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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Carnality Test


irishman
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

(To be answered in your heart, do not write out your answers. Be honest, even if it “hurts“)

1. Name three super models.

Fabio, Cindy Crawford, Farrah Fawcett.

2. How much do you spend on television? (cable, satellite, etc.)

I don't have cable, satellite, or anything. We rent movies if they work with our TV Guardian that filters out the cuss words. I own a Playstation 3 and I battle for America's safety against hordes of Russian invaders, occasionally.

--big screen tv?

36"

3. How much do you watch tv?

I don't.

4. What kind of programming (contract) do you have for your cell phone?

I just got a cell phone about a week and a half ago. It's not a smart phone, it's a dumb phone. I got it because it's cheaper than the land line at $35 a month.

5. How many electronic “gadgets” do you own?

I have a laptop and a cell phone.

5. Do you own a boat, motorcycle, or snowmobile?

No.

--How much do you use it?

N/A

--Does it own you?

Is this possible? Do motorcycles go out shopping for riders? Just kidding.

6. Did/do you vote for economic reasons?

Yes.

Other reasons than spiritual principles?

Is there such a thing as a spiritual politician? I do the best I can with what I got.

--Do you have a scripture verse for your reason for voting?

No, but I could probably find one. There's one in Acts that says something like, "Go and seek the asses."

7. Do you have any close friends that are unsaved?

No.

--Hunting, fishing partners, etc. (friends that you run with?)

8. What do you believe about secular education?

It's the pits.

--The more knowledge, the better?

More knowledge addeth sorrow, the Bible says.

9. Do you miss church or church events for family gatherings?

No, church is our family.


10. How is your giving record?

Good.

--can you honestly say that your giving glorifies God?

Yes.

11. Do you sleep with a gun for protection?

No, I have a tripwire minefield out front for that.

--How much do you trust in the gun to deliver you?

Enough to point it at a bad guy and pull the trigger. Multiple times.

12. Do you follow the latest styles when dressing?

What is a style? My wife helps me to not look like I'm wearing 80s clothes.

--does the world decide what you will wear?

No, my wife does.

--Do you try to look “sexy”?

Clothes don't make me look sexy, I just am sexy.

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The one question that I have to shake my head about is the guns.
11. Do you sleep with a gun for protection? I sleep with a 9mm pistols and 12 guage shot gun under my bed, a key in the gun safe to get ahold of the four guns in there ranging from 12 guage to 357 magnum revolver, 12 guage in the closet off the living room (trigger lock). We are fully loaded and ready for actions.
--How much do you trust in the gun to deliver you? I trust the gun to deliver me and children if someone breaks into my house when my husband is not home to protect me. We live in a rural area and had recently had several home envasions down the road. If I dont hit them with the 9mm the 12 guage will. I believe God gave me my two children to do what ever necassary to protect them from harm.

Another thing I dont believe in public education at all,, if I wanted to send them to be indoctrine against God they can get that from an atheist. We also dont believe in sending them to the local private schools due to the fact there is no difference between how the kids dress and public school kids.

We do have regular tv and netflix. We watch a total of 3 hours of TV time a day.
We give as much as we can to others and God but also being able to provide for our childrens needs. The reason why I say that we know of one couple that gave everything to the church including their time and their children had no clothes and very little food to eat. So I think that God expects you to take care of your children and then give the rest to others.

We have several electronics. We have cellphones and an landline phone. Today hubby had an propane tank to start leaking and he called me to let me know.
We dont own a boat or anyother toys like that but we did have but we sold them. As soon as they became a problem that cut into our time with God and family we got rid of them.

I do know one model because they talked about her on the news Lauren Scruggs, she walked into an plane propeller while it was still on.
We dont keep up with the current fashion we look for what covers us up and isnt to tight.

Yes we do have friends that are unsaved but we have witnessed to them about God. We dont run around with them but maybe meet up to do dinner once or twice a year. We are not here to witness to saved people we are here to witness to the lost.

I vote for the ones that follow as many as my beliefs and the economy has no affect on who I vote for.

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A few of you missed the point entirely, like kitagirl, and some saw a flair of sarcasm like bro matt, but some also saw the real questions and the motives concerned. I am reminded of the book that gained some popularity a few years ago called "What would Jesus do?" Though the book was fiction, it posed a good question for us today. One might go so far as to ask themselves "what would Paul do?", so that we might hope to attain.

There is not scripture for all our beliefs of right and wrong, not that we can define and find in black and white. Those who think so have missed something somewhere.

