best examples), so to accuse us of making it "plan B" is absured. The promise made to OT Israel was DUAL in nature. Jesus Christ preached TWO Kingdoms, not one. THe Kingdom of Heaven is a physical kingdom (Heaven is a creation, and includes the entire creation), while the Kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom (God is a Spirit John 4:24, Rom. 14:17).
The sacrifices offered in the OT were required by the Law given them to God. They had to do it. We can see by hindsight how Jesus Christ fulfilled all of those sacrifices, but they could not see it then. They were doing what God said, and if done by faith, trusting in the OT promises they had, then God would forgive them and "save" them.
But not even the 12 disciples understood the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and Jesus taught it to them personally!!! See Matthew 16:21-23 for one example!
The Holy Spirit taught this to the Apostles AFTER Christ's ascension (see JOhn 14:26, 16:13, etc.)
As far as the Millenial Reign of Christ, Israel is saved SPIRITUALLY AND PHYSICALLY. Politically speaking, they become the head of all nations. But it is more than political, because Jesus Christ will demand world-wide WORSHIP at the Temple! So there is a spiritual element to this "salvation" also. And yes, Ezekiel's temple - which is yet future - will have the animal sacrifices present, but not as a means of salvation. Salvation is in Christ. Those sacrifices will be done as a memorial for what has already been done!

The Cross is not a "plan B;" Israel's redemption is not physical and political ONLY; and the Millenial Sacrifices are memorial only!

So your argument is a very bad misrepresentation of our position!

(Nice try though anyway!)
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The 70 weeks were to accomplish 6 things,

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city
1. to finish the transgression,
2. and tomake an end of sins,
3. and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
4. and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
5. and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
6. and to anoint the most Holy.

The abomination of desolation doesn't figure in that, and Luke tells us it was the Roman Armies which were the abomination of desolation, which was already prophecied by our Lord, as a result of the Jews rejection of him.

1, Fulfilled by the jews when the crucified our Lord.
2. Fulfilled by the our Lord on the Cross.
3. Fulfilled by the our Lord on the Cross.
4. Fulfilled by the our Lord on the Cross.
5. Fulfilled by the our Lord at his baptism. Lu 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
6. Fulfilled by the our Lord at his baptism. What could be more holy?


Things that are not equal are not the same:
Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

The only thing that matches here is the term "desolation." While there may be similarities between Luke 21 and Matthew 24, we must "rightly divide" the passages and notice the DIFFERENCES, instead of trying to cram those differences and make them into similarities. Remember, EVERY WORD of God is pure. We are never given the authority to change, alter, dismiss, or allegorize anything in Scripture.

Matthew 24 is clear. The "abomination of desolation" is a particular person who "stands in the holy place." Luke 21 is speaking of a different event. The Matthew 24 passage is matched by Daniel 9, II Thess. 2, and Revelation 13.

The entire Roman Army would not fit "in the holy place," no matter how much you might try to juggle things around to make it fit.
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If you take the passage by itself, here are the weaknesses of the two interpretations:

Non-Dispensationalists:

1. Spiritualize the promises to Israel that follow the 70th week and misapply them to the church.
2. Remove the Abomination of Desolation from the 70th week when it is in the text.


Dispensationalists:

1. Separates the 70th week from the other 69 weeks.


By weakness I mean that it makes it more difficult to explain. Both sides have their way of dealing with these two weaknesses, but I believe that the dispensationalist way of dealing with it leaves the rest of the Bible unscathed. The promises to Israel remain intact, 90% Revelation is read literally as is the Olivet prophecy, Romans 9 and 11 all work with it. The other side stands these things on their head when you buy into what they’re saying here.

If you were to line up the strengths of the two interpretations throughout all the rest of Scripture, side-by-side, I believe that the dispensational view of Eschatology is stronger.

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Things that are not equal are not the same:
Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

The only thing that matches here is the term "desolation." While there may be similarities between Luke 21 and Matthew 24, we must "rightly divide" the passages and notice the DIFFERENCES, instead of trying to cram those differences and make them into similarities. Remember, EVERY WORD of God is pure. We are never given the authority to change, alter, dismiss, or allegorize anything in Scripture.

Matthew 24 is clear. The "abomination of desolation" is a particular person who "stands in the holy place." Luke 21 is speaking of a different event. The Matthew 24 passage is matched by Daniel 9, II Thess. 2, and Revelation 13.

The entire Roman Army would not fit "in the holy place," no matter how much you might try to juggle things around to make it fit.


Absolute nonsense.

If you put all the verses of the three accounts side by side, you will see that they all refer to the same event, which shows that Matthew's "holy place" is Luke's "Jesrusalem" Read from Mark, rather that Matthew. It is more concise and contains all you need to understand the discourse.
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If you take the passage by itself, here are the weaknesses of the two interpretations:

Non-Dispensationalists:

1. Spiritualize the promises to Israel that follow the 70th week and misapply them to the church.
2. Remove the Abomination of Desolation from the 70th week when it is in the text.


Dispensationalists:

1. Separates the 70th week from the other 69 weeks.


By weakness I mean that it makes it more difficult to explain. Both sides have their way of dealing with these two weaknesses, but I believe that the dispensationalist way of dealing with it leaves the rest of the Bible unscathed. The promises to Israel remain intact, 90% Revelation is read literally as is the Olivet prophecy, Romans 9 and 11 all work with it. The other side stands these things on their head when you buy into what they’re saying here.

If you were to line up the strengths of the two interpretations throughout all the rest of Scripture, side-by-side, I believe that the dispensational view of Eschatology is stronger.

