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Calvinism on the March


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You know, I once worked with a Muslim (cultural, maybe?) who commonly took God's name in vain and said 'holy cow.' I used to get on his case for swearing God's name; didn't like the second either but was picking my battles, you know? Right before I left that job, he asked me why I hadn't objected to the 'holy cow.' Evidently, he thought that I should have taken offense to both - since in my view, cows weren't holy. He was quite right. Interesting what other religionists think about Christians...


Only is you were a Hindu should you get offended at "holy cow".
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That's encouraging, that the Biblical truth nicknamed "Calvinism" is being more widely accepted. The most faithful churches are the "reformed baptist."

Yes, Paul and Peter warned about false teachers and heresies way back then. I don't care if Augustine, Spurgeon or George Washington taught or believed your "Reformation" "doctrines of grace" or whate

The boring factor is the lack of proper engagement, & the resultant proliferation of "standard" refutations of "Calvinism." "I heard the Gospel, & responded in repentance & faith. It was

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My usual response to someone who uses the Lord's name in vain is - "careful, He's listening, and might just here you calling him" or "SAVES!" So here's my response: "Holy Cow!" - Steak!! and "Jesus!!" - SAVES!!!

Edited by 2Tim215
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What would be best, if you do something that offends someone, don't do it around them any more, & surely don't mock them.

Mt 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

An actually anything more than , "Yea, yea; Nay, nay," is evil.

So the use of slang words, and the defending of them, is not the least bit cute, for it cometh of evil.

Edited by Jerry80871852
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My usual response to someone who uses the Lord's name in vain is - "careful, He's listening, and might just here you calling him" or "SAVES!" So here's my response: "Holy Cow!" - Steak!! and "Jesus!!" - SAVES!!!


I hope you're not accusing me of taking the Lord's name in vain becuase I said "holy cow."
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I hope you're not accusing me of taking the Lord's name in vain becuase I said "holy cow."

Exo. 34:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

But why was there no punishment for Aaron?
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I hope you're not accusing me of taking the Lord's name in vain becuase I said "holy cow."


Not in the slightest, was trying to imply the the futility and painfully childish self righteousness of getting upset because you said it. The things people will pick on sometimes leaves me astonished. I think that there are far more important things to be "offended" over, but then, you did cause offense and you did apologize so - my apologies if you misunderstood me.
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Not in the slightest, was trying to imply the the futility and painfully childish self righteousness of getting upset because you said it. The things people will pick on sometimes leaves me astonished. I think that there are far more important things to be "offended" over, but then, you did cause offense and you did apologize so - my apologies if you misunderstood me.

Not a good idea calling the Lord childish because He clearly tells us in His Word there are certain things reserved for Him and He has much to say about the words we use, the content of our speech and the attitude of our heart which accompanies such.

There are some who say we don't have to keep things holy separate unto God just as there are some who say Christians can use certain cuss words (or all of them) or that "tame" or "Christian" cussing is okay, while some say there is no problem using euphemisims for God, that which is holy, cuss words, etc. Yet the Word of God is clear that none of that is acceptable in His eyes. Christians are called to a far higher standard and perhaps amazingly, many lost folks understand this better than many professing Christians and they are quick to note when our words and coversation don't match what God says.
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Not a good idea calling the Lord childish because He clearly tells us in His Word there are certain things reserved for Him and He has much to say about the words we use, the content of our speech and the attitude of our heart which accompanies such.

There are some who say we don't have to keep things holy separate unto God just as there are some who say Christians can use certain cuss words (or all of them) or that "tame" or "Christian" cussing is okay, while some say there is no problem using euphemisims for God, that which is holy, cuss words, etc. Yet the Word of God is clear that none of that is acceptable in His eyes. Christians are called to a far higher standard and perhaps amazingly, many lost folks understand this better than many professing Christians and they are quick to note when our words and coversation don't match what God says.