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A few of you missed the point entirely, like kitagirl, and some saw a flair of sarcasm like bro matt, but some also saw the real questions and the motives concerned. I am reminded of the book that gained some popularity a few years ago called "What would Jesus do?" Though the book was fiction, it posed a good question for us today. One might go so far as to ask themselves "what would Paul do?", so that we might hope to attain.

There is not scripture for all our beliefs of right and wrong, not that we can define and find in black and white. Those who think so have missed something somewhere.


I must strongly disagree.

Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105
I'm just inclined to believe that God's lamp is well able to shed it's light on every square inch of the path.
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I know what you are getting at, I think the better thing to ask is


Are you redeeming the time? (Ephesians 5:16)

Do you seek the kingdom of God first? (Matt 6: 33)

Do you set wicked things before you? ( Psalm 101:3)


When you list wordly pursuits it becomes relative. I agree with Kittagirl, your list is totally subjective. When you use God's word there is little little to no wiggle room.

Maybe it's just semantics and in purpose it's the same thing/

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The one question that I have to shake my head about is the guns.
11. Do you sleep with a gun for protection? I sleep with a 9mm pistols and 12 guage shot gun under my bed, a key in the gun safe to get ahold of the four guns in there ranging from 12 guage to 357 magnum revolver, 12 guage in the closet off the living room (trigger lock). We are fully loaded and ready for actions.
--How much do you trust in the gun to deliver you? I trust the gun to deliver me and children if someone breaks into my house when my husband is not home to protect me. We live in a rural area and had recently had several home envasions down the road. If I dont hit them with the 9mm the 12 guage will. I believe God gave me my two children to do what ever necassary to protect them from harm.

Another thing I dont believe in public education at all,, if I wanted to send them to be indoctrine against God they can get that from an atheist. We also dont believe in sending them to the local private schools due to the fact there is no difference between how the kids dress and public school kids.

We do have regular tv and netflix. We watch a total of 3 hours of TV time a day.
We give as much as we can to others and God but also being able to provide for our childrens needs. The reason why I say that we know of one couple that gave everything to the church including their time and their children had no clothes and very little food to eat. So I think that God expects you to take care of your children and then give the rest to others.

We have several electronics. We have cellphones and an landline phone. Today hubby had an propane tank to start leaking and he called me to let me know.
We dont own a boat or anyother toys like that but we did have but we sold them. As soon as they became a problem that cut into our time with God and family we got rid of them.

I do know one model because they talked about her on the news Lauren Scruggs, she walked into an plane propeller while it was still on.
We dont keep up with the current fashion we look for what covers us up and isnt to tight.

Yes we do have friends that are unsaved but we have witnessed to them about God. We dont run around with them but maybe meet up to do dinner once or twice a year. We are not here to witness to saved people we are here to witness to the lost.

I vote for the ones that follow as many as my beliefs and the economy has no affect on who I vote for.

I think the main point with the guns aspect is not a matter of whether it's good or bad to have a gun, but whether or not our trust for protection is in the gun or do we trust God.

While under certain circumstances I would be willing and able to use a weapon to defend my family, my trust is in God. I trust God to keep us safe, I trust God to grant me the wisdom to know if I need to use a weapon, I trust God to grant me the ability to rightly and successfully use a weapon if necessary, and I trust God with the outcome.

On the other hand, there are some who take the view that God's not going to protect them so they have to do it themselves. Some have the idea that if they have a gun they have all the protection they need, they don't need to rely on God.

When David faced Goliath he took his sling and stones but his trust was in the Lord.
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I must strongly disagree.

Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105
I'm just inclined to believe that God's lamp is well able to shed it's light on every square inch of the path.

The point is, Scripture doesn't list every item we may encounter, every situation we may face. We have to learn to take the commands and principles of Scripture and apply them to our daily lives.

For instance, some folks read they are to have no idols and think that doesn't apply to them since they have no statues of a false god in their homes. However, this command goes beyond statues of false gods. The principle extends to anything we place above God. Some people don't think of that and even when they do, unless they receive help to actually consider various things in their lives they wouldn't notice that their "love" of some particular thing in their life which consumes great amounts of money and time has actually become an idol in their lives.
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I know what you are getting at, I think the better thing to ask is


Are you redeeming the time? (Ephesians 5:16)

Do you seek the kingdom of God first? (Matt 6: 33)

Do you set wicked things before you? ( Psalm 101:3)


When you list wordly pursuits it becomes relative. I agree with Kittagirl, your list is totally subjective. When you use God's word there is little little to no wiggle room.

Maybe it's just semantics and in purpose it's the same thing/

Great verses to consider but how do we apply them to our lives if we don't take inventory of the things in our lives? While the list in the OP might not apply to every person, the principle is sound. We should look at the things in our lives in the light of Scripture.

