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About your last post in the thread "Should I stay or leave".
I don't believe they had cell phones, emails, or blogs at the time "Matthew 18: 15-17" was written.
The point behind the passage is to tell the other person ALONE. So if the man called youon your cell phone privately, I don't see as how he violated Matthew 18 by doing that. If he ran his mouth about it later, and smeared your name, that's a different story.

Edited by heartstrings
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About your last post in the thread "Should I stay or leave".
I don't believe they had cell phones, emails, or blogs at the time "Matthew 18: 15-17" was written.
The point behind the passage is to tell the other person ALONE. So if the man called youon your cell phone privately, I don't see as how he violated Matthew 18 by doing that. If he ran his mouth about it later, and smeared your name, that's a different story.


Sorry, But I disagree. Calling someone on a cellphone is the most cowardly thing a man could do. That is when he is accusing someone of the things I was accused of... If you got something to say to me; you say it to my FACE and not on a cell phone. Period, End of Story. If you're a pastor and you do this; you are a hireling and I will never, ever serve under someone that does not take that King James Bible literally, word for word. Go and tell means GO AND TELL! Not use a cellphone, because you are too much of a cowardly rat to face me.

I guess Ruckman is right, not everyone is a true Baptist KJV believer. Edited by FundyPat
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I believe the conversation should have been in person, not over a phone, cell or otherwise. Talking with someone on the phone is not the same as in person. Such is very impersonal, can give the impression someone isn't worth the time for a personal meeting, can (as mentioned above) appear cowardly, totally leaves out the interaction which can be had on a pesonal level, such as seeing ones body language, facial expressions, etc. Scripture does tell men they should act like men. The manly thing to do is have a personal, face-to-face discussion, not a call on the phone.

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Face to face is good, depends on who you are face to face with. Tried it a few times myself and even had the experience of being threatened with bodily harm by a "man of God". Come to think of it, the Apostle Paul used technology by sending a few of his "rebukes" by letter. I expect he would have emailed if it was available. Much quicker. Cowardly? Maybe. The Bible does say that "a living dog is better than a dead lion".

Edited by heartstrings
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If at all possible, face-to-face is best. This especially if referring to a pastor in such a situation. One could call on the phone to set up an appointment for an in person talk, but the talk itself should be personal, in person.

There is nothing wrong with using technology but there are times for face-to-face talks. Even in the epistles we often read the Apostle wishes he could be there, had tried to come there, or will be there soon. John even makes mention that he has much more to say but won't in the letter but will wait until he arrives in person.

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Face to face is good, depends on who you are face to face with. Tried it a few times myself and even had the experience of being threatened with bodily harm by a "man of God". Come to think of it, the Apostle Paul used technology by sending a few of his "rebukes" by letter. I expect he would have emailed if it was available. Much quicker. Cowardly? Maybe. The Bible does say that "a living dog is better than a dead lion".


Anyone who threatens someone with bodily harm, if they are being confronted as presented in Matthew 18:15-17 has no business being in any sort of a ministry at all.
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I believe the conversation should have been in person, not over a phone, cell or otherwise. Talking with someone on the phone is not the same as in person. Such is very impersonal, can give the impression someone isn't worth the time for a personal meeting, can (as mentioned above) appear cowardly, totally leaves out the interaction which can be had on a pesonal level, such as seeing ones body language, facial expressions, etc. Scripture does tell men they should act like men. The manly thing to do is have a personal, face-to-face discussion, not a call on the phone.


I rest my case.
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If at all possible, face-to-face is best. This especially if referring to a pastor in such a situation. One could call on the phone to set up an appointment for an in person talk, but the talk itself should be personal, in person.

There is nothing wrong with using technology but there are times for face-to-face talks. Even in the epistles we often read the Apostle wishes he could be there, had tried to come there, or will be there soon. John even makes mention that he has much more to say but won't in the letter but will wait until he arrives in person.


Amen.
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Technically, there is no guidelines in scripture dictating when we should leave a church, unless it is a cult, and not an actual church. I hear people speaking of a scriptural reason for leaving, but the Bible clearly admonishes us to unite with a local church, not leave it. There are reasons that I would leave, but I do not look for justification in the scriptures, I would have to admit that it was personal.