Was not implying that the Lord is childish, but then again, He did say we must be as little children. And maybe one day, after I am raptured and in my new perfect body I will be able to live this perfect life of sinless perfection and self righteous "Holiness" I keep on seeing on this site from particular people, but right now, in this body that is lost to sin, I just take each day as it comes and I don't try and pretend to be perfect, or holy or all wise just because it's a forum and no one can see how I actually live. I am a sinner saved by grace and nothing more.
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I'm sorry you fail to see the value in abiding by Scripture. No one that I've noticed here pretends to be perfect but there are several who take the command to be holy for God is holy seriously. We are to aim for the high mark the Lord has set before us even though we can never attain it in this lifetime.

Using your flawed reasoning, Christians could live as they please since they can't be perfect anyway.

No, it's not about "self-righteousness", it's about believing the Word of God and through the power of the Holy Ghost, living in accord with the Word.

If a person is a "sinner saved by grace" they are much more than just that, they are adopted children of God, ambassadors of Christ, etc., and are called to live accordingly.

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And maybe one day, after I am raptured and in my new perfect body I will be able to live this perfect life of sinless perfection and self righteous "Holiness" I keep on seeing on this site from particular people, but right now, in this body that is lost to sin, I just take each day as it comes and I don't try and pretend to be perfect, or holy or all wise just because it's a forum and no one can see how I actually live. I am a sinner saved by grace and nothing more.


Just curious, how do you differentiate between someone offering correction that lines up with scripture and someone pretending to be "perfect or holy or all wise"? Much of the time it is simply a matter of perspective. We all do well to listen to what the book of proverbs says about reproof even though receiving reproof is hard and the first and fleshly reaction of most or all of us is probably to push back and argue for that very reason... Edited by Seth-Doty
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I'm sorry you fail to see the value in abiding by Scripture. No one that I've noticed here pretends to be perfect but there are several who take the command to be holy for God is holy seriously. We are to aim for the high mark the Lord has set before us even though we can never attain it in this lifetime.

Using your flawed reasoning, Christians could live as they please since they can't be perfect anyway.

No, it's not about "self-righteousness", it's about believing the Word of God and through the power of the Holy Ghost, living in accord with the Word.

If a person is a "sinner saved by grace" they are much more than just that, they are adopted children of God, ambassadors of Christ, etc., and are called to live accordingly.


I do not "fail to see the value in abiding by Scripture" - I do however agree that we must AIM for that high mark, but you seem to (in all your posts that I have so far read) try to portray through your comments a lifestyle of perfection. This is impossible as we AIM for that mark and I quote you now - "even though we can never attain it in this lifetime" So why in your replies or comments to me in this thread and others do you "pretend" to be perfect when you yourself maintain it's impossible?
I do not condone a christian "living as they please" and have never condoned it - I do however categorically state that a saved person can live in a state of perpetual sin and still be saved.
And yes it is self righteousness if it's not the truth. Do you sin? If you like the rest of us do, then you do not always live, and I quote you again - "believing the Word of God and through the power of the Holy Ghost, living in accord with the Word" and though we may be called "to live accordingly", we don't always do, do we?


Just curious, how do you differentiate between someone offering correction that lines up with scripture and someone pretending to be "perfect or holy or all wise"? Much of the time it is simply a matter of perspective. We all do well to listen to what the book of proverbs says about reproof even though receiving reproof is hard and the first and fleshly reaction of most or all of us is probably to push back and argue for that very reason...


Seth, read the above to John. I do not have a problem receiving nor taking reproof, advice nor correction when it is in line with the Word, and yes, John in his correction was in line with the Word, yet his manner is not always and neither is his assumptions concerning myself or my doctrine. In this and other posts he continues to maintain that I condone believers living in sin. That I am "unsaved" or was "never saved in the first place" - these are assumptions on his part and his "corrections" purvey these assumptions. I have never condoned believers living in sin but will always emphatically state that no man has the right to judge a man unsaved if he claims Jesus Christ as his savior, only God does. Nor can any man judge a man unsaved if he happens to be living in sin for however long a period of time. So whose perspective is right?
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Again, no one here has said they are perfect or that striving to abide by the Word makes one perfect. Trying to help others live in accord with the Word does not imply perfection on their part or self-righteousness. I once posted a common saying here and one of my brothers here pointed out to me that saying was improper. This was something I had never heard of before. In fact, I knew many Christians who used that saying. I pointed that out to my brother and he let me know the origin of the saying and how it was not in accord with Scripture. Such correction on his part was not a matter of him being self-righteous nor did I take offense or think he must consider himself to be perfect because he addressed the issue.