Ephesians 5:16...do we spend too much time watching TV, playing video games, reading worldly magazines, etc.

Matt 6:33...has our favorite hobby become more than just a hobby, something we seek first now?

Psalm 101:3...what sort of stories or pictures are in the magazines we subscribe to, when we go to a sporting event should we sit near the cheerleaders, what are we really seeing when we vist that website, etc.?

We need to examine our lives from time to time and making our own lists for our own use can be helpful in this.
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Excellent answer - God always knows the motive behind the motive. I try to always ask myself when buying things is do I really need it more than the poorest person in my church needs help? Can I justify the expense or the need when I KNOW someone needs food, clothes or financial assistance. I know of many Christians that have four cars, but need only one. Have five bedroom houses and only use one bedroom. Go on vacations often, etc, etc, but there are members in their congregation that eat twice a week or are sick and can't afford the hospital, etc.
When we realise that everything we have belongs to God then I think most of us would manage our finances, our lives etc better.

Amen! Those are excellent questions to consider. If we don't deliberately ask ourselves such things we can very easily get off track or be off track and not even see it.
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LOL @ BroMatt...

By the way, God says that comparing ourselves among ourselves is not wise. Now I know the original test was supposed to be "private" but really...this type of thing encourages us to say things like "Wow. Well I don't even HAVE a tv. I must be better than my neighbor who has two."

"I don't have a motorcycle....that Harley owner must not be as close to God."

"I dress like an Amish person so God is more happy with me than other ladies in church."

(I don't even understand the logic behind the gun one, so I won't go there. Other than Luke 22:

35And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

If we find ourselves thinking such things then the list has served a good purpose in helping to expose our sinful attitude of heart.
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I do not think I missed the point, I just think that I took the question exactly as they were typed. The question I answered is "Name three super models." Knowing the names is not being Carnal. If it was, then God is carnal. I think the question should have been rephrased.
The question that should be asked is, "Is there anything in this world that you put in front of God?"

The gun question, was rather odd also. I mean, when David fought Goliath, did he not have trust in God because he brought a slingshot to the fight? I mean, if he really trusted in God, he wouldn't have brought any weapons at all. I realize that may seem silly, but that is the same principle as this question being presented here.

I'm just trying to present that the objects are not the problem, but rather the heart.

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Wait.....

So, everyone has to be equal? What if God chooses to bless you with something extra? It is good to give things away....We have bought groceries for people before who were in need, and given money to people, etc. Not saying we should not. But to say we shouldn't buy something if someone else is in need....that might be what God wants for you, but that might not be what God wants for everyone.

BTW I don't know any Christians who have four cars haha. I did grow up in a five bedroom home in South Dakota but it wasn't like it was a fancy lavish home. I don't know anybody here who has a five bedroom home, that I know of. Again, we're comparing people to other people when we do not know the whole situation.

Maybe God is blessing one person for being faithful in sacrificial giving, while He is not blessing another because the other doesn't even tithe? Did you think of that? We should help people, but we also should not have to walk around in guilt for buying something that God gives us to enjoy. What if the person with more money works harder for a living than the person with less? Its communistic to think that the one with more ought to give to the one with less, other than just random acts of charity which is always a good thing.

I know people who can afford to take better and nicer vacations than us, but there are others who cannot. We are kind of right in the middle. God has blessed each family according as is in His will. While we should be willing to help the poor (The Bible does say to do that) I do not think it is our command to try to equal out everybody's situations. Because in time, things do often even out....and/or people end up reaping what they sow.

While I absolutely don't believe in the false equality of humanism, Scripture does indicate the early Christians cared so much for one another they took care to help one another so they were all doing well.

Scripture also teaches that to the one who is given more, more is expected. If God grants us more in material goods we are expected to give more. That doesn't mean we have to give all we have to those who have less, but it does mean we should be careful not to become hoarders or overextravegant.

Scripture also makes distinctions between helping the lost poor and helping those in the faith. Those in Christ are our brothers/sisters and we should care for them as such. The lost poor we should help as we can with the main hope in doing so to bring them to Christ.

The world takes very close note of those churches where there may be very wealthy folks and very poor folks and the wealthy build larger garages to hold their collection of sports cars while giving no assistance to their poor brothers/sisters in Christ.

Everything we do is to be to the glory of God and everything we do sends a message.
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We live in a rural area and I want my wife and daughter to have cell phones in case the car breaks down somewhere. I rarely have need of one because I rarely call to just 'chit-chat'. I use my busness phone and email to correspond with customers, then I leave the work at work. I rarely even answer the phones at home.Anyway, you're right; It's not about how much "stuff" we have it's how much "stuff" has us. "Love not the world. neither the things that are in the world......" " ....a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he posesseth"

Amen!
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I would think a little better "carnality test" would be to have a couple people who have a tendency to be blunt and that you know well rate you on a scale of 1-10 on each of the characteristics in 2nd Peter 1:5-7. Hopefully most of us don't require a test and a checklist in order to figure out when we are being carnal though. ;) I dare say Micah 7:4 could apply far to often even in IFB circles.