Why do you keep claiming the eschatological views you hold all belong to dispensationalists? I know many who hold to the same or nearly the same eschatological views as you yet they reject dispensationalism. A belief in dispensationalism, what many also call Darbyism, is not necessary to hold pre-mil/pre-trib and other eschatological views such as what you espouse.
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Rick:
Non-Dispensationalists:

1. Spiritualize the promises to Israel that follow the 70th week and misapply them to the church.
2. Remove the Abomination of Desolation from the 70th week when it is in the text.


Ian ........
27
And he shall confirm the covena
nt
with many for one week:

Now we are in the 70th week - Jesus confirms the covenant by his earthly ministry, & by the Apostolic preaching after Pentecost, with the week naturally ending with Stephen formally declaring the Jews "uncircumcised." Notice that Messiah is the overall subject, never "the prince." It's "the people" who carry out the destruction. Notice also THE covenant, not A covenant, and that the covenant is neither made nor broken, but is "confirmed." It's Messiah who confirms it. The fact that the Jews are covenant breakers is not stated here.

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the
ob
lation to cease,

By Messiah's sacrifice on Calvary, when the temple veil is rent from above, & all animal sacrifices cease to be effective.
.
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,

In the middle of the 70th week, in Jesus' last week, after specifying in great detail the abominations of the Jews, in Mat. 23, Messiah declared: 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Notice the difference between Dan. 9:38 &11:31 & Mat. 24:15.

even u
nt
il the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

All that remains for the city and the sanctuary is the prophesied destruction.

No gaps, no allegories, nothing symbolic - just a literal reading of Scripture.

Rick - & all dispies - please note: THE Abomination of Desolation .... is NOT in the text. The text reads: for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,
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Why do you keep claiming the eschatological views you hold all belong to dispensationalists? I know many who hold to the same or nearly the same eschatological views as you yet they reject dispensationalism. A belief in dispensationalism, what many also call Darbyism, is not necessary to hold pre-mil/pre-trib and other eschatological views such as what you espouse.


I never said they do. I just used the label to distinguish one side of the room from the other side. I know there are variations, and some people just plain hate the term dispensations even though they believe much of what they teach. If you have a better label let me know and I'd be happy to use it.
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Rick - & all dispies - please note: THE Abomination of Desolation .... is NOT in the text. The text reads: for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,

Ian
Please note: Jesus Christ calls it the "abomination of desolation" and refers us to Daniel!
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
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Why do you keep claiming the eschatological views you hold all belong to dispensationalists? I know many who hold to the same or nearly the same eschatological views as you yet they reject dispensationalism. A belief in dispensationalism, what many also call Darbyism, is not necessary to hold pre-mil/pre-trib and other eschatological views such as what you espouse.

Preterism...which could also be called Origenism or Augustinism or....Catholicism....
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Ian
Please note: Jesus Christ calls it the "abomination of desolation" and refers us to Daniel!
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Steve - you are not being honest with Scripture, nor with me.
Ian: (emphases added & typo corrected.)

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,

In the middle of the 70th week, in Jesus' last week, after specifying in great detail the abominations of the Jews, in Mat. 23, Messiah declared: 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Notice the difference between Dan. 9:38 27 &11:31 & Mat. 24:15.

even u
nt
il the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

All that remains for the city and the sanctuary is the prophesied destruction.

No gaps, no allegories, nothing symbolic - just a literal reading of Scripture.

Dan. 9:27 for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even u
nt
il the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Dan. 11:
31
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.


Mat. 23:
38
Behold, your house is left u
nt
o you desolate.


Mat. 24:
15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)


Notice that within the 70 weeks the abominations are plural - as in Mat. 23, while in Mat. 24 a singular abomination is the signal to flee.
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I never said they do. I just used the label to distinguish one side of the room from the other side. I know there are variations, and some people just plain hate the term dispensations even though they believe much of what they teach. If you have a better label let me know and I'd be happy to use it.

I don't know that there needs to be a label for those who believe in pre-mill/pre-trib but don't see dispensationalism as being biblical. It would just be nice if all those who do believe in pre-mil/pre-trib were not called dispensationalists when they are not.

From what I've read and studied, pre-mil/pre-trib was believed by some long before Darby invented dispensationalism.
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Preterism...which could also be called Origenism or Augustinism or....Catholicism....


You are probably correct about preterism, but futurism comes from the same source, the Jesusits, Bellarmine for one.
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You are probably correct about preterism, but futurism comes from the same source, the Jesusits, Bellarmine for one.

These assertions are silly. None of us rely on quotes from other than Scripture, & most doctrines have been held by adherents of a wide range of theological positions.

Preterism comes from Jesus - his Olivet prophecy. I believe that when he prophesied the destruction, he was prophesying the destruction. I have shown that there is no gap in the 70 weeks - as has Invicta.

I have further pointed out that the gap the thread is all about is to teach that the persecution of the Jews through the church dispensation is God's plan. Though the Jews haven't got that colon in their Hebrew to reassure them that their suffering down the ages is decreed by the God who made his promises to Abraham & his seed - promises that will only be fulfilled to a remnant of a future generation who survive Armageddon. Promises to 1,000 generations are NOT for the 100 generations of Jews living in the Gospel dispensation - aka the dispensation of grace.

Deuteronomy 7:9

Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covena
nt
and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandme
nt
s to a
thousand
generations
;


Psalm 105:8

He hath remembered his covena
nt
for ever, the word which he commanded to a
thousand
generations
.


This "gap" teaching is vilely anti-Jewish, & a slander against the faithfulness of God. God has a Gospel for all people. The generation that rejected their Messiah eventually perished, despite the constant invitations & warnings of the Apostles & first century preachers. They did not perish because of a gap in Daniel's prophecy, but because they rejected the Gospel. You are joining with RCs, Orthodox & Lutherans who persecuted the Jews because they killed Jesus.
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