2 Chronicles 7:14

[Dr. Roberson]

2 Chronicles 7:14

14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Can Americans today, claim that verse? Can we as a nation claim this promis from God for America?
Personally, I belive so but I came across a conversation the other day where someone was saying no. It was a promise from God to Solomon for the nation of Israel and should not be claimed by Americans.

What say you all?



Dr Roberson

[dantheman2]

2 Chronicles 7:14

14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Can Americans today, claim that verse? Can we as a nation claim this promis from God for America?
Personally, I belive so but I came across a conversation the other day where someone was saying no. It was a promise from God to Solomon for the nation of Israel and should not be claimed by Americans.

What say you all?



Dr Roberson

It was specifically spoken for the Children of Israel. I believe the general principle applies to God's people (Christians) but again the specific statement is to the children of Israel.

No specific nation is God's people today. All who are saved are his people.

[Seth Doty]

It was specifically spoken for the Children of Israel. I believe the general principle applies to God's people (Christians) but again the specific statement is to the children of Israel.

No specific nation is God's people today. All who are saved are his people.

I agree that specifically the verse was/is directed to Israel but practically it has broad general application to Christians as well. God is always more inclined to work mightily when his people by and large are following his will.

[irishman]

I believe we put too much emphasis on whom God spoke certain words to. Isn't the Bible for all of us? Too often we focus on the context, and fail to see the content of scripture.

[PastorMatt]

I agree that even though the specific statement is to the children of Israel, that the principle still applies to Christians. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

[dantheman2]

I believe we put too much emphasis on whom God spoke certain words to. Isn't the Bible for all of us? Too often we focus on the context, and fail to see the content of scripture.

All the Bible is there for man and is beneficial to man but not all things in the Bible apply to man as a whole nor to the Christian specifically. Who today is commanded to build an ark to escape a great flood?

Ignore the context and you will create a pretext.

[Covenanter]

2 Chronicles 7:14

14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Can Americans today, claim that verse? Can we as a nation claim this promis from God for America?
Personally, I belive so but I came across a conversation the other day where someone was saying no. It was a promise from God to Solomon for the nation of Israel and should not be claimed by Americans.

What say you all?

It's not for any nation in New Covenant days. The people of God are redeemed [us] to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and are a called out people, not a nation in the normal sense of the word. Peter's assurance that we are a holy nation does not mean that. ⁹But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
¹⁰Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Are the US or UK the people of God? Of course not, & even when Christians are in such numbers to have a significant influence on the nation, we cannot claim to be, as a nation.

Reading the text, we see that it can only apply to the nation of Israel, who were collectively called my people even in rebellion, or when their ways were wicked. If Christian believers are wicked, they cannot be true believers.

However, if any group of believers which has gone astray, e.g. through bad leadership, prays in that way they can expect to be restored according to the promise.

[Dr. Roberson]

Ah.. the plot/pot thickens!...


Dr. Roberson

Edited August 31, 2011 by Dr. Roberson

[dantheman2]

It's not for any nation in New Covenant days. The people of God are redeemed [us] to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and are a called out people, not a nation in the normal sense of the word. Peter's assurance that we are a holy nation does not mean that. ⁹But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
¹⁰Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Are the US or UK the people of God? Of course not, & even when Christians are in such numbers to have a significant influence on the nation, we cannot claim to be, as a nation.

Reading the text, we see that it can only apply to the nation of Israel, who were collectively called my people even in rebellion, or when their ways were wicked. If Christian believers are wicked, they cannot be true believers.

However, if any group of believers which has gone astray, e.g. through bad leadership, prays in that way they can expect to be restored according to the promise.

Are you suggesting that I can not believe in Christ and still choose to do evil?

[Covenanter]

Are you suggesting that I can not believe in Christ and still choose to do evil?

Yes.

Christians are not perfect - we fail the great commandments - but we do have a new nature - we have been born again by the Spirit of God. If we practise evil, we are not living as Christians & the evidence of our lives is that we are evil doers & NOT Christians.

We may stumble & sin in our walk with God, but we should be quick to repent & return to our Saviour.