Learning and repenting leads to growth in Christ and I'm thankful for all who have helped and continue to help me and other brothers/sisters in Christ in this.

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Again, no one here has said they are perfect or that striving to abide by the Word makes one perfect.(good to know, I was beginning to get worried that I was the only sinning believer on this forum) :clapping:Trying to help others live in accord with the Word does not imply perfection on their part or self-righteousness.(I agree, though sometimes some come across that way) I once posted a common saying here and one of my brothers here pointed out to me that saying was improper. This was something I had never heard of before. In fact, I knew many Christians who used that saying. I pointed that out to my brother and he let me know the origin of the saying and how it was not in accord with Scripture. Such correction on his part was not a matter of him being self-righteous nor did I take offense or think he must consider himself to be perfect because he addressed the issue.(I am not in the least offended - been around IFB's far too long to easily get offended)

Learning and repenting leads to growth in Christ and I'm thankful for all who have helped and continue to help me and other brothers/sisters in Christ in this. (Amen - agree 100%) - are we friends now? Or do we still get to bash each other around a bit :knuppel:
Edited by 2Tim215
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I'm glad we seem to have a measure of understanding here. It can be easy to read too much into a post since we don't have tone, body language and such to help. For this reason I try to be clear, though it's not always easy, and especially so with folks unfamiliar with ones postings and life. To make it simple, if I ever think I'm perfect, I'll announce it in bold letters :icon_smile: then I'm sure to get some direct responses! :eye:
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Calvinism shares alot of its 'theology' with Islam; a selfish god devoid of love. A god in the likeness of sinful man. The only real god with those attributes is the god of this world...the Devil. Muslims will kill you for saying things like this; I wonder how far staunch Calvinists would go?

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49 minutes ago, Thaddeus said:

This is Calvinism...let's blame God.

 

I agree, Scott...I speak as a former Calvinist, who was trained in the College of Rev Dr Ian Paisley, in Northern Ireland.

It's an evil and demonic system.

I am a former Calvinist and Lordship Salvationist as well. I was for five years. I was finally excommunicated and shunned from my former church, GraceLife Church of Edmonton. It is a cult and is to be avoided!

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Extreme Sovereignty= The Worst Doctrine in the Body of Christ!! Exposed.
The belief that God controls everything that happens to us is one of the devil’s biggest inroads into our lives. If this belief is true, then our actions are irrelevant, and our efforts are meaningless. What will be will be.

If we believe that God wills everything, good or bad, to happen to us, it gives us some temporary relief from confusion and condemnation, but in the long-term, it slanders God, hinders our trust in God, and leads to passiveness.
t is assumed that since God is paramount or supreme that nothing can happen without His approval. That is not what the Scriptures teach. In 2 Peter 3:9, Peter said, “The Lord is…not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” This clearly states that it is not the Lord’s will for anyone to perish, but people are perishing. Jesus said, “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat” (Matt. 7:13). Relatively few people are saved compared to the number that are lost. God’s will for people concerning salvation is not being accomplished.

This is because the Lord gave us the freedom to choose. He doesn’t will anyone into hell. He paid for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2; 1 Tim. 4:10), but we must choose to put our faith in Christ and receive His salvation. People are the ones choosing hell by not choosing Jesus as their Savior. It is the free will of man that damns them, not God.

People virtually have to climb over the roadblocks that God puts in their way to continue on their course to hell. The cross of Christ and the drawing power of the Holy Spirit are obstacles that every sinner encounters. No one will ever stand before God and be able to fault Him for withholding the opportunity to be saved. The Lord woos every person to Him, but we have to cooperate. Ultimately, the Lord simply enforces the consequences of people’s own choices.