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Technically, there is no guidelines in scripture dictating when we should leave a church, unless it is a cult, and not an actual church. I hear people speaking of a scriptural reason for leaving, but the Bible clearly admonishes us to unite with a local church, not leave it. There are reasons that I would leave, but I do not look for justification in the scriptures, I would have to admit that it was personal.


I don't unit with those who deny the Word of God or specifically the King James Bible or don't follow it.
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Romans 16:17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

I am not a "church hopper" as I was a saved member of my church for over 25 years of the 35 years I was there. But It's kind of hard to avoid the "divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine" If the offender is in control of your church..The Bible said to contend for the faith but did it say "contend for the church? Why stay and fight huh? That can't be good. When the "divisions and offenses" became unbearable, I left, not wanting to be the 'rebellious' troublemaker. Even our family is getting along much better. Just last night during band practice we had some of the most fun I think we've ever had. (Proverbs 26:20) But I had immediately searched and found a good church for myself and my family to attend, Because the Bible also says to "forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as the manner of some is........

Edited by heartstrings
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Romans 16:17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

I am not a "church hopper" as I was a saved member of my church for over 25 years of the 35 years I was there. But It's kind of hard to avoid the "divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine" If the offender is in control of your church..The Bible said to contend for the faith but did it say "contend for the church? Why stay and fight huh? That can't be good. When the "divisions and offenses" became unbearable, I left, not wanting to be the 'rebellious' troublemaker. Even our family is getting along much better. Just last night during band practice we had some of the most fun I think we've ever had. (Proverbs 26:20) But I had immediately searched and found a good church for myself and my family to attend, Because the Bible also says to "forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as the manner of some is........

Amen!!!
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I make sure my family is part of a local church. I believe it would be contrary to Scripture to not place one’s self under the authority of a local church and pastor. Therefore, if I moved I would make sure to find the best church in my area, join up, and do everything I could to be a help - even if it wasn't a KJVO church.

That being said, I'm not going to move somewhere unless God tells me to go there. I highly doubt God would move my family to an area where there is no good church, unless he wanted me to start one.

How many people have fallen into the world, and how many marriages have blown up because people moved somewhere that there is no good church (perhaps to make money or some other trivial temporal purpose)?

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I make sure my family is part of a local church. I believe it would be contrary to Scripture to not place one’s self under the authority of a local church and pastor. Therefore, if I moved I would make sure to find the best church in my area, join up, and do everything I could to be a help - even if it wasn't a KJVO church.

That being said, I'm not going to move somewhere unless God tells me to go there. I highly doubt God would move my family to an area where there is no good church, unless he wanted me to start one.

How many people have fallen into the world, and how many marriages have blown up because people moved somewhere that there is no good church (perhaps to make money or some other trivial temporal purpose)?

The church itself, along with Christian parents, is somewhat to blame for this. Just how different are most Christian families when it comes to deciding their future and that of their children, from the world?

Typically, Christian churches and parents teach and promote the same things as the world. Go to college, get a degree, get an advanced degree if you can, go where the money is, have options to fall back on. This is the same thing the world preaches.

Very few teach the biblical concept of seeking the Lord's calling on ones life and then giving oneself fully to that. Often, even if a child feels called of the Lord into a particular area, the parents and church will guide them to give it more time, go to college and get that degree, make sure you have something to fall back on, see about getting into a high paying career and then if you still think God is calling, well, we'll talk about that then. How many men who should have been pastors or missionaries forsook their calling because of such? How many women who should have been the needed wife of a godly man and the mother of his children have forsook such in order to spend years in college followed by more years teaching in some public school?

I've heard Christians say that if there is a problem with a local church, just pack up and move. No talk about praying about the situation, not an idea of having a time of fasting and prayer for guidance, just the idea that if the local church is a problem that's a "sign" God wants you to move! Where? Well, anywhere there happens to be an acceptable church! (I heard this same unbiblical and illogical argument during the time I was looking for a new church home for our family)

Trusting God, seeking God in all things, considering the Lord's eternal purposes for our lives above temporal worldly matters is rare today.
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