John 3:¹⁸He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
¹⁹And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
²⁰For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
²¹But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


Romans 6: ¹What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
²God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
³Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
⁴Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Edited September 1, 2011 by Covenanter

[dantheman2]

Yes.

Christians are not perfect - we fail the great commandments - but we do have a new nature - we have been born again by the Spirit of God. If we practise evil, we are not living as Christians & the evidence of our lives is that we are evil doers & NOT Christians.

We may stumble & sin in our walk with God, but we should be quick to repent & return to our Saviour.

John 3:¹⁸He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
¹⁹And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
²⁰For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
²¹But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


Romans 6: ¹What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
²God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
³Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
⁴Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The Bible says that even the devils believe and tremble. They still do evil.

[Covenanter]

The Bible says that even the devils believe and tremble. They still do evil.

Are you then suggesting that the devils are my people, which are called by my name ???

[dantheman2]

Are you then suggesting that the devils are my people, which are called by my name ???

Of course not, but I am saying that I can believe in Christ as the son of God and still make the choice to do evil. I know many people who believe that Jesus is the son of God who not only choose not to become a Christian but do much evil.

[Covenanter]

Of course not, but I am saying that I can believe in Christ as the son of God and still make the choice to do evil. I know many people who believe that Jesus is the son of God who not only choose not to become a Christian but do much evil.

There are plenty of unsaved people who can recite the creeds, (... I believe in Jesus Christ his only son our Lord ...) whose lives are evil. They are NOT my people. They do evil & are hell-bound sinners. The command to them is to repent.

A true Christian cannot practise evil.

[Anon]

I think if America were to turn back to God as a whole, then America would be God's people and the verse would apply. The chance of that actually happening, though, is slim to nil.

(For a cross reference, see Ninevah.)

[dantheman2]

There are plenty of unsaved people who can recite the creeds, (... I believe in Jesus Christ his only son our Lord ...) whose lives are evil. They are NOT my people. They do evil & are hell-bound sinners. The command to them is to repent.

A true Christian cannot practise evil.

So, as a Christian I can never commit/practice evil? I simply can not agree with you on that. I see too many examples in the Bible of those who were Christians who chose to do things that were evil.

[dantheman2]

I think if America were to turn back to God as a whole, then America would be God's people and the verse would apply. The chance of that actually happening, though, is slim to nil.

(For a cross reference, see Ninevah.)

America has never been nor will it ever be "God's people." Are there Christians in this nation? Certainly! And those people are God's people. The Bible is clear that God's people are Christians not a specific nation.

[Covenanter]

I think if America were to turn back to God as a whole, then America would be God's people and the verse would apply. The chance of that actually happening, though, is slim to nil.

(For a cross reference, see Ninevah.)

That generation of Ninevites was spared, but the Ninevites did not become my people, which are called by my name.

They did, however, at the preaching of Jonah, humble themselves, and pray, and seek [the Lord's] face, and turn from their wicked ways; and according to his nature (understood by Jonah) God heard from heaven, and forgave their sin, and did heal their land.

I'm sure that if any nation behaved like the Ninevites, God would act according to his gracious nature. No particular nation now is my people, which are called by my name. That is the privilege of Christian believers as Peter affirms. (1 Pet. 2) Any nation that repented on a massive scale would expect blessings from God. We have seen this in Britain & Switzerland, & possibly other countries.

[Covenanter]

So, as a Christian I can never commit/practice evil? I simply can not agree with you on that. I see too many examples in the Bible of those who were Christians who chose to do things that were evil.

Please give some examples from Scripture. Include Rom. 6 in your answer.

[dantheman2]

Please give some examples from Scripture. Include Rom. 6 in your answer.

Ananias and Spphira in Acts 5 lied to the holy spirit. Simon in Acts 8 thought he could buy the gift of God. Demas left Paul because he loved the world more than the truth in 2 Tim 4:10. I could list more but these three should be enough.

What about Romans 6? It says that the old man is crucified and we become a new creature; it DOES NOT say that we become a perfect person and thus do not ever choose to do something which is evil.