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Where do we draw the line for IFB?


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 

I am not surprised you agree. You said you were a ruckmanite when you joined the board recently I recall. Further I said that he claims the KJV was re-inspired which he does, and that he believes that the original(original being used in the sense here that everyone but ruckman and ruckmanites typically use it in) greek and hebrew are corrupted which he does, and that he believes the KJV contains advanced revelation not found in the greek or hebrew which he does. Please stick to what I actually said rather than attempting to re-define it as a statement that "the bible lost inspiration". You and I both know that that isn't his position, his position is more along the general lines that the bible itself was "lost" or corrupted I suppose at some undefined point prior to 1611, and that it was "re-given" and "purified" in 1611 and that the KJV is now the only completely reliable bible today in any language.

Once again, this simply is not his or my position. You have yet to substantiate these claims but keep repeating them over and over. Yes I do identify as a Ruckmanite in order to remove it as a pejoritive insult from people who oppose the absolute perfection of the AV. Let me make my position on the Bible very clear: I believe the Authorized King James Bible is the perfect, preserved word of God. It is superior to all other texts and is therefore able to correct them all. I do not believe that the Bible was somehow "lost" and was therefore re-inspired by the AV translators. I don't know of anybody who does believe that. 

 

You know, this is such a pitiful argument. God has set his seal of "approval" on the the "english text of 1611" On what grounds? This mythical "seal of approval" is somehow solid proof of something while faith that God has kept his promise to continually preserve his word as he promised in the scriptures is "hazarding a guess" at what the originals(narrowly defined) said? 

 

What defines "seal of approval" anyway? Is it something solid enough that you are brave enough to base everything you know about God on it?

Where did God promise to preserve his word in the original languages only? By God's seal of approval I mean his clear and unmistakable usage of the AV above all other competing texts. It is also evident that since the advent of the modern-version movement there has been a near universal apostasy in the English speaking world. One needs look only at the sorry state of "Christianity" in America today to see the fruit of rejecting the God-honored text that came out of the protestant reformation. 

 

Look, if you don't like Dr. Ruckman that's fine. We all have preachers we favor or don't enjoy much. That being said, it is wrong of you to mischaracterize his position and label it as "heresy". If believing the Bible that God has provided me as the perfect word of God is heresy, you can count me as a heretic. 

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Once again, this simply is not his or my position. You have yet to substantiate these claims but keep repeating them over and over. Yes I do identify as a Ruckmanite in order to remove it as a pejoritive insult from people who oppose the absolute perfection of the AV. Let me make my position on the Bible very clear: I believe the Authorized King James Bible is the perfect, preserved word of God. It is superior to all other texts and is therefore able to correct them all. I do not believe that the Bible was somehow "lost" and was therefore re-inspired by the AV translators. I don't know of anybody who does believe that. 

Where did God promise to preserve his word in the original languages only? By God's seal of approval I mean his clear and unmistakable usage of the AV above all other competing texts. It is also evident that since the advent of the modern-version movement there has been a near universal apostasy in the English speaking world. One needs look only at the sorry state of "Christianity" in America today to see the fruit of rejecting the God-honored text that came out of the protestant reformation. 

 

Look, if you don't like Dr. Ruckman that's fine. We all have preachers we favor or don't enjoy much. That being said, it is wrong of you to mischaracterize his position and label it as "heresy". If believing the Bible that God has provided me as the perfect word of God is heresy, you can count me as a heretic. 

 

I have a question for you, but I don't want to hijack this any longer. Mind continuing this in the Biblical issues forum under 'Preservation & Inspiration'?  :)

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Once again, this simply is not his or my position. You have yet to substantiate these claims but keep repeating them over and over. Yes I do identify as a Ruckmanite in order to remove it as a pejoritive insult from people who oppose the absolute perfection of the AV. Let me make my position on the Bible very clear: I believe the Authorized King James Bible is the perfect, preserved word of God. It is superior to all other texts and is therefore able to correct them all. I do not believe that the Bible was somehow "lost" and was therefore re-inspired by the AV translators. I don't know of anybody who does believe that. 

