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2 Chronicles 7:14


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There are plenty of unsaved people who can recite the creeds, (... I believe in Jesus Christ his only son our Lord ...) whose lives are evil. They are NOT my people. They do evil & are hell-bound sinners. The command to them is to repent.

A true Christian cannot practise evil.


So, as a Christian I can never commit/practice evil? I simply can not agree with you on that. I see too many examples in the Bible of those who were Christians who chose to do things that were evil.
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I think if America were to turn back to God as a whole, then America would be God's people and the verse would apply. The chance of that actually happening, though, is slim to nil.

(For a cross reference, see Ninevah.)


America has never been nor will it ever be "God's people." Are there Christians in this nation? Certainly! And those people are God's people. The Bible is clear that God's people are Christians not a specific nation.
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I think if America were to turn back to God as a whole, then America would be God's people and the verse would apply. The chance of that actually happening, though, is slim to nil.

(For a cross reference, see Ninevah.)

That generation of Ninevites was spared, but the Ninevites did not become my people, which are called by my name.

They did, however, at the preaching of Jonah, humble themselves, and pray, and seek [the Lord's] face, and turn from their wicked ways; and according to his nature (understood by Jonah) God heard from heaven, and forgave their sin, and did heal their land.

I'm sure that if any nation behaved like the Ninevites, God would act according to his gracious nature. No particular nation now is my people, which are called by my name. That is the privilege of Christian believers as Peter affirms. (1 Pet. 2) Any nation that repented on a massive scale would expect blessings from God. We have seen this in Britain & Switzerland, & possibly other countries.
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So, as a Christian I can never commit/practice evil? I simply can not agree with you on that. I see too many examples in the Bible of those who were Christians who chose to do things that were evil.


Please give some examples from Scripture. Include Rom. 6 in your answer.
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Please give some examples from Scripture. Include Rom. 6 in your answer.


Ananias and Spphira in Acts 5 lied to the holy spirit. Simon in Acts 8 thought he could buy the gift of God. Demas left Paul because he loved the world more than the truth in 2 Tim 4:10. I could list more but these three should be enough.

What about Romans 6? It says that the old man is crucified and we become a new creature; it DOES NOT say that we become a perfect person and thus do not ever choose to do something which is evil.
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Ananias and Spphira in Acts 5 lied to the holy spirit. Simon in Acts 8 thought he could buy the gift of God. Demas left Paul because he loved the world more than the truth in 2 Tim 4:10. I could list more but these three should be enough.

What about Romans 6? It says that the old man is crucified and we become a new creature; it DOES NOT say that we become a perfect person and thus do not ever choose to do something which is evil.

It's clear that Ananias, Sapphira & Simon were not true born-again Christians. Scripture records their condemnation. I am not talking about stumbling in our walk with our Saviour. If one practises evil, as these did, they are lost - never saved, despite their profession. Read Rom. 6 again.

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

9Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

20But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

Add the papacy, JWs, etc, & the megachurch leaders to your list of evil doers who believe in Jesus. What will Jesus say?

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
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It's clear that Ananias, Sapphira & Simon were not true born-again Christians. Scripture records their condemnation. I am not talking about stumbling in our walk with our Saviour. If one practises evil, as these did, they are lost - never saved, despite their profession. Read Rom. 6 again.

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

9Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

20But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

Add the papacy, JWs, etc, & the megachurch leaders to your list of evil doers who believe in Jesus. What will Jesus say?

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:



In no way is it clear that they were not Christians. Just the opposite, it is quite clear that they were Christians. In the case of Ananias and Sapphira, go back to Acts 4:31 and read all of this in context. Continue to read in chapter 5. They were part of the church. They were Christians. In relation to Simon, it is even more clear that he was a Christian. Begin in Acts 8:12. Notice that Simon did exactly what the others did. It says they believed and were baptized. It says that he believed and was baptized. Clearly if he was not truly saved then none of the others were either.

I have read Romans 6 countless times. It does not say what you are attempting to make it say.

If you desire to ignore clear examples in order to justify your own view, then I see no reason to continue our conversation on this subject. As I have stated on previous discussions, I see no reason to argue just to be argueing.
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Saved people are still sinners - saved by grace. The flesh is still capable of sin. Paul said it well in Romans 7




For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
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If II Chronicles 7:14 can be applied to a Christians life (to which I concur) then so can this promise IMO.

Hosea 4:6-

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Edited by Wilchbla
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If II Chronicles 7:14 can be applied to a Christians life (to which I concur) then so can this promise IMO.

Hosea 4:6-

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

2 Cor. 1:18But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay.
19For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

As Christian believers, all the promises are ours in Christ.

There is a significant difference between OC Israel & NC Israel+the church. The natural descendants of Abraham comprised Israel, as a nation, regardless of faith. Physical circumcision was the OC sign, but heart circumcision marked the true, believing Israel. Deu. 30:6And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. The NC Church/Israel comprises only true believers, baptised by the Holy Spirit into Christ. 1 Cr. 12:12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Therefore the warnings against rebellious OC Israel to not apply to NC Israel/Church. There are, of course many professing Christians, baptised into the churches who are not true believers & are living a lie.
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has anyone considered Galations 3?

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Actually, most of the entire chapter tells us that we are God's people through Christ.
If someone chooses to reject the promise of God, they reject Him. I would prefer to be called "The people of God" instead of rejecting the thought.

Edited by irishman
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has anyone considered Galations 3?

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Actually, most of the entire chapter tells us that we are God's people through Christ.
If someone chooses to reject the promise of God, they reject Him. I would prefer to be called "The people of God" instead of rejecting the thought.

Yes. John, Jesus, Stephen & Paul carefully explained that Jews who rejected their Messiah were not children of Abraham.

Mat. 3:9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father:

John 8:39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil,

Acts 7:51Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Phil. 3:2Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

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Those of us who are saved are children of Abraham and we are God's people.
The way I interpret it is; If just God's people would heed 2 Chronicles 7:14; not the rest of America, just the blood-bought believers, God would heal the land. The verse wasn't written to lost people in Israel or America or in any other nation. It was written to the believers: God said "my people"

Edited by heartstrings
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Therefore the warnings against rebellious OC Israel to not apply to NC Israel/Church. There are, of course many professing Christians, baptised into the churches who are not true believers & are living a lie.


LOL. I love the spin. Now, you know that Romans 6:23 is actually speaking to a believer as well as I Corinthians 10:10? Or are they just speaking to disobedient Jews within the church since you seem to have a hard time with Jews.

I love how we get to claim the positive promises of God yet we escape the negative ones. There just for disobedient Jews. Wow. Just wow. Edited by Wilchbla
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LOL. I love the spin. Now, you know that Romans 6:23 is actually speaking to a believer as well as I Corinthians 10:10? Or are they just speaking to disobedient Jews within the church since you seem to have a hard time with Jews.

Have you noticed that v. 22 goes before v.23 ?
Rom 6:22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I love how we get to claim the positive promises of God yet we escape the negative ones. There just for disobedient Jews. Wow. Just wow.
That is the wonder of the Gospel. Wow indeed! Or rather Rom. 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

11:33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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