God has a perfect plan for every person’s life (Jer. 29:11), but He doesn’t make us walk that path. We are free moral agents with the ability to choose. He has told us what the right choices are (Deut. 30:19), but He doesn’t make those choices for us. God gave us the power to control our destinies.
Man has been given the authority over his own life, but he must have the Lord’s direction to succeed. Jeremiah 10:23 says, “O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.” God created us to be dependent upon Him and our independence is at the root of all our problems. As if it wasn’t bad enough for man to try to run his affairs independently of God and His standards, it has been made even worse by religion teaching us that all our problems are actually blessings from God. That is a faith killer. It makes people totally passive.

James 4:7 says, “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” This verse makes it clear that some things are from God, and some from the devil. We must submit to the things that are of God and resist the things that are from the devil. The word “resist” means, “Actively fight against.” Saying “Whatever will be will be” is not actively fighting against the devil.

If a person really believed that God is the one who put sickness on them because He is trying to work something for good in their life, then they should not go to the doctor or take any medicine. That would be resisting God’s plans. They should let the sickness run its course and thereby get the full benefit of God’s correction. Of course, no one advocates that. That is absurd. It is even more absurd to believe that God is the one behind the tragedy.

Acts 10:38 says that Jesus healed all those who were oppressed OF THE DEVIL. It was not God who oppressed them with sickness. It was the devil. It’s the same today. Sickness is from the devil, not from God. We need to resist sickness and, by faith, submit ourselves to healing, which is from God through the atonement of Christ.
od is sovereign in the sense that He is paramount and supreme. There is no one higher in authority or power, but that does not mean He exercises His power by controlling everything in our lives. God has given us the freedom to choose. He has a plan for us. He seeks to reveal that plan to us and urge us in that direction, but we choose. He doesn’t make our choices for us.

In many instances, it is our wrong choices that bring disaster upon us. In other cases, our problems are nothing but an attack from the devil. In some cases, natural forces of an imperfect world cause us pain. Our tragedies are never the judgment or correction of God. Jesus came to give us abundant life. The devil came to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10). Don’t ever get that confused. If it’s good, it’s God. If it’s bad, it’s the devil.

This is a fundamental doctrine of Christianity that must be understood properly if you want victory in your life. Believing that God controls everything renders a person passive. Why pray and believe for something better? Whatever God wants will come to pass. That simply is not true.

The Lord is the answer to all our problems. He is not the problem.
http://www.awmi.net/series/this-weeks-tv/

God Would Have ALL Men to be Saved!!
 
2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
 
1Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. == A stake in the false teaching Calvinism's heart!
 
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On 10/17/2011 at 6:06 PM, anime4christ said:


If that is so, then God was less glorious before creation than after. If God had to earn glory, then He was less glorious before (even not glorious at all at the beginning). Such a God is then dependent on His creation to become more or less glorious. The Bible does not teach that.

God is already infinitely glorious. His intention to magnify His glory is not to gain more, but rather to display the full extent of the glory that He already has. This includes displaying His glory in love and in judgment. The Bible clearly says that.


"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." - Eph 1:4-6 (His glory displayed in love)


"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?" - Romans 9:22-24 (His glory displayed in judgment)

Could the word chosen in Ephesians 1:4 not mean that God had chosen to redeem man, through the Cross, rather than a certain group of people who had no say? I can read Ephesians 1:4-6 and Romans 9:22-24 and not see any Calvinism or "election" at all. God's plan was already established before the foundation of the world. (1 Peter 1:19-20)(Revelation 13:8) Also, Galatians 4:3-7 doesn't seem to mention "The Elect" but rather those under the law. Galatians 1:4 also never mentions the elect. God knew His plan of salvation before He made the world. He Predestinated those who would accept Him (John 1:12, and the 11 verses before it really). I see where Calvinists can get this from, especially in places like Romans 9, but I feel like you have to "Predestinate" the verses to support Calvinism to actually get them to. 

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