Where did God promise to preserve his word in the original languages only? By God's seal of approval I mean his clear and unmistakable usage of the AV above all other competing texts. It is also evident that since the advent of the modern-version movement there has been a near universal apostasy in the English speaking world. One needs look only at the sorry state of "Christianity" in America today to see the fruit of rejecting the God-honored text that came out of the protestant reformation. 

 

Look, if you don't like Dr. Ruckman that's fine. We all have preachers we favor or don't enjoy much. That being said, it is wrong of you to mischaracterize his position and label it as "heresy". If believing the Bible that God has provided me as the perfect word of God is heresy, you can count me as a heretic. 

rm, please read post 141 & 143.  Thank you.  And then go here:    

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Okay, I hate to be the heavy in this, but this thread is not pro- or anti-Ruckman.  The conversation that has been going on for several pages is not inline with the OP...For those who wish to continue the discussion, please create another thread.  If you don't want to create another thread, that's fine.  But pro or anti Ruckman talk stops in this one...Thank you.

 

(and, Song - you can't tell someone they can't contribute to a thread...)

This wasn't about pro or anti Ruckman. It was about slandering a man.

Edited by ASongOfDegrees
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Some do indeed believe this, but not all. What do the ones posting here now believe in this area?

 

Check out all 5 points against the Bible, & decide what you believe.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I would like for this to be a civil discussion. The problem is that an IFB can mean many sort of things. For example, this website is and mostly IFB, but some say we are too IFB while other state we are not IFB enough. Where in your mind should Online Baptist/We draw the line for IFB?

​I do think a little different than some on OB, in which one thing I find to be hard to explain on OB -  the Bible I use.

In my opinion, as I do not use 'perversions' in my preaching and teaching, the explanation of 'what' I believe can be best explained

in the text I use, but the rules here keep me from clearly saying where I get my 'thinking'. I have been trying to 'smooth-over' the words

I use, to try and show in my own words, what I believe. There are times when members here say things that are not in the KJV text, yet they 'get'

a certain meaning from the text which mine says in it's text. So I would like to see the rule about 'KJV only' changed to 'KJV and previous

English versions of the 'proper' line of Bibles, such as Tyndale, Coverdale, Great, Bishops, and Geneva Bibles'. I believe it would deepen

our understanding of the text, and reveal some interesting discussions on real 'biblical' teachings. I will still be here whether or not that happens.

I know some will say it brings confusion into the realm, but I disagree, it will solidify what we truly believe.

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Sometimes I feel that non IFB saints, and Calvinists, and, A-millenialists, post their views on OLB just to antaganize us and get converts  to their agenda. They do not really want an honest discussion. We need a solid Statement of Faith. One of the reasons why some of the discussions degenerate into rancor, ill-feeling and dislike is that some folks that are in the forums are not true IFB and they do not want to be. They are leavening OLB with there non-biblical beliefs.

Also, I do think that you should consider someone joining OLB to state there church name. If they are not near a local IFB church than they need to give the name of the previous IFB church they sere a member of.

 

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Sometimes I feel that non IFB saints, and Calvinists, and, A-millenialists, post their views on OLB just to antaganize us and get converts  to their agenda. They do not really want an honest discussion. We need a solid Statement of Faith. One of the reasons why some of the discussions degenerate into rancor, ill-feeling and dislike is that some folks that are in the forums are not true IFB and they do not want to be. They are leavening OLB with there non-biblical beliefs.

Also, I do think that you should consider someone joining OLB to state there church name. If they are not near a local IFB church than they need to give the name of the previous IFB church they sere a member of.

 

Alan,

 

I think that we deal with the trolls very well. I say let them come, there is always the chance that they will see some validity in the IFB stand for truth. After all, how can we stand for the truth if we never have an opportunity to preach it? I think it a good thing that we have visitors like this so that we can point out their errors and put forth the truth of the IFB position.​

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So I would like to see the rule about 'KJV only' changed to 'KJV and previous

English versions of the 'proper' line of Bibles, such as Tyndale, Coverdale, Great, Bishops, and Geneva Bibles'. I believe it would deepen

our understanding of the text, and reveal some interesting discussions on real 'biblical' teachings. I will still be here whether or not that happens.

I know some will say it brings confusion into the realm, but I disagree, it will solidify what we truly believe.

That's not going to happen, Genevan...

Concerning the Scriptures:

We believe that every word of the scriptures was given by inspiration of God and that every word of of the scriptures has been preserved by his divine power from the tainting of man thus retaining their inspired character in its entirety.
We therefore hold the scriptures to be the foremost authority for faith and practice and reject every doctrine or teaching contrary to the teachings of the 66 books of scripture as nOT of God and false. We believe that the revelation of scripture was completed with the book of Revelation. Online baptist holds that the King James Bible is Gods preserved word for the English speaking peoples and does nOT permit using OTher versions on the forum. We reject the teaching of the double inspiration of theKJV and hold that the KJV retains the original divine inspiration of the scriptures through faithful translation and Gods divine preservation rather than being re-inspired in the English language in 1611.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

First United Holy Christian Congregational Assembly of Latter Day BaptiPresbyMetholic Adventists, Inc.

​These days I actually wouldn't be surprised to see such a church spring up!:blink:

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First United Holy Christian Congregational Assembly of Latter Day BaptiPresbyMetholic Adventists, Inc.

​Ha! If the liberals had their way it would also include...

First United Holy Christian Congregational Assembly of Latter Day BaptiPresbyMetholicSuni Adventist-Shias, Inc.

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Saylan,

Thank you for reinterating the position of OLB on the King James issue. I personnally appreciate it very much and commend you for your stand.

Old Fashioned Preacher, that was hilarious!

I still feel that these trolls that get into these discussions  to push their own non-IBF positions are doing harm to honest and sincere IFB's. Calvinism, A-millenialsim, amd any form of 'Replacement Theology' to most IFB's are heretical doctrines and cause serious division among the brethren. Since these types of saints do not activley soul win converts they draw their converts from their non-biblical 'Bible' studies. And, that is the main reason they are on the OLB forum.  

 

​Sadly, there are many IFB's teaching a form of Replacement Theology that don't even realize that they are.
I'm not speaking in terms of Israel being replaced by the Church, the Bible clearly makes distinction between the two factions.  The Church is not Israel.

However, a great many IFB's have been teaching different forms of  Replacement Theologies.  We talked about one of those replacements in PM a while back. 

When IFB's teach or preach their opinions or their traditions as being fact when they are in clear contradiction to what is written in God's Holy Word, then they are teaching a form of a Replacement Theology.  Replacement Theologies are more prevalent in Churches today, (not just IFB, but all denominations across the board) than most are willing to admit... and it is mind-boggling. 

And so many cannot see the truth written in God's Word because they have been conditioned to believe a lie.

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We also have to acknowledge the difference between a true troll, one who joins a forum for the sole intent of causing trouble, and those who join a forum with good intent but happen to have some differing views.

As SFIC pointed out, one of the big problems among IFB is the prevalent teaching of opinion as fact.

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That's not going to happen, Genevan...

​It is still what I would like.

I knew when I stated such, it would be denied, yet I feel better 'verbalizing' it.

Many don't understand that when they read something in the KJV and acknowledge it as fact, it was more than likely already

written in the Geneva Bible. Thus making what God said in the Geneva just as equal as the KJV. Yet there is much in the 'perversions'

that do the opposite. The older text of the 1560 does nothing but lift the Lord and his truth high, whereas the 'perversions' downgrade

the Lord and his truth. Equalizing the Word of God used earlier than the KJV, with the modern 'perversions' downgrades God's ability

to preserve his word continuously from Davids day to ours, since most will say it was "Thou shalt preserve them from this generation forever"

as is spoken in David's day in Psalm 12. Or am I missing something?

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