Members Dr. Roberson Posted August 30, 2011 Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 2 Chronicles 7:14 14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.Can Americans today, claim that verse? Can we as a nation claim this promis from God for America?Personally, I belive so but I came across a conversation the other day where someone was saying no. It was a promise from God to Solomon for the nation of Israel and should not be claimed by Americans. What say you all? Dr Roberson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dantheman2 Posted August 30, 2011 Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 2 Chronicles 7:1414 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.Can Americans today, claim that verse? Can we as a nation claim this promis from God for America?Personally, I belive so but I came across a conversation the other day where someone was saying no. It was a promise from God to Solomon for the nation of Israel and should not be claimed by Americans. What say you all? Dr Roberson It was specifically spoken for the Children of Israel. I believe the general principle applies to God's people (Christians) but again the specific statement is to the children of Israel. No specific nation is God's people today. All who are saved are his people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Seth Doty Posted August 30, 2011 Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 It was specifically spoken for the Children of Israel. I believe the general principle applies to God's people (Christians) but again the specific statement is to the children of Israel. No specific nation is God's people today. All who are saved are his people. I agree that specifically the verse was/is directed to Israel but practically it has broad general application to Christians as well. God is always more inclined to work mightily when his people by and large are following his will. LindaR, Pastor Matt and JerryNumbers 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members irishman Posted August 31, 2011 Members Share Posted August 31, 2011 I believe we put too much emphasis on whom God spoke certain words to. Isn't the Bible for all of us? Too often we focus on the context, and fail to see the content of scripture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Pastor Matt Posted August 31, 2011 Administrators Share Posted August 31, 2011 I agree that even though the specific statement is to the children of Israel, that the principle still applies to Christians. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dantheman2 Posted August 31, 2011 Members Share Posted August 31, 2011 I believe we put too much emphasis on whom God spoke certain words to. Isn't the Bible for all of us? Too often we focus on the context, and fail to see the content of scripture. All the Bible is there for man and is beneficial to man but not all things in the Bible apply to man as a whole nor to the Christian specifically. Who today is commanded to build an ark to escape a great flood? Ignore the context and you will create a pretext. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted August 31, 2011 Members Share Posted August 31, 2011 2 Chronicles 7:1414 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.Can Americans today, claim that verse? Can we as a nation claim this promis from God for America?Personally, I belive so but I came across a conversation the other day where someone was saying no. It was a promise from God to Solomon for the nation of Israel and should not be claimed by Americans. What say you all? It's not for any nation in New Covenant days. The people of God are redeemed [us] to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and are a called out people, not a nation in the normal sense of the word. Peter's assurance that we are a holy nation does not mean that. 9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; 10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. Are the US or UK the people of God? Of course not, & even when Christians are in such numbers to have a significant influence on the nation, we cannot claim to be, as a nation. Reading the text, we see that it can only apply to the nation of Israel, who were collectively called my people even in rebellion, or when their ways were wicked. If Christian believers are wicked, they cannot be true believers. However, if any group of believers which has gone astray, e.g. through bad leadership, prays in that way they can expect to be restored according to the promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr. Roberson Posted August 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Ah.. the plot/pot thickens!... Dr. Roberson Edited August 31, 2011 by Dr. Roberson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dantheman2 Posted August 31, 2011 Members Share Posted August 31, 2011 It's not for any nation in New Covenant days. The people of God are redeemed [us] to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and are a called out people, not a nation in the normal sense of the word. Peter's assurance that we are a holy nation does not mean that. 9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. Are the US or UK the people of God? Of course not, & even when Christians are in such numbers to have a significant influence on the nation, we cannot claim to be, as a nation. Reading the text, we see that it can only apply to the nation of Israel, who were collectively called my people even in rebellion, or when their ways were wicked. If Christian believers are wicked, they cannot be true believers. However, if any group of believers which has gone astray, e.g. through bad leadership, prays in that way they can expect to be restored according to the promise. Are you suggesting that I can not believe in Christ and still choose to do evil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted September 1, 2011 Members Share Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) Are you suggesting that I can not believe in Christ and still choose to do evil? Yes. Christians are not perfect - we fail the great commandments - but we do have a new nature - we have been born again by the Spirit of God. If we practise evil, we are not living as Christians & the evidence of our lives is that we are evil doers & NOT Christians. We may stumble & sin in our walk with God, but we should be quick to repent & return to our Saviour.John 3:18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.Romans 6: 1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Edited September 1, 2011 by Covenanter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dantheman2 Posted September 1, 2011 Members Share Posted September 1, 2011 Yes. Christians are not perfect - we fail the great commandments - but we do have a new nature - we have been born again by the Spirit of God. If we practise evil, we are not living as Christians & the evidence of our lives is that we are evil doers & NOT Christians. We may stumble & sin in our walk with God, but we should be quick to repent & return to our Saviour.John 3:18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.Romans 6: 1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. The Bible says that even the devils believe and tremble. They still do evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted September 1, 2011 Members Share Posted September 1, 2011 The Bible says that even the devils believe and tremble. They still do evil. Are you then suggesting that the devils are my people, which are called by my name ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dantheman2 Posted September 1, 2011 Members Share Posted September 1, 2011 Are you then suggesting that the devils are my people, which are called by my name ??? Of course not, but I am saying that I can believe in Christ as the son of God and still make the choice to do evil. I know many people who believe that Jesus is the son of God who not only choose not to become a Christian but do much evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted September 1, 2011 Members Share Posted September 1, 2011 Of course not, but I am saying that I can believe in Christ as the son of God and still make the choice to do evil. I know many people who believe that Jesus is the son of God who not only choose not to become a Christian but do much evil. There are plenty of unsaved people who can recite the creeds, (... I believe in Jesus Christ his only son our Lord ...) whose lives are evil. They are NOT my people. They do evil & are hell-bound sinners. The command to them is to repent. A true Christian cannot practise evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted September 1, 2011 Members Share Posted September 1, 2011 I think if America were to turn back to God as a whole, then America would be God's people and the verse would apply. The chance of that actually happening, though, is slim to nil. (For a cross reference, see Ninevah.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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