Edited by Seth-Doty
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I think you can have every answer on that list answered "perfectly" yet still be proud...still tell lies....still gossip...listen to worldly music and have worldly desires...and be an offense to God and as carnal as can be.

Or you can own a gun, know a few supermodels (they're only in every checkout line and every internet news headline), watch a bit of tv, have an unsaved friend, own a motorcycle (great on gas! Wise with God's money??) and absolutely have a great relationship with God.

I don't think I missed the point at all...because the "checklist" isn't a Biblical one.

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance....do we have these things in our lives? Sometimes I think we get so concerned about "looking" right to other Baptists and "acting" right around other Baptists and comparing ourselves among ourselves (which is not wise) that we don't have much love, we have zero joy, we don't have peace, we aren't longsuffering, we aren't gentle or good, we have very little faith, we certainly are not meek, and we only have exterior temperance.

IFB have a big problem worrying so much about the negatives they forget the positives. (And I can definitely say, myself included.)

I'm sorry if I came across too harsh...I'm a little cranky and impatient (yep! negative! haha) this week and I don't mean to take it out on a public forum. But I still mean what I say...if maybe I should have said it in a nicer way. :-)

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LOL @ BroMatt...

By the way, God says that comparing ourselves among ourselves is not wise. Now I know the original test was supposed to be "private" but really...this type of thing encourages us to say things like "Wow. Well I don't even HAVE a tv. I must be better than my neighbor who has two."

"I don't have a motorcycle....that Harley owner must not be as close to God."

"I dress like an Amish person so God is more happy with me than other ladies in church."

(I don't even understand the logic behind the gun one, so I won't go there. Other than Luke 22:

35And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.


I can Amen this one.
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If we find ourselves thinking such things then the list has served a good purpose in helping to expose our sinful attitude of heart.


I suppose the Roman Church would agree with that statement; don't they have a list of saints they pray to for focus on God, sin, etc?
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Wait.....

So, everyone has to be equal? What if God chooses to bless you with something extra? It is good to give things away....We have bought groceries for people before who were in need, and given money to people, etc. Not saying we should not. But to say we shouldn't buy something if someone else is in need....that might be what God wants for you, but that might not be what God wants for everyone.

BTW I don't know any Christians who have four cars haha. I did grow up in a five bedroom home in South Dakota but it wasn't like it was a fancy lavish home. I don't know anybody here who has a five bedroom home, that I know of. Again, we're comparing people to other people when we do not know the whole situation.

Maybe God is blessing one person for being faithful in sacrificial giving, while He is not blessing another because the other doesn't even tithe? Did you think of that? We should help people, but we also should not have to walk around in guilt for buying something that God gives us to enjoy. What if the person with more money works harder for a living than the person with less? Its communistic to think that the one with more ought to give to the one with less, other than just random acts of charity which is always a good thing.

I know people who can afford to take better and nicer vacations than us, but there are others who cannot. We are kind of right in the middle. God has blessed each family according as is in His will. While we should be willing to help the poor (The Bible does say to do that) I do not think it is our command to try to equal out everybody's situations. Because in time, things do often even out....and/or people end up reaping what they sow.


I think you missed my point:


When we realize that everything we have belongs to God then I think most of us would manage our finances, our lives etc better.
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I think the main point with the guns aspect is not a matter of whether it's good or bad to have a gun, but whether or not our trust for protection is in the gun or do we trust God.

While under certain circumstances I would be willing and able to use a weapon to defend my family, my trust is in God. I trust God to keep us safe, I trust God to grant me the wisdom to know if I need to use a weapon, I trust God to grant me the ability to rightly and successfully use a weapon if necessary, and I trust God with the outcome.

On the other hand, there are some who take the view that God's not going to protect them so they have to do it themselves. Some have the idea that if they have a gun they have all the protection they need, they don't need to rely on God.

When David faced Goliath he took his sling and stones but his trust was in the Lord.


I understand now what you mean. We have trusted God for the last 4 years (when we moved here) to protect us but We do have a gun to protect our family as backup. We think of a gun as a means for a back up plan if something happened such as a earthquake, we would be able to hunt for food to feed our kids. I think a gun is a tool not a toy or something that I love more then God. If God told us to get rid of all of them we would do it today.
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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
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      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
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    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
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    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

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      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
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